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Site Admin, Skilled player (1236)
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MESHUGGAH wrote:
I can't jump neither at 1.0, 0.0, -1.0 ypos
You're watching the wrong value.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Player (170)
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Alyosha wrote:
That's cool! Nice find Koh1fds.
Thank you! Just curious. Is it works in Genesis version? Gonna try to do it edit: seems like it doesn't work
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Thanks for pointing out my low skilled mistake feos :) Uploaded movie of my first try that finishes the game 42 frames faster User movie #41937148763909575 edit: up to level 3 seems to be OK (unimprovable). List of tricks I'm trying/tried: 1. Doing the "camera border dashing" at 1st rat (what the TAS does at 2nd rat). a: It looks like the "flying dash" only works when the rat isn't on the screen, which is obviously impossible to do for the 1st rat. When it's not possible, the toad will use the "big kick" b: To get over the camera border, the camera needs to be rolling while doing the A part (edit 2 c: you can't do it reverse, because Rash will change to the "flying dash" state AFTER doing the simple "dash" state) Overall: need to recheck and optimize fastest strategy of moving our front toad (actual toad who is closer to the right side to roll the camera asap). Need to check how many times we can get Rash (green) over Zitz (orange whatever) Saved 1 frame somewhere with faster moving around post 2nd rat
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Make sure to also try the thing I found during the 1p warpless run:
In 3D levels, if you add U or D to the running pattern initialization (tap and hold L or R), you magically start running faster.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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While a simple UUU (UR, U, UR, R, R, R....) not enough, I did found a new magic trick. The first one was discovered by someone of the earlier TASes doing the "R, LR, R, R, R" trick which depends on previous actions (I believe this works when rapidly running in one direction and changing direction mid-air with same speed, like in this TAS post asteroids scene, 1 rat on both sides). It's possible to further abuse this with...... UDLR, R, R, R, this instantly gives me 3px/f instead of the very slow running and 2px/f 2px/f whatever increments. Need to check if this helps me to get the next rat before their spawn timer (16~20~24 something like that is the frame rule) edit1: - 2860 rat spawn, but I only save 2 frames to get there ~2853, not enough to surpass the barrier - UDLR also works in 1st level, but I think we still need to wait the camera to scroll so we can get inside the warp point edit2: uploaded my 8 frames (50 frames compared to published TAS) faster movie User movie #41959449580433288 edit3: any wishes regarding entertainment? (music sync, movement, before payload scene)
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Is it possible to hit rats that falling from the top by headbutting pretty low?
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Even if we could, you can't cancel dashing, leaving you in a falling state without the ability to jump back from void.
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When you do that last part of "out of bounce trick" at the beginning of terra tubes - sometimes you can get so one of the helicopter things despawns. If you get that despawn then there could almost no lag frames at the last part of the climb. But i don't know how exactly do that and how much time it costs. That can possible save some time. Current warpless tas gets ~80 frames of lag on that last part of the climb https://i.imgur.com/ekq1lPf.png
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Sorry for double post, but i wounder if this can be done on real console. When i tried this on real console i get much less object spawn. Maybe i'm just get unlucky http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/43343010419094589 Link to video
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Oh. I've commented on the movie. Regarding the video: so if one would want to recreate it without any tool... it will be very hard. But let's say someone is motivated enough. 1P no TAS help: 1. You need to get the jet and either fall through the ground (didn't found the video of it) or die (as TMR does) 2A. You can experiment as Koh1fds did with using the pause. Pausing only possible on non lag frames, so even if you are the king of button mashing, it's literally impossible to pause on the very first non lag frame, unpause, do 1 frame of input, pause... So you are more efficient with at least pressing pauses more often. The idea is letting the game roll out his own values (pointer and objects) and replaying the pause unpause thing. Also a side note, that holding a button won't be processed for the next frame. So "T,A,A,TA,A,A,T" will result in the memory corruption part as a simple A for that frame when pause went off. It's more impactful if you press a different button each time you unpause. 2B. Depending on how you ended up, most of the time you are out of luck because you can't abuse that much while riding the jet. However as the time goes, you can get in to different game logics, helping you to "recover" without resetting. 2C. Because how the game works, the ammount of time paused and buttons pressed BEFORE suiciding also manipulates things. I wonder what would happen, if you press only 1 button combination right at the 1st non lag frame and holding it, so at least you can manipulat 1 object that could lead to a convenient GEG. Combinations that easy to pull off and has something to help: BUR - B, Up, Right, not that useful, but helps you in "dying", giving you a chance to avoid/delay getting in to the "jet" game flow (riding a jet) BUL - same but with left Unfortunately, the best combinations require you to press UD or LR.
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The problem is when i do this on real console (AV Famicom + Everdrive) i get less variety of things spawn then on fceux. Also if i get clinger winger boss spawn (or some other bosses) on fceux - game crashes, but on console everything is ok - like boss music plays and i can control toad. So i assume this may not work on real console or on this combination AV Famicom + everdrive. edit: I did it on console from everdrive's save state. It's really really hard to do, but seems like not impossible Link to video edit2: I did it in a run Link to video
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New setup was found Now it's possible to get sub 1 minute in SDA timing Link to video
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Why do I have a feeling that he manipulated the final boss, which is actually insanely hard without tool assistance? Some comments maybe useful for RTA: - P1 and P2 is different right before and after doing the jet death glitch. This means that one could be easier to pull of. - there are 2 buttons I know that isn't advised to press after respawn: L and B. L (left) can fix the glitch (restoring original game logic) if it was pressed within the first 5-10 frames after respawning. B can kill you and/or remove objects (jet). - while it's a bit cumbersome, you can try and hold the pause button right when you die (so you get 4 lag frames before respawn) and then input your stuff by holding down the buttons and unpause the game using the other joystick. This way you have much higher success in stepping 1 frame at a time instead of trying to press the pause button on 1 joystick (pause down, pause up, pause down is 60) which is very unlikely.
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Original idea was: 1. Get that glitch when stage keeps scrolling and toad didn't actually die 2. At some point of the stage game start glitchin again. If i start "scrolling the stage glitch" from particular Z position for Zitz this happens close to the end of the stage. If you press any buttons it doesn't affect whats going on there (at least visually). But if you press pause it affects glitches. So you mash pauses and hope that it works. Looks like TGR did the same with Rash, but game start glitchen again much earlier and you don't have to wait to end of the stage. I tried to do it on real console and game start glitching at exactly the same point with Revolution flash being the first visible effect as in his video. I don't know why i have to press any buttons (except pause) if it doesn't affect what's going on at least visually LUL edit: I'm not that good at debugging and all, but maybe when you did it for 2 players your toads was considered like free to move. But when i did that "scrolling the stage glitch" Zitz get's stuck in death animation on bike at the bottom of the screen and that's why buttons presses does nothing. Because he can't move at all. Maybe it's not the same for Rash.
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https://www.twitch.tv/konatain/clip/RefinedTameWhaleNononoCat Very cool glitch. I never saw something like it
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^ - Do you mean that "player unable to jump high enough"? Probably can't turn it to be useful, has something to do with orange one. No inputs available. - Or do you mean that "enemy dies without touching"? It's probably because of scrolling the camera vertically while he was moving upwards.
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I mean "enemy dies without touching" I was thinking it have similar nature as that "getting the stick" glitch.
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The glitch stick requires many lag frames to make it spawn, so it's unrelated to this. Still think it's because what I said, vertically moved the camera in the right time the enemy also moved.
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I re-watched it on x0.25 speed and it's clear that robot starts moving weirdly at the exact moment when one Toad trows another Toad (even before camera starts moving up). I still think it's the same nature as Yellow Toad Stick glitch, because that glitch also can cause enemies to attach to each other or enemies can get sticks randomly or enemies can change their palettes. Like this famous green snow man with a stick So it feels like that Yellow Toad causes some kind of corruption of object properties / flags. Also, it's questionable how many lag frames you need. I spawned a stick after only like 3-5 frames of lag. Maybe it's possible to do that with only 1 frame Also, if it was cause by camera then something like that should be noticed by speedrunners very soon, but it wasn't. So assume it wasn't noticed because speedrunners uses Green Toad and this glitch was caused by Yellow Toad Object corruption. But i don' know edit: So i assume, this happens because that robot got "attached" flag set or something like that (maybe lag frame happen much earlier and it got attached with out any noticeable effects). Very similar to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUI3aDTNiwo And then when toad trows another toad game also assumed that robot was also trowed (because it have "attached" flag) and then robot dies because it have like minimum hp. And that's why i think this glitch is cool Kappa edit2: https://clips.twitch.tv/ObeseHandsomeSharkKlappa I cut it better. No more questions. "Attached" flag was set while they was dealing with those yellow blobs. You can clearly see that green toad holds nothing. I just had wrong assumption how it was set. I trough it was direct corruption caused by yellow toad
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Back when Ti_ and I were studying the stick glitch, we found out the main reason for it: the game processes object slots on 2 directions, from first to last and on the next frame from last to first. This is done to make them blink every frame to overcome sprite limit (and maybe for some other reason too). If the process is interrupted for one frame, some flags can carry over to unrelated objects. Lag helps with this, but the main trigger seems to be the second player: he was not tested too thoroughly and inherited more bugs that the first player. I don't know how exactly he influences flag corruption, and it's mostly just broken sprites, but sometimes things get nasty.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Err too many notes. Reiterating again. - Glitch stick: can't be done without lag frames. Requires some lag frames. It's not about the number of but how hard it impacts. - "Battletoads & Double Dragon - New Glitch with second Player": I'm not really sure which aspect is new in this. Here's feos very old video with double grabbing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycqsfIOniZg Maybe you meant the "empty grabbing"? It's also has been discovered, dunno who posted it, Aglar, feos, PJ, etc... Also can't watch that twitch video in full frame rate, so I will say your reasons seems plausible.
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Hey! I have discovered glitches in Battletoads: you play with very many bugs, I see anyway, hehe ... But did you know that you can glitch through the walls (?) that are on level 4, as well? I started to record on track 3; sorry about that... It's because I could not lower the speed if I did not have a recording mode on, and it would be impossible for me to play again through that segment in level 3 with .... Well, whatever kind of vehicles you drive. If you get bored, simply fast forward through it. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/55446175984629643 Besides, you can glitch the rope on level 2 by holding up+down one pretty much "teleport" down; be careful though!.... If one hold it to long, one die, Just tap once on up+down to do it. Moderator edit: I moved your posts here. Please use the main game thread for discussing new research. — moozooh
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Good, now please reach the level end sooner than our movie does.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Good, now please reach the level end sooner than our movie does.
Yeah, or we cooperate with this. I have good and bad news; the most common is to start with the boring news... Okay, so the game seems to be very sensitive to glitches; slightest frame with an input it don't like, can cause the game to crash!! .... 'have no idea what's up with that, but it seems to be random. Now, the good news is that I have learned how to use TASstudio, so maybe one can bypass that. I recorded a run from first level to the second, just to give you an idea what I'm about. It would be nice with feedback. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/55466182383926603
Post subject: 2 Players Warpless
Lobsterzelda
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Hi everyone. So, i've started working on a TAS of Battletoads 2 players warpless to obsolete the current movie. I just finished the first level of the game, and made a comparison encode here showing my movie and the published movie synced at the start of level 1 and side by side: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCHkBhCppMA&feature=youtu.be I lose about 2 seconds on the screen right before the boss, which I'm planning to redo. However, what confuses me is that I also lost about a second before that point throughout the beginning of the level. If anybody has any suggestions/ideas on what I should do to improve things in my WIP, I would greatly appreciate it
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