Here we go again. This movie is 982 frames / 00:16.34 seconds faster than the current movie. Almost all of the savings come from a new exploit that ktwo found. By jumping into an exit, it's possible to save up to 35 frames per screen. Typically, the player runs to the exit and then holds either up or down for a long time until the game transitions to the next screen. By jumping before the exit, the player can start holding up or down earlier.
Don't worry about the rerecord count. The movie is mostly edited from my previous work.
NumberScreenFormer HPCurrent HPTotal Frames AheadNotes
11-119190On every screen that has a door that Goldmoon can jump into, there should be 35 frames saved. Goldmoon is already in the doorway on the first screen.
21-2161943The warrior was one of the worst enemies in the old run because he caused both a significant delay and -3 HP. But after waiting a few frames for better RNG, Goldmoon is able to jump clean through him.
31-3141867Because the RNG changed, I waited an extra 11 frames to get a good pass through the warrior. But the extra HP can save time near the end of the game.
41-41418102Attacking the dwarf is definitely the best method on this screen. Attacking allows Goldmoon to jump much earlier. Attacking also means no HP lost.
51-51218139Although I didn't get the ideal RNG in which the bozak doesn't shoot, the RNG that allows Goldmoon to duck is good compared to the RNG with the unavoidable shot.
61-61218173I wish every screen were a free shot at a jump like this one.
72-11218210I finally got the perfectly clean run through the troll.
82-21218245I had to wait 3 frames because of perfectly mistimed projectiles blasting out of the pit. Jumping into the teleportation is a little weird because it seems like I didn't lose any frames, but I give those frames back when the next screen loads.
92-31016288The RNG is better than the last run. I get one arrow without any delays.
102-4815319Here the RNG is a little worse, but I lose only -1 HP instead of -2.
112-5815354There's no enemy here, and so I save the expected 35 frames.
122-6815389The bozak's behavior is the same as previous attempts.
132-7713402I can do this screen 11 or so frames faster, but it leads to absolutely terrible RNG on 2-8, and 2-8 is the most important screen in the game. I tried to hide the delay in the jump at the end of the screen.
142-87134362-8 remains one of the all-time bottleneck points in TAS history. The RNG is killer. The menu trick requires advancing past the first flame. RNG was perfect on the previous TAS thanks to incredible coincidence. This time I got perfect RNG again, but I had to manipulate it with the delays in 2-7.
152-9713492Perfect luck! Both the dragon and the exit cooperated without any manipulation needed.
162-10713494Unfortunately, since Goldmoon has to jump over the last pit before jumping into the exit, there is insufficient space to save significant time.
173-1713529The spider is harmless, and so I save 35 frames.
183-2713563This screen is the easiest of the 3 dragon encounters.
193-3713598The spider just dances.
203-4713633Fortunately the two doors are far enough apart to get the full benefit of jumping.
213-5713667Another screen where nothing happens.
223-6612702As usual, this warrior is annoying and unfriendly to RNG.
233-769745Here's where the extra HP starts to pay off. I can take damage from the troll rather than use a slower attack. I couldn't find great RNG, but 8 frames saved is better than nothing.
243-869779My favorite kind of screen—nothing happens.
253-969809The dragon's RNG changed. It took the aggressive fire-breathing approach, and so Hold Person hit it 12 frames later than last time. After some timing manipulation, I cut it down a little, but it's still not clean like before.
263-1069846There are enemies here but they do nothing.
273-1157881This screen is the "real" spider. It is impenetrable. I have to attack it.
283-1257915This spider is fake.
293-1356955This troll doesn't have very friendly RNG, but I saved 5 frames at least.
303-1415982In order to save frames at the exit, I had to use Hold Person on the troll guarding the exit so that Goldmoon could jump. Theoretically, Goldmoon could jump clean through the troll into the exit, but it wasn't happening for me.
314-115982There are no more doors. Gameplay ends after exiting the menu.
EndEnd15982I don't believe that there's any benefit to using up more HP. I don't recall using any slower methods to preserve HP.
The idea for a good game is lurking beneath the surface here. The platform-action RPG style resembles a Zelda II dungeon, and the variety of playable characters is still seen today in the Curse of the Moon series. However, Heroes of the Lance fails because it is too short and linear, the controls are limited and unresponsive, and collisions are totally unpredictable. But with all the slow door transitions removed now, at least the movie is a little more entertaining.

Truncated: Judging.
Truncated: I should have set this back to New when I left a while back, but I forgot. Sorry.
Accepting as an improvement to the current movie.
fsvgm777: Processing.


TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15570
Location: 127.0.0.1
nymx
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2232)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 930
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Wow, great discovery. Its amazing how techniques like this can remain hidden. Since your last submission of this game, I've become a fan of how detailed your work has been. Very sizable cut, and great job. Yes vote.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Active player (251)
Joined: 8/10/2008
Posts: 116
Like in my reply for the previous submission, I need to start by saying that my contribution has been to provide ideas here in the forum. I haven't actively worked on this TAS. Very nice job. Awesome that you managed again to get a clean fire gauntlet and the room after as well! Everything in this run makes sense in my eyes. I did quick spot checks in a few rooms that raised question marks after watching. However, I couldn't find any improvements that didn't impact e.g. the health. As far as I can see, this run includes all known time savers and appears globally optimized, based on today's knowledge. But again, a thorough understanding of the hit mechanics would probably open the door to a few more frames to be saved. Arc, I finally got the RTA run I was looking for yesterday (4:45). That means I will stop playing this game. The chances of me finding anything new from now on are therefore pretty low. Since I'm not aware of anyone else actively playing this game, you can probably catch your breath from this game for a while now. :-)
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (814)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
nymx wrote:
Since your last submission of this game, I've become a fan of how detailed your work has been.
Thanks, I enjoy planning everything in advance. When I first started this game, I thought that the map/route was going to be overwhelmingly complex. It was kind of disappointing to realize that Floor 1 is actually pretty small, and the rest of the game is almost totally linear.
ktwo wrote:
I couldn't find any improvements that didn't impact e.g. the health. Arc, I finally got the RTA run I was looking for yesterday (4:45). Since I'm not aware of anyone else actively playing this game, you can probably catch your breath from this game for a while now. :-)
The TAS in RTA time is about 4:24 now, yeah? 4:45 is excellent. I tried one RTA attempt for fun and got 5:40. I appreciate that you helped lower the TAS time. Any minor timesavers before the critical 2-7 to 2-9 section probably wouldn't matter because of the RNG. There may be a few theoretical frames to save with better overall RNG on Floor 3.
Active player (251)
Joined: 8/10/2008
Posts: 116
With the RTA timing method (based on SDA's "character control" timing defintion), the TAS time is more like 4:35. Before the "jump to door" trick was found, I got the time down to 5:02, which was ~10s slower than your previous TAS. So the new run is roughly equivalent, just with the jump trick added. Before closing out, I'd like to write down a few memory addresses. Not that they're particularly difficult to find, but I don't think most of them have been mentioned before and might therefore save someone a few minutes of searching. $59 - Character's x-position on the screen $6E - The screen's x-position $BC - Goldmoon's HP (I think you've already mentioned this in one of your previous submission comments) $35B - x-position of Goldmoon's hitbox $380 - Protection from evil timer $383 - Global timer that's reset at the start of every attempt. I believe this provides entropy to the RNG. It also seems to directly control the upwinds in 2-2. As far as I can tell, the upwinds are therefore not possible to manipulate and the stop you had to do was just a consequence of the time it took to arrive there. $3A9 - Temple timer (room 4-1). Not directly relevant. However, it's easy to confirm that it's not possible to speed up the ending sequence (at least not by any ordinary means).
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15570
Location: 127.0.0.1
This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [4252] NES Advanced Dungeons & Dragons: Heroes of the Lance by Arc & ktwo in 05:35.90