No, this isn't a Frame War.
This video aims to beat the hardest difficulty as quickly as possible. On hardest difficulty, the CPU is not going to fall for easy opening traps like the scholar's mate...Unless we exploit a glitch.
This movie uses the take back glitch to perform 2 moves in a row and allow for a "4 movie" checkmate.
In order to this, you must perform 3 moves past the intended move, take back 3 times during the cpu's turn, let the CPU make a move and then do another take back. It will now be the same position but your turn.
The CPU takes a LONG time to move, and a lot of the time savings in this move is around performing moves that avoid the cpu taking a "full cycle" move. All except one move are shortened in some way. This is done by doing things that allow obvious moves such as checking the king, hanging a queen, and doing generally terrible moves.
Believe it or not, luck is manipulated in this movie. When performing the take back glitch, the queen is hanging. However, it is quite likely the CPU still makes a full cycle decision. If you take back on the correct frame, it will get it to somehow see the hanging queen sooner and save several minutes of thinking.

Ground Rules

There is a lot of chicanery possible in this version of the game. In order to better define "hardest difficulty" some ground rules have to be established. This movie adheres to the following rules:
  • Level 5 difficulty (the highest)
  • 3D at all times (This promotes unique strategies compared to standard chess as animations have to be considered)
  • No pressing start to force the CPU to move (I'd call this fair game on lowest difficulty, but it destroys the notion of beating the most difficult CPU)
  • 1 player vs CPU at all times (who would just pick 2 CPUs just to lower input time???)
  • Take backs are allowed, obviously

History

I collaborated with Dacicus a long time ago on the proof of concept of this idea. That resulted in a 30 minute movie. This movie is significantly faster by reworking the moves to minimize CPU thinking.

Notes

I tried variations of this mate with 1. e3, or moving the queen to f3 or h5 on move 2, but this ended up the fastest that I found.

Entertainment value

It's not 43 days of driving in a desert but this is just about the most boring possible TAS to watch.

adelikat: Replaced movie file with one that is 5917 frames faster. Used a 2+2 takeback pattern instead of 3+1 so that the required CPU move is on Kxf7 which is the fastest CPU move. Also this new movie uses NesHawk.

arkiandruski: Claiming for judging.
arkiandruski: After discussing with the other judges, we have decided that 3d mode counts as a different mode of play under our rules. We can tell that the mode introduces some unique challenges which change the gameplay, mostly centered around reducing the animation time.
We have also decided that this run is hardest difficulty and the decision to let the AI think until fully ready is a way to enforce the hardest difficulty. As such accepting to Standard.

despoa: Processing...


TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15577
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #7718: adelikat's NES Battle Chess "3D Pieces, Level 5" in 11:27.48
PLANET
He/Him
Joined: 1/3/2018
Posts: 73
Better cheating glitching than that of some niemann guy. Yes vote! : )
Post subject: you gotta read the sub notes
eien86
He/Him
Judge, Skilled player (1873)
Joined: 3/21/2021
Posts: 262
Location: Switzerland
Not the most exciting encode, but I voted yes. Why? well, if you read the submission notes you'll see this movie contains most of what makes TASing interesting. The take back glitch is cool, yes; but finding the set of moves that (a) brings you closer to a checkmate, and (b) forces the CPU to take quicker decisions is to me what took this movie across the finish line. [INSERT JOKE ABOUT HANS NIEMANN CHEATING HERE]
Editor, Expert player (2073)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
IIRC, this TAS is easily beaten by ~1m30s, somewhere on this forum.
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3573)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
FractalFusion wrote:
IIRC, this TAS is easily beaten by ~1m30s, somewhere on this forum.
Ah, this: https://tasvideos.org/Forum/Posts/108220 Very clever, looks like 2 take backs + 2 take backs avoids the computer thinking for one more move, I'll make an updated version
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Editor, Expert player (2073)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
adelikat wrote:
FractalFusion wrote:
IIRC, this TAS is easily beaten by ~1m30s, somewhere on this forum.
Ah, this: https://tasvideos.org/Forum/Posts/108220 Very clever, looks like 2 take backs + 2 take backs avoids the computer thinking for one more move, I'll make an updated version
For a moment, I thought no one actually wanted to take the credit that I was practically giving away for free. Cool, it's yours.
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3573)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
FractalFusion wrote:
adelikat wrote:
FractalFusion wrote:
IIRC, this TAS is easily beaten by ~1m30s, somewhere on this forum.
Ah, this: https://tasvideos.org/Forum/Posts/108220 Very clever, looks like 2 take backs + 2 take backs avoids the computer thinking for one more move, I'll make an updated version
For a moment, I thought no one actually wanted to take the credit that I was practically giving away for free. Cool, it's yours.
It's funny, and embarassing, that I missed this movie of yours by simply not reading the entire thread. I remembered Dacicus' TAS and found it and began working to improve it. Your move order is exactly what I stumbled on too. I redid the movie, it's now 115 frames slow than your, that I am confident is emulation differences based on where the frames are lost. I used quicknes so I can fast forward through painfully long thinking times, I'll have to redo with NesHawk to see what happens there. I also want to look for more possibilities as well, so I am not ready to update this movie. Your words worry me that you are upset, but I am not sure. I didn't mention authorship, but now that I have redone the movie, I see it is the same moves and take backs. I would not feel comfortable with this movie, as is, being a sole authorship of mine.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Editor, Expert player (2073)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
adelikat wrote:
Your words worry me that you are upset, but I am not sure. I didn't mention authorship, but now that I have redone the movie, I see it is the same moves and take backs. I would not feel comfortable with this movie, as is, being a sole authorship of mine.
I'm fine with whatever you decide. Also I assume you are making the TAS on your own, so it is yours to claim.
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3573)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
Replaced the movie file with an updated version. New version uses the 2+2 takeback strategy, also moved to NesHawk for better accuracy and quicknes has a lot of extra lag. This movie is 14 frames slower than Fractal's but I confirmed it is all emulation differences. All frame differences were in screen transitions where no input is happening.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Editor, Expert player (2073)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
I tried some other strategies but was not able to find anything faster. I assume you did similarly.
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3573)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
Yes, I tried a number of things, and I should document them here for future reference. 1) Lose a turn, probably not helpful but worth trying. You can play your first move, then do a take back during the CPU turn. It will now be the opening board position but black is going first. 2) Play as black. 3) Variations using e3 4) Absurd moves early on in hopes of more moves with more take backs but no long waits. This submission manages to only have one "long wait" with 2. Nf6, being over 11k frames, vs 5k on 3.Nxh5 as the next longest. Some moves are even around 1k or 3k. In theory, there is potential to do a few short moves instead of one long one, but nothing I tried worked out. It would help if this game had at least some opening book theory, but alas.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Editor, Expert player (2073)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
I was just thinking now if there are any particular set of goals that would make a Battle Chess TAS more interesting. If, for example, I just made a TAS forcing CPU moves all the time, would that be more interesting? At least it would take like 1/10 the time of this TAS. Also, is there any reasonable interpretation of "100%" that would make sense with this game?
Editor, Expert player (2073)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
I'm currently exploring how long it would take to beat the CPU on hardest difficulty without using glitches (i.e. legitimately). I figured that at some point we're going to have to stop being cheaters.
Editor, Expert player (2073)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
In case you need to do any testing on the hardest difficulty (the CPU take a really long time sometimes), you can use my form-based Lua script to help with this. I used it to make a (not very useful) Stockfish vs Battle Chess TAS (in my userfiles somewhere). Note that Stockfish is non-deterministic so other attempts at using Stockfish to beat Battle Chess may differ. Also QuickNES is reasonably accurate for this game. The CPU thinking time is virtually the same and the only difference is NesHawk is slightly faster on some screen transitions (at the beginning of the game, and also when using capture animations). So you can optimize it on QuickNES and then make the final movie on NesHawk. Although probably everyone uses QuickNES anyway.
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15577
Location: 127.0.0.1
This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [4987] NES Battle Chess "3D Pieces, Level 5" by adelikat in 11:27.48
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3573)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
FractalFusion wrote:
In case you need to do any testing on the hardest difficulty (the CPU take a really long time sometimes), you can use my form-based Lua script to help with this. I used it to make a (not very useful) Stockfish vs Battle Chess TAS (in my userfiles somewhere). Note that Stockfish is non-deterministic so other attempts at using Stockfish to beat Battle Chess may differ. Also QuickNES is reasonably accurate for this game. The CPU thinking time is virtually the same and the only difference is NesHawk is slightly faster on some screen transitions (at the beginning of the game, and also when using capture animations). So you can optimize it on QuickNES and then make the final movie on NesHawk. Although probably everyone uses QuickNES anyway.
Yeah, QuickNES is what I used to refine strategies and NESHawk once I knew what I wanted to do. I'm not sure how interesting a non-glitched run is, as it doesn't do much to set it apart from any other chess game. But I would be curious what you come up with.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects