Submission Text Full Submission Page
  • 1 standard controller connected
  • using an empty GCI folder as the save location (edit: oh great, the TASvideos parser thinks it starts from Sram. It doesn't)
  • forgoes time saving... swinging?
  • has kind of an enormous problem (skip to the bottom)
So, Spider-Man 2 - you already know from previous TASes that this game is known for its incredible swinging mechanics, which are still my favorite of any Spider-Man game to this very day.
Now hear me out... what if we just, didn't use them? At all? How would you do the Mysterio section? How would you beat the Mega Time requirements of races? In fact, how do you move quickly AT ALL? It's impossible, right?
...right?
Actually, no. You can beat the entire game without swinging even a single time.

Moving Quickly

First things first - how do you move quickly without swinging? It's quite simple - wallrun! By running sideways on a wall and immediately releasing a fully charged jump, you can maintain a high speed... okay, I say "high", but it's about the same speed as swinging with no speed upgrades. This method of movement (we'll call it "wallbouncing") is simpler than swinging, with a much more defined skill cap - but the actual tricks necessary to complete the run are much more difficult without swinging.
It's also worth noting that there are a number of small techs you can use to enhance your wallrunning abilities.
  • If you pull the stick backward when you cross the corner of a building, with perfect timing and positioning, you can actually exploit the way the game handles wallrunning, and instantly begin wallrunning on the other side of the corner, turning it.
  • Similarly, if you stay away from a corner and then run on it, you can get a wallbounce that actually doesn't lock you to the wall, essentially meaning you can use the corner of a building to go at an oblique angle. For an example, go to 32:36 in the encode.
  • A "slyjump" (coined by user Slyfincleton, originally as a joke because the tech was thought to be useless) is performed by releasing a charged jump from a swing, crawl, or wallrun, and wallrunning a frame later, your jump will be stored into your wallrun - and when you fall from the wall, your jump will release and you'll get a lot of distance. However, doing this also puts spider-man into a strange airstate - if he wallruns after doing a slyjump, the wallrun will be extremely slow. However, if you punch in the air after a slyjump, it will fix this. This is why you see me randomly punching in the air at times.

Things you probably have questions about

"That was a swing!"

12:48 in the encode - you're probably thinking: "What the heck? That was a swing! You lied to me, unsub". And to that I say... no it wasn't. It was a webzip - a webzip is very different from a webswing. It does not increment the in-game swing counter, either. Additionally, webzips are required to beat the game if you can't swing.

"In the very first fight (1:26)... what the heck is even happening?"

So, this game has a mechanic called "spider-reflexes". It's the blue bar under your lifebar. When enabled, the world moves slower than spider-man, and many of spidey's attacks are replaced with much stronger versions. By activating this for just a few frames, I can press the attack button for as many attacks as I want to buffer, and then disable spider-reflexes. This means I can utilize these stronger attacks.
Furthermore, when your spider-reflexes bar is at about 97% or higher, you get a whopping 50% bonus damage on almost all of your attacks. Do you see where I'm going with this? Spider reflexes attacks are stronger than regular attacks, and by only turning on spider reflexes for very small intervals, you can get the damage bonus on top of them - allowing you to chunk enemies down in just a few quick strikes.
You can also cancel your current airborne attack or recovery by pushing against a wall, which allows you to melt enemies if you're beside a wall.

"What did you do to Rhino at 8:45?"

Alright, if an enemy is on the ground, and you try to hit them with an air attack, spider-man will do a spinning kick attack. This normally knocks the enemy into the air... but a number of enemies cannot be brought into the air, so you'll just spin kick them. If you push against a wall after a spin kick, you will cancel the recovery, allowing you to do ANOTHER spin kick... and as many as you want. Like I said, this only works on foes that are not brought into the air by a spin kick.

"Why are you grabbing coins/tokens, and why are you buying swing related upgrades?"

Every chapter of the game has requirements that must be met to progress. Some chapters actually require you to upgrade your swing speed to progress. Similarly, nearly every chapter requires you to collect some amount of hero points. Collecting secret tokens and hideout tokens award a whopping 250 points, so they're by far the fastest way to attain hero points.

"How the hell did you even do the Mysterio segment at 24:29?"

This game has poleswinging as a mechanic. The floating platforms leading up to the Statue of Liberty have poles on the edges of them, which can be poleswung on. Combining that with webzipping and charge jumps, you can make your way to the Statue of Liberty.
Then, the orbs on the "mothership" above the statue have massive homing zones. As in, if you punch within like 15 feet of them, you'll home in on them. Don't be fooled, this entire segment is extremely difficult - in fact, if you make any mistake, fall even once... your run is over, as it's impossible to get back up without swinging.
A lot of stuff from here can be used to explain almost any phenomenon you see throughout the video.

Mistakes

In typical Nate fashion, there are some mistakes in this TAS that cost probably around 10 seconds in total.
In chapter 3, there is some movement that could be improved just before reaching the date with Harry and MJ.
In chapter 7, I roll in the bugle, which probably loses a second (I did this because it was the only way I could get the bathroom spawn to work and didn't want to redo it; I wish I would have). Also in chapter 7, in the third prisoner round against Beck, one of the convicts gets glitched and doesn't enter the pit properly. At the end of the round, I yank him out and then bring him back in. This might not even lose any time (since I'm waiting for the other convicts to land in), but it looks sloppy regardless.
Although, I do use a new strategy for rounding up prisoners that saves a lot of time, since it prevents Beck from collecting anyone at all.
In chapter 8, I was only able to get the sniper to shoot the truck once, as opposed to twice in the any% TAS. This loses probably about a second.
In chapter 9, at about 25 minutes in flat, I go straight up on the pole swing. I probably didn't need to, losing a second or two.
In chapter 15, my method of defeating final Doc Ock was about 2 seconds slower than the any%.

An Actual Problem

There's one major problem you probably didn't notice. The game crashed. In chapter 15, the game crashes on the final hit of Doc Ock. The end cutscene just... doesn't play. Ever. I have absolutely no idea why this happened, and I couldn't reverse it without redoing a giant chunk of the TAS. So instead, I just spliced the end cutscene in. This means it probably won't be eligible to be posted to the TASVideos channel, but I decided to submit it anyway, just to see what'll happen.
EDIT: there is some kind of precedent for this, as [3822] DS Super Mario 64 DS "jumpless" by Adeal in 55:05.13 does not complete the credits.

Reference Run

If you want to see an RTA run for reference, check out Sly's current record.

ViGadeomes: Claiming for judging.

feos: Claiming for judging.


TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #9090: Natetheman223's GC Spider-Man 2 "Swingless" in 52:01.68
Dimon12321
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Not so bad, really. The pace keeps relatively fast. Yes vote
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
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Oh, another run of this game. Nice!
There's one major problem you probably didn't notice. The game crashed. In chapter 15, the game crashes on the final hit of Doc Ock. The end cutscene just... doesn't play. Ever. I have absolutely no idea why this happened, and I couldn't reverse it without redoing a giant chunk of the TAS. So instead, I just spliced the end cutscene in. This means it probably won't be eligible to be posted to the TASVideos channel, but I decided to submit it anyway, just to see what'll happen.
Is that a real bug, or an emulator bug? Is there any way to find out? Does this game normally crash? I can't recall that ever happening except going through the game long enough after using that Peter Parker at street bug.
Natetheman223
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jlun2 wrote:
Is that a real bug, or an emulator bug? Is there any way to find out? Does this game normally crash? I can't recall that ever happening except going through the game long enough after using that Peter Parker at street bug.
The truth is, I don't know. I have literally never heard of this happening, regardless of console or emulator. I've also completed the game numerous times on this version of dolphin before, with no problems with the ending.
I like 3D Spider-Man games.
Spikestuff
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Clearly to obsolete a "swingless" TAS would be a "webless" one.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
Natetheman223
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Spikestuff wrote:
Clearly to obsolete a "swingless" TAS would be a "webless" one.
I know you jest, but it's impossible. Webzips are the bare minimum webs needed to complete the game.
I like 3D Spider-Man games.
Spikestuff
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No~! SUFFER~!
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
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What an awesome TAS. I had no idea this was even possible.
Enter the Matrix is a piece of garbage but I'm gonna finish it if it kills me.
CoolHandMike
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You mentioned that you would have to redo a lot of the tas to not have the game crash after defeating Doc Oct. What exactly would have to be done to fix the tas so the end credits play?
discord: CoolHandMike#0352
Natetheman223
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CoolHandMike wrote:
You mentioned that you would have to redo a lot of the tas to not have the game crash after defeating Doc Oct. What exactly would have to be done to fix the tas so the end credits play?
That's the bad part - I have no idea just how far back I'd need to go, because I still have no idea what exactly caused the game to crash. I rolled back like 2 chapters and just played the game normally to the end, and it still crashed - so I'd need to go back at least that far, likely farther.
I like 3D Spider-Man games.
CoolHandMike
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I wonder if an ingame reset would fix whatever is going on. Have you tried to run the tas on different emulator versions to see if it is emulator related?
discord: CoolHandMike#0352
Natetheman223
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CoolHandMike wrote:
I wonder if an ingame reset would fix whatever is going on. Have you tried to run the tas on different emulator versions to see if it is emulator related?
I just gave the TAS a shot on the version prior to 17995 (so, 17994) and it still desynced (edit: I meant crashed) - which makes sense, it's literally one little commit difference. While it was playing though, I thought, "if a version change is big enough to fix a bug, it's probably going to cause a desync"... so I'm a little hesitant about spending 30 minutes to sit through the TAS on turbo in various dolphin versions. On top of that, I've completed the game normally, multiple times, on this version of dolphin, with no errors in the final cutscene. So it smells like this is just really, really bad luck.
I like 3D Spider-Man games.
Dimon12321
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Hello! I have verified the TAS. It syncs well, although I have one remark. The movie file I downloaded from the submission page is probably not suitable for publication. After you beat the final boss, the ending cutscene doesn't play, like in your encode video. All I see is a black screen with the fighting music playing on the background and periodical electricity clicks. Please, provide an update input file which reaches the actual ending!
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Natetheman223
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Dimon12321 wrote:
Please, provide an update input file which reaches the actual ending!
Submission Notes wrote:
There's one major problem you probably didn't notice. The game crashed. In chapter 15, the game crashes on the final hit of Doc Ock. The end cutscene just... doesn't play. Ever. I have absolutely no idea why this happened, and I couldn't reverse it without redoing a giant chunk of the TAS. So instead, I just spliced the end cutscene in. This means it probably won't be eligible to be posted to the TASVideos channel, but I decided to submit it anyway, just to see what'll happen. There is some kind of precedent for this, as [3822] DS Super Mario 64 DS "jumpless" by Adeal in 55:05.13 does not complete the credits.
I remember rolling the game back several chapters and playing it normally, only for it to still crash at the end - so there's no chance of me redoing a bunch of this to try and figure out why the end cutscene doesn't play. If it gets rejected, so be it; it's already been 4 months and I'm mostly over this by now.
I like 3D Spider-Man games.
Post subject: Dropping, but judged some parts so letting this as a reference.
ViGadeomes
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Hello there, sorry for this no news from my side, here is my incomplete judgement on it: Thank you Dimon12321 for this review ! The (game)/goal and the optimization is great for me. I really like the goal and the way you executed it there. The last thing for me is the end. To me, it's acceptable as it is, the last important action has been done. The author tried to fix the issue but the work to do so is too much for what it is and it's maybe an emulation bug... Even if it's a real crash, the last hit is made so the game is complete for me.
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The crash happens on 5.0-16793 (earliest I tired) all the way up to 2409-216. Dunno what that proves but it doesn't look accidental. Jos says it looks like an in-game crash rather than emulation problems, but it'd have to be debugged to tell for sure, and it's quite hard. I tried hitting different inputs after the crash, doesn't seem to matter judging by the audio.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

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