By this definition, it would be lowest time attack (boss) + relics.
Provided it use sram, I suppose I will use it as well.
Since the gameplay difference wont be very consequent with '1 relic", a run going for lowest room count might fall under alternative, or at worse "playground" provided the entertainment is likely going to be low.
Thanks again for the guidance.
So I plan on making a medievil "No DGS" TAS. It's been nearly 2 1/2 years since I made my all chalice TAS, and there are a bunch of new interesting developments in the game. I have a few concerns about the movie and one specific trick that would cause the run not to be submit able. I do still plan on making the movie whether or not it could be accepted. I think it would be a great addition to the site, even if it's classified as playground and or other. So basically there is this trick called the void launch which requires you to enter a certain level and then quit to the main menu. What this does is set an address value from 3 to 0 (0x00). The void launch is a trick that shoots you across the level Scarecrow Fields pretty much, the value indicates which direction it will eject you. The trick is used in RTA runs by entering the ghost ship level and then quitting game , starting a new game, and pretty much a run. Now if this would be allowed in any way shape or form to be used, how would I got about doing it? Would I use saveram, start the movie from the title screen? I honestly don't know the best way of going about this, but regardless the movie will be made. Thanks in advance for any help.
Void Launch vid0x00
How would starting from sram preserve the glitchy value ? if it survive somehow after booting up the bios (in the memory card) you just need to make a seperate verif movie to produce sayd sram.
If you actually meant a savestate I think thats not allowed.
That been sayd I think quiting your game to set the glitch is fine, real question is how slower or faster this will be compared to not starting a new game, if its slower then I guess its playground.
But hey im not a judge so thats just casual answer.
So I plan on making a medievil "No DGS" TAS. It's been nearly 2 1/2 years since I made my all chalice TAS, and there are a bunch of new interesting developments in the game. I have a few concerns about the movie and one specific trick that would cause the run not to be submit able. I do still plan on making the movie whether or not it could be accepted. I think it would be a great addition to the site, even if it's classified as playground and or other. So basically there is this trick called the void launch which requires you to enter a certain level and then quit to the main menu. What this does is set an address value from 3 to 0 (0x00). The void launch is a trick that shoots you across the level Scarecrow Fields pretty much, the value indicates which direction it will eject you. The trick is used in RTA runs by entering the ghost ship level and then quitting game , starting a new game, and pretty much a run. Now if this would be allowed in any way shape or form to be used, how would I got about doing it? Would I use saveram, start the movie from the title screen? I honestly don't know the best way of going about this, but regardless the movie will be made. Thanks in advance for any help.
Void Launch vid0x00
My thought is that it would have to be one continuous submission for Standard, meaning new game, then proceed to a certain level, quit to main menu, and then restart the game and play through to the end. The idea is that you are just modifying an address in ram and not unlocking content.
Although starting from a in game saveram or savestate would be acceptable to Playground : "Runs that start from an in-game save file (SRAM) or an emulator savestate must provide recreation instructions, ideally in the form of a verification file."
Thanks for the feed back you 2. I think this should be playground then. I would prefer to have it as 1 movie to not over complicate things . So to clarify it would be okay to Start New Game > In-game Cheat Code "unlock all levels" > Ghost Ship > Quit Game > Start Game. This does lose like about a minute over RTA, but of course I believe it will still be faster than the world record. I can of course do my best to make that empty minute of the run be as entertaining as possible haha. I am not at all personally concerned about the tas timing, but rather I am doing this movie to compare the main run itself to rta to see the limits of the category. I came into this sorta figuring that it would not be a standard submission, nor have I had to deal with something this odd before. I could also technically split the movies up after the fact now that I think about lol. When I was planning this movie about a year ago this trick did not exist, so it sort of threw a curve ball at me along with a bunch of procrastination.
- Anything regarding the cheat menu is disabled upon quitting game.
I think it's publishable to Alternative. The cheat code part makes it not eligible for Standard because that code removes a gameplay requirement instead of unlocking some feature unavailable otherwise.
Single-movie is IMO better because the setup is unique and inherent to this glitch, compared to simply unlocking in-game features as Mike said.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Sorry for asking stuff about sotn again but... I would like to put "bad ending" on my list and since you sayd low% would be standart wether I use sram or not, would this also apply ?
I cant fortell if it will have any other consequences than skipping dialogues at this point, but it is likely to be the only reason to use sram.
Thx in advance for answers.
Sorry for asking stuff about sotn again but... I would like to put "bad ending" on my list and since you sayd low% would be standart wether I use sram or not, would this also apply ?
I cant fortell if it will have any other consequences than skipping dialogues at this point, but it is likely to be the only reason to use sram.
Thx in advance for answers.
Bad ending is not a standard goal on its own, at least not yet. I don't see why this can't go to Alternative tho.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
In February, I submitted a 201 frame publication for Famidash. On February 28th, a new version of the game released, adding more content, and I created another submission for that version.
My question is, do I cancel the first submission? I’m going to be honest, I think the current publication is poor in quality. It isn’t optimized and there is little interesting playaround, despite the game offering a lot of opportunity for it. I’d like to have the 201 frame improvement accepted, as there would at least be an optimal TAS of version 1.1 before it gets obsoleted by the 1.2 TAS. Does the 201 frame improvement have any chance of getting accepted?
Additionally, will the version 1.2 TAS get accepted? Figured I’d ask since I don’t think I’ve seen any other examples of a game on TASVideos being given more content in an update, although I could be wrong. The 1.2 TAS is longer, but it’s more representative of the game in its current state (and more interesting than the 1.1 TAS in my opinion). Is there any sort of written policy on this?
I’d also hate to get pedantic, but the collectable coins in Geometry Dash are called “Secret Coins” in-game. Famidash technically doesn’t have a name for them, but I’d assume the same name applies, considering it’s a demake of the Geometry Dash. Is “main levels, all Secret Coins” a better branch name or is “main levels, all coins” still accurate?
Would “main levels” without the coins be accepted? When you collect a coin, you are forced to wait for it to get tallied on the score screen. Sure it’s technically fastest completion, but it doesn’t offer anything different from “main levels, all coins” other than intentionally missing the coins and getting free timesave at the score screen from it. The level route and skips are still the same.
Lastly, I’m working on an “all levels, all coins” TAS of the game. Is this an acceptable branch, or is just “all levels” preferable? I’m reusing my inputs from the “main levels, all coins” TAS I made to save time. Is this allowed? Frowned upon? Should I change the inputs in the main levels to make it more visually distinct from the existing submission I made? Should I just make a “custom levels, all coins” TAS instead?
Many thanks for taking a look at my many questions. I apologise if anything isn’t super clear here.
In February, I submitted a 201 frame publication for Famidash. On February 28th, a new version of the game released, adding more content, and I created another submission for that version.
My question is, do I cancel the first submission? I’m going to be honest, I think the current publication is poor in quality. It isn’t optimized and there is little interesting playaround, despite the game offering a lot of opportunity for it. I’d like to have the 201 frame improvement accepted, as there would at least be an optimal TAS of version 1.1 before it gets obsoleted by the 1.2 TAS. Does the 201 frame improvement have any chance of getting accepted?
Additionally, will the version 1.2 TAS get accepted? Figured I’d ask since I don’t think I’ve seen any other examples of a game on TASVideos being given more content in an update, although I could be wrong. The 1.2 TAS is longer, but it’s more representative of the game in its current state (and more interesting than the 1.1 TAS in my opinion). Is there any sort of written policy on this?
We have this in our rules:
Any release version or update patch of a game may be used, though you should be able to explain why you chose that version.
If there is a significant difference in content between the versions, there is a possibility we may allow both versions as separate publications. That said, I can't guarantee that version 1.2 wouldn't obsolete version 1.1 if all the content from v1.1 is seen in v1.2. I will state that 1.2 would likely be the prefered version (as the more complete version of the game) if we were only going to accept one of the versions for publication.
The current v1.1 TASon the workbench still can be accepted even if it would ultimately be obsoleted by a v1.2 run. (I've gone ahead and claimed both of the workbench runs). Assuming the v1.1 run is acceptable, I'll make sure to delay judgement on the v1.2 run until the updated v1.1 is published. That way, even if v1.2 does end up obsoleting the v1.1 runs, the obsoletion tree will show the better of the v1.1 runs as having been accepted/published.
I'll have to discuss with other staff regarding whether or not the v1.2 run should obsolete v1.1 or be split into a separate publication. If you haven't already, please explain, in detail, the differences betwee the versions in your v1.2 submission notes. That will help us as staff to better decide on what to do with the various versions of the game.
Walgrey wrote:
I’d also hate to get pedantic, but the collectable coins in Geometry Dash are called “Secret Coins” in-game. Famidash technically doesn’t have a name for them, but I’d assume the same name applies, considering it’s a demake of the Geometry Dash. Is “main levels, all Secret Coins” a better branch name or is “main levels, all coins” still accurate?
Either is valid in my opinion. If you feel that specifying "secret" is preferred, you can edit the submission yourself and change the goal name.
Walgrey wrote:
Would “main levels” without the coins be accepted? When you collect a coin, you are forced to wait for it to get tallied on the score screen. Sure it’s technically fastest completion, but it doesn’t offer anything different from “main levels, all coins” other than intentionally missing the coins and getting free timesave at the score screen from it. The level route and skips are still the same.
Potentially, though again, I can't guarantee. A no-coins/minimal coins run would likely be the fastest way to beat the game due to managing less time counting on the score screen. The improvements in time may only appear to occur on the score tally screens, but they would result from different gameplay. So it could be argued that getting the coins and beating the game as fast as possible is a different goal than just beating the game as fast as possible due to different gameplay optimization techniques.
It could also be noted that runs obbtaining coins aren't going for the baseline fastest possible optimization of the game (Standard Class) and would thus be Alternative goals; I'll bring this point of difference up with other judges when I bring up the version issue in staff chat as I'm able.
Walgrey wrote:
Lastly, I’m working on an “all levels, all coins” TAS of the game. Is this an acceptable branch, or is just “all levels” preferable? I’m reusing my inputs from the “main levels, all coins” TAS I made to save time. Is this allowed? Frowned upon? Should I change the inputs in the main levels to make it more visually distinct from the existing submission I made? Should I just make a “custom levels, all coins” TAS instead?
An "all levels" or "all levels, all coins" TAS would probably fall under our standard class definition for "full completion," and it would likely be acceptable along side a baseline "main levels" run. Re-using input is absolutely fine to do for overlapping content. Given how much we are about trying to optimize games here; it would seem odd to tell someone to do more work than necessary just to make overlapping aspects of two separate runs be slightly different visually, yet to also maintain the same level of optimization. Re-using the inputs saves you time and work!
As mentioned above, I can't say if a separation of publications between obtaining or foregoing coins would be the case; so I can't currently make a recommendation on "all levels" vs. "all levels, all coins" run.
Before I watch them because I don't remember the game, are there route differences compared to existing branches?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Came across this game <https://tasvideos.org/3513S> Super Adventure Rockman for PSX which has three discs, and decided to try tasing it. After switching to the second disc realized that the second disc straight up allows you to select "New Game" or "Continue" from the main menu. "Continue" allows you to keep your items and weapons from the first disc, but if you select "New Game" then you start with no items. However both options have the same starting point on the second disc. Now, here is the part where I am questioning things, and if this really should even be a single game.
Skipping straight to the third disc, and just completing that I consider to be incomplete normally, but here the main menu on the third disc says "New Game". Probably makes sense that it is necessary to go through all the discs to considered complete however.
Let's go with completing all the discs. But what does that actually entail here? I would like to tas from beginning to end, from the start of the first disc all the way to the end of the third disc. So as far as a stopping point when switching discs should it be the very next frame after I press fire to defeat the last enemy in the first disc? Should it be the very frame after the last save point? Or should it be after the credits? And yes, each of these discs has its own credits as though they are individual games.
Discs 1 to 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAjNCG51Hy0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEW0TSRWvPkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeLn3PGTVfY
Each disc has its own equipment and items that you do not even need to play the next disc. In addition to that each disc has its own credits. After starting each new disc there is a long intro video that explains the events of the previous disc(s). I have played other multidisc games and this is not typical. Usually what happens is there is a prompt of some sort to switch discs after saving, and that data is necessary to continue with the next disc. Here you could complete any disc from its start and get their own unique ending credit sequence. These act more like sequels than individual games it seems. Also each disc has its own episodic title as well https://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Super_Adventure_Rockman.
If you buy the game all three discs come together in a single package so that is one argument for it being a single game though. https://www.ebay.com/itm/204944303395
Questions
1) Are each of these discs individual completable games?
2) If not and if these should all be considered one long contiguous game, then at what point should I switch discs from 1 to 2, and from 2 to 3?
Before I watch them because I don't remember the game, are there route differences compared to existing branches?
Oh didn't notice the reply. Most likely the routes won't change compared to Any%. But gameplay will change a bit for X2 as it doesn't collect the arm upgrade which gives big boost to X's mobility. For Z4, I think gameplay will stay the same, and only the drop of Junk Armor that will show a bit of difference which will make the fights twice longer. Other than that, no other difference.
One question: for some reason, would this hack be accepted here? https://youtu.be/29C6oJp9CNA
In short, this is a hack made on top of Newer Super Mario Bros. Wii and it has the levels/map of Super Mario World. It's basically Super Mario World for the Nintendo Wii. However, version 1.0 (the original, which I have no idea who made) was full of bugs and weird things. So, I decided to create a version 1.1 of this hack myself, fixing everything I saw that was bad in the hack and it turned out quite interesting. Unfortunately, I couldn't change a lot of things, including the bosses and many other things, due to lack of knowledge.
Let's go with completing all the discs. But what does that actually entail here? I would like to tas from beginning to end, from the start of the first disc all the way to the end of the third disc. So as far as a stopping point when switching discs should it be the very next frame after I press fire to defeat the last enemy in the first disc? Should it be the very frame after the last save point? Or should it be after the credits? And yes, each of these discs has its own credits as though they are individual games.
1) Are each of these discs individual completable games?
2) If not and if these should all be considered one long contiguous game, then at what point should I switch discs from 1 to 2, and from 2 to 3?
What's the minimal required action in the previous disk that would properly continue in the next one? Is there any in-game prompt to swap a disk?
I think it makes sense to play them individually as separate goals, and then one continuous play as yet another goal since the game lets you carry over your stats.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
One question: for some reason, would this hack be accepted here? https://youtu.be/29C6oJp9CNA
In short, this is a hack made on top of Newer Super Mario Bros. Wii and it has the levels/map of Super Mario World. It's basically Super Mario World for the Nintendo Wii. However, version 1.0 (the original, which I have no idea who made) was full of bugs and weird things. So, I decided to create a version 1.1 of this hack myself, fixing everything I saw that was bad in the hack and it turned out quite interesting. Unfortunately, I couldn't change a lot of things, including the bosses and many other things, due to lack of knowledge.
We rely on third parties when judging hacks: ideally they need to be hosted on some well-known hack database (romhacking.net was an obvious option, https://romhack.ing/ is the successor). If you can submit the patch to them and they publish it, we will most likely accept a TAS of it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Let's go with completing all the discs. But what does that actually entail here? I would like to tas from beginning to end, from the start of the first disc all the way to the end of the third disc. So as far as a stopping point when switching discs should it be the very next frame after I press fire to defeat the last enemy in the first disc? Should it be the very frame after the last save point? Or should it be after the credits? And yes, each of these discs has its own credits as though they are individual games.
1) Are each of these discs individual completable games?
2) If not and if these should all be considered one long contiguous game, then at what point should I switch discs from 1 to 2, and from 2 to 3?
What's the minimal required action in the previous disk that would properly continue in the next one? Is there any in-game prompt to swap a disk?
I think it makes sense to play them individually as separate goals, and then one continuous play as yet another goal since the game lets you carry over your stats.
Since each of them can be played from start to finish independently it makes sense to me to treat them as separate games, and then create a multigame like Mega Man 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6 that allows for a run of all individual games with saves transferring between them.
It might be a good idea to formalise that more generally too. For example, we already have runs of Golden Sun GBA. As it stands, we could have a run of Lost Age without an existing save file and a run using a GS1 save with presumably max level characters and all items. But no combination of movies for the two games would be representative of how quickly it's possible to beat both games - even assuming the first game's route doesn't change at all, the second game would be faster than the no save run, but slower than the "max level" save run; and it's likely that doing some extra levelling or collecting some extra items in the first game would reduce the overall time taken (depending on goals etc.)
Wizardry (at least the Apple II versions) and Ratchet and Clank both have this kind of mechanic too, and that's before we even get into more modern series where this becomes more common.
Does debug left over unintentionally is considered a glitch in the context of glitchless?
More context:
Link to video
If you press triangle on the second controller the bridge breaks, saving quite some time over doing it the "leggit" way.
Does debug left over unintentionally is considered a glitch in the context of glitchless?
More context:
Link to video
If you press triangle on the second controller the bridge breaks, saving quite some time over doing it the "leggit" way.
It's still just an in-game code. It's only a glitch if you access this functionality without entering that code but through a glitch. Or of someone looks at decompiled game code and explains why it's actually unintended.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
The source code is indeed available, the most logical reason that it wasnt intentional is that all others debug features (in the code) are not accessible/deactivated.
That's not what I mean. We don't need to try to guess whether the input code was deliberately or accidentally left in. Looking at executable code for this trick is the way to know if the trick is even there. If the game checks for that specific button and breaks the bridge explicitly, then it's a debug/cheat feature. If the game is not supposed to do it but it happens due to some mistake in the programmed logic, then it's a bug.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Oh sorry, yes its in the source code, it checks you press the button (with second controller) and it break the bridge then.
Is this allowed for glitchless?
In-game codes that don't add gameplay don't belong to standard branches (which glitchless is), but are allowed in Alternative.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
improvements must be in gameplay to warrant obsoletion.
Cutscene are definitly not gameplay, does that mean theres no merit to avoid a cutscene in the end?
Say a cutscene last a minute, and you implement a technique/glitch that takes 30 seconds, and consenquently save 30 seconds of non-gameplay.
Did you save 30 seconds or lost 30 seconds of "gameplay"?
Taking this by the letter sound like just watching the cutscene would obsolete skipping it, which I suppose is not what you want for counting frames/differences.
