Posted: 2/19/2006 10:52 PM
Post subject: Flying Dragon: The Secret Scroll
Dimodae
Joined: 10/25/2005
Posts: 12
Has anyone played/tried a speedrun of this game? I don't think it was a very popular game (kinda figures since the controls were horrible) but it did feature a very early Fighting game-type action. I just want to see if I would have any help if I tried to speed run this game (I'm having a lot of trouble with the randomness of where the dots appear on the opponent and if it is possible to make the opponent not jump during the super hurrican kick). Any input would be appreciated! Thanks in advance.
Posted: 2/19/2006 11:08 PM
Randil
Skilled player (1882)
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2162
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Well, if you need help understanding how FCEU works or anything, or general tips and feedback, I can help out. But be warned, I have never played or even heard about this game. :) As for luck manipulation, it's easiest pulled of by performing attacks on different drames and such, but sometimes luck manipulation requires more powerful tools such as programs and checking into the RAM... Anyway, could you please post what you've done so far (if any) so I can take a look at it and give some feedback?
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Posted: 2/21/2006 2:32 AM
Dimodae
Joined: 10/25/2005
Posts: 12
Haven't recorded anything yet, still trying to figure out how to play the game now that I can do it frame by frame + savestates (haven't played it since the last time I played it on NES) so it might be a bit to get something out that resembles a speed run. Has anyone else even heard of this game?
Posted: 2/21/2006 10:13 AM
Brushy
Former player
Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1586
I tried it out a bit and found something, but I think you're already aware of these things. I'll list them anyway: Jumping is faster than walking and don't attack if it's not necessary because attacking slows you down. I'll wish you good luck, hope you'll get something done soon.
Posted: 3/13/2006 2:12 AM
Emptyeye
Joined: 12/5/2004
Posts: 60
More than just what's already been mentioned, the mindset I would take as far as the fighting scenes go is "Can I manipulate a red star to quickly appear on any enemies?" I know there's the one red star you hit in Elimination Round B to turn the third guy into a Tusk Soldier, the first opponent of the World Tournament sometimes gets one on his lower body, and maybe one other enemy sometimes gets one too. I don't know how the game is coded, though, so I don't know if you can make it appear on any other enemies at all, and if so, how quickly.
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Posted: 3/13/2006 5:33 AM
DefEdge
Joined: 6/5/2005
Posts: 64
Amazing! I was trying to remember the name of this game, and here you folks are talking about it. Someone must be reading my wavelength or something heh. Edit: So, are you going to do a 100% run (all scrolls, all crystal balls, etc) or are you going for one of the lesser endings?
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Posted: 3/13/2006 6:16 PM
mrsirjojo
Joined: 1/14/2006
Posts: 17
DefEdge wrote:
Amazing! I was trying to remember the name of this game, and here you folks are talking about it. Someone must be reading my wavelength or something heh. Edit: So, are you going to do a 100% run (all scrolls, all crystal balls, etc) or are you going for one of the lesser endings?
I rented it and "thought" I had finished it maybe 15 years ago or more. Turns out you have to reveal certain enemies as Tusk soldiers and beat them after they transform in order to finish the game, which I eventually did with an emulator. The fighting system was awesome, all about reaction time. No game other than Mike Tyson's Punch Out was so about reaction time. Anyone else ever succomb to nerves and dodge before Tyson flashed, then come back just in time for a real punch? Ouch
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Posted: 4/23/2016 7:24 PM
Post subject: Start of a TAS for this
Ighalli
He/Him
Joined: 4/23/2016
Posts: 4
I've started on a TAS of this game, but I'd like to get some feedback before I continue working on it. I'm not sure if the video is interesting enough to keep at it. I've done a lot of luck manipulation to land all of my attacks as fast as allowed, but I haven't been able to modify the move sequences yet. I was hoping to be able to get the game to only generate attacks on the enemies, but it appears that won't be possible. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/30437738788673903#Comment240 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pshe86gXSs8&feature=youtu.be
Posted: 4/23/2016 7:42 PM
Samsara
She/They
Site Admin, Expert player (2350)
Location: Northern California
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2938
Location: Northern California
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I think the run's interesting as it is, but I admit I have different tastes than most of the crowd here. Definitely a publishable game, though, so I'd recommend keeping at it. Question: In the opening part, what are the specific conditions needed for the purple "bosses" to spawn? That whole section looks a tiny bit iffy with all the waiting around, though I'm assuming that's specifically so you can kill the last one right before the door you need to go through.
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Posted: 4/23/2016 11:54 PM
Ighalli
He/Him
Joined: 4/23/2016
Posts: 4
In the journey sections, you have to kill 5 mooks to get a boss to spawn and you have to kill 5 bosses to go into the final door. Also the screen won't scroll to the left, so you must wait around or do laps. The other thing that probably doesn't look impressive is that most of the time when you attack an opponent in the fighting section, they block or dodge. I've picked the earliest frames to attack that result in hits, but it might look like I'm just standing around.
Posted: 4/24/2016 3:56 AM
Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
In the first section, why don't you walk towards the enemies to kill them sooner? Wouldn't that make more enemies / the bosses spawn faster? Right now you stand still and wait for them to come to you, which seems like it adds a lot of time.
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Posted: 4/24/2016 4:06 AM
Ighalli
He/Him
Joined: 4/23/2016
Posts: 4
In the original attempt I did move towards the enemies, but that caused the final throwing star lady to spawn near the gate, so I had to move to the left to enter it. There are some sections of the level where enemy locations are fixed and some that they spawn periodically. Only in the periodic spawning sections will the minibosses appear, so I can't beat the level faster than the spawn timer of the goons, so moving towards them is only helpful to change the areas I fight the bosses. I just noticed that I made a big mistake in letting one of the goons move by me though. I didn't know that the excess killed for a given boss will count towards summoning the next boss, so for sure I'll redo the first journey to fix that. I'll see if I can space out the movement a little better so I'm not standing still for so long while I'm at it.
Posted: 7/18/2026 1:37 AM
Post subject: Resumed progress on Flying Dragon TAS
Ighalli
He/Him
Joined: 4/23/2016
Posts: 4
A decade later and I'm back working on the TAS for Flying Dragon. This time I've learned 6502 and have figured out how the timed and fixed enemy spawns work, which targets will appear in the fights, and how to find the enemy AI code that triggers ⭐️ hits in the fights that have them. I've done a lot of working optimizing the side scrolling sections based on where it's most efficient to get the 5 normal enemies to spawn per boss, but I imagine there are still a few frames to pick up in the first two stages. The third stage adds the ability to fire your "Cosmic Saucers" while jumping which helps avoid ~11 frames of punching animation each time, but the majority of the stage has pits which interfere with enemy and boss spawning so I have to be especially stingy with moving to the right until I unlock that ability from the third boss. I believe the martial arts sections are very well optimized; if it looks like I do something silly it's usually because enemies will dodge or block certain attacks and you can't change those outcomes by waiting for the next frame or anything else simple. Many of the Hiryu-No-Ken hits are actually being dodged, but frame perfect input sometimes allows you to connect with the attack anyway: if an enemy is jumping, they should not be hit when they land in ordinary game play. One difficulty with this game is that the martial arts fights carry some state into the next fight, even across side scrolling levels, so if I improve an early fight I have to fix up all of the subsequent fights. I've been playing on 
Hiryuu no Ken - Ougi no Sho (Japan).nes
because that's what the world-record speedrun uses (see https://www.speedrun.com/flying_dragon_the_secret_scroll), it has better SFX, and I believe the training sequence is faster. The WR up to this point takes ~32,000 frames and the TAS is up to 23,856 frames. The WR in total is ~62,700 frames, but there are more martial arts fights in the second half of the game, so I expect to be able to come in well under the 47,000 frames that I'm on track for. FCEUX inputs for the first half of the game: User file #https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/639199335019967706