JQJ
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A preliminary note: the reason I am writing about this now is, of course, that I have read HappyLee's recent posts. But let me state clearly at the outset: this post is not a defense of him, and I will not comment on that situation at all. I will not respond to any replies concerning it. I am here only to continue the discussion of the issue itself. I will raise a few questions and offer my personal views, which may also help to clarify HappyLee's views. But let me reiterate: I have no intention of going against any site rule or consensus, and I would appreciate it if you would point out any omissions or misunderstandings on my part. I may not engage in any rebuttal at all — I am new here, I do not know the full context, and writing in English is a real effort for me. 1. Does "RTA timing" need to become a submission option, or a new TAS branch? I don't think it is necessary, and I see little to gain. First, a TAS's game goal is not chosen arbitrarily; it needs to be representative or to present unique game content. I don't think "RTA rules" by themselves are a meaningful goal, since for speedrunning they are almost inevitably slower, and predictably most of the content would be identical to an unrestricted TAS — usually not more interesting. Second, if it is treated purely as a timing method, it needs to have advantages over existing methods such as "TAS timing" or "in-game time" in at least some scenarios. I believe such examples may indeed exist — for instance, waiting before the game starts to adjust RNG so that time is actually saved after the start, or enabling a more spectacular performance. But for TAS, I would obviously prefer to wait in-game rather than before the start whenever possible, because other inputs can be used to increase the entertainment value. Meanwhile, allowing two timing methods at the same time, especially when used in titles or when comparing movies, easily brings confusion and trouble. Even if, as mentioned above, using "RTA timing" yields new improvements, it would not hurt to display it uniformly as "TAS timing" in the end — one only needs to emphasize that the movie pursues the fastest time under another timing, and whether that is reasonable can be left to the Judges and the audience, just as with movies that have special goals. 2. What confusion and trouble would allowing "RTA timing" bring? "RTA timing" is defined by each game's RTA community for real-time speedrunning, usually starting when the game content appears or when the player first takes control. I understand that it considers comparability and practicability across different hardware and player habits, but for TAS it lacks completeness. Clearly, between power-on and the actual start of the game, some inputs can be performed — even waiting may help the game itself. From the audience's perspective, I would argue that this is also part of the game time, and "TAS timing" is closer to the audience's intuitive sense of fast and slow — rather than waiting around pointlessly and then telling the audience: the total time is longer, but it's faster after the start. Therefore, allowing TAS to use "RTA timing" is more like promoting a new concept of game time. For TAS, I think it can only be a solution for a small number of special cases; if abused, it loses its original meaning. 3. What scenarios is "RTA timing" truly suited for? In my view, only as an alternative when "TAS timing" is inaccurate or inconvenient. For example, loading times differ between games, and emulator running speeds differ — but I believe these cases are better handled by the already existing "in-game time," rather than by adding a new "RTA timing." As for attracting RTA players' attention in order to increase submissions, that may be necessary to some extent, but I don't think it is a sufficient reason. "TAS timing" has its tradition and its practical significance, and it should be observed and respected. And in most cases it is not a burden: it is merely re-checking the start and end of the movie and displaying the correct TAS-standard time in the title. I don't think this is difficult for players who are used to RTA and want to try TAS — TASers have always had to learn this anyway. Finally, nobody is against diversity or opening the site to more people. The premise is truly knowing what this site can offer them — that decides who will join and who will stay away. Criticism of my values is welcome, and I will not argue. When I find that a place no longer suits me, I will stay silent, and then leave.
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I believe this topic was already thoroughly discussed on here and discord before, we dont need ChatGPT to give its "personal views".
Spikestuff
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HappyLee's thread had a lot of bad faith arguments and heavy misunderstandings, and refusal to provide something solvable... and the comments towards/about LeKukie. For example the complaint towards a hypothetical branch of "No L+R/U+D", you would just call it "No bidirectional input".
Anyways. I'm just going to stress that something as important as the SMB TAS of 04:54.032 is sometimes mistaken for the TAStime (04:57.31) being the comparative time to the (at the current time) 4:54.332 RTA WR and people coming to the wrong conclusion that the TAS is slower.
JQJ wrote:
Finally, nobody is against diversity or opening the site to more people.
What?
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Strong for yourself and also others.
JankRusty
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Location: International
Yeah, JQJ's post here is just a waste of time as the text is AI generated. The points that were brought up from somyeol and Spikestuff just further disprove this post. I'll also mention myself that I noticed a lot of false claims within this post despite not reading most of it. I won't even bother explaining.
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What games do these timing nuances matter for? I know there's the SMB confusion (although I don't see why both runs can't exist). For other games, can't the TASers just figure out what timing method makes the most sense (probably standard TAS timing in 99% of cases anyway)?
Memory
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NxCy wrote:
For other games, can't the TASers just figure out what timing method makes the most sense (probably standard TAS timing in 99% of cases anyway)?
That's more or less why the feature was added. We want to empower TASers to figure out these things and make these choices for themselves.
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
[3:56 PM]Thursday, July 23, 2026 3:56 PM Samsara: i mean this in the most positive way possible [3:56 PM]Thursday, July 23, 2026 3:56 PM Samsara: i feel like a lot of your interaction with tasvideos is finding excuses to watch TASes
JQJ
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Joined: 7/9/2026
Posts: 16
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Memory wrote:
NxCy wrote:
For other games, can't the TASers just figure out what timing method makes the most sense (probably standard TAS timing in 99% of cases anyway)?
That's more or less why the feature was added. We want to empower TASers to figure out these things and make these choices for themselves.
I totally agree with it. But I'm not sure TASers themselves can always execute and distinguish these standards well, and neither can the audience. That's why I think community and expert judgment still matters — that's exactly why I prefer keeping standards as unified as possible, and only discussing exceptions case by case. I think more choices are good, but only when people actually know how to use them correctly.
JQJ
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Joined: 7/9/2026
Posts: 16
Location: 🇨🇳 China
NxCy wrote:
What games do these timing nuances matter for? I know there's the SMB confusion (although I don't see why both runs can't exist). For other games, can't the TASers just figure out what timing method makes the most sense (probably standard TAS timing in 99% of cases anyway)?
In SMB1 RTA, there's a known strategy of waiting before the game starts to manipulate RNG, which can save time under RTA rules compared to waiting after the game starts. This is a concrete example of the timing conflict I'm familiar with. However, the actual gameplay content between these two approaches is nearly identical. I think it's unnecessary for both to exist.
JQJ
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Joined: 7/9/2026
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To keep it brief (avoid long AI-translated article), let me give a simple example. Imagine I'm TASing a really obscure game. There are no experts around to tell me which timing method is best, and there's no RTA community to define what "RTA timing" even means for it. In this case, I should default to the well-established, universally used "TAS timing" — rather than just picking some obscure, self-invented "RTA timing" (whatever you name it) simply because "there are options." Maybe after I and others fully understand the game, we might find a better timing method that actually gives an edge. Only then would we consider the alternative. But even then, we might have timing conflicts like in SMB1 (as I mentioned above), where we have to judge which one to keep. Obviously, we can't expect everyone to think this through carefully. Just letting people pick whatever timing they choose will only lead to comparison difficulties and audience confusion. People need to understand the differences between timing methods, and when it's actually appropriate to use something other than "TAS timing." That's my point.
Memory
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If there's a problem with a timing method, the judge should be able to pick up on it and overrule it. Anything done in bad faith is also obviously unacceptable.
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
[3:56 PM]Thursday, July 23, 2026 3:56 PM Samsara: i mean this in the most positive way possible [3:56 PM]Thursday, July 23, 2026 3:56 PM Samsara: i feel like a lot of your interaction with tasvideos is finding excuses to watch TASes
JQJ
He/Him
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Joined: 7/9/2026
Posts: 16
Location: 🇨🇳 China
Memory wrote:
If there's a problem with a timing method, the judge should be able to pick up on it and overrule it. Anything done in bad faith is also obviously unacceptable.
Alright, I hope so. But I don't think what I described is necessarily bad faith — it could just be a lack of knowledge or carelessness. I hope you'll judge these cases correctly when they come up, and also clarify the differences, help people understand so they can use the more appropriate timing method.