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Joined: 6/3/2004
Posts: 32
Location: Finland, Iisalmi
Very nice, at least up until the Ifrit Battle, where it desynchs like with everybody else. The "Skip Celes, get KUTAN instead" trick was really something that made my jaw drop. I guess the game has somekind of safe mechanism if you skip a plot important person somehow...
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
NeonTiger wrote:
I guess the game has somekind of safe mechanism if you skip a plot important person somehow...
Rather, it seems like the game does not have that mechanism. <hypothesis>When the first situation in the game occured when dialog required Celes to be present, it probably used a function that searches for the character slot where Celes is placed in. The function returned "no character found", but the caller did not verify the return value (because the programmers were believing it can't fail), and thus, it used whatever slot the function returned. In that slot, was still remaining the data that was placed there when Kutan was part of the party. Therefore, Kutan became the substitute Celes. Little by little, in different situations, more of the supposed aspects of Celes were assigned into Kutan (such as "visibility"), and ultimately in the Opera house, when Kutan's appearance was changed for the purpose of the opera, and later changed back ("back" meaning whatever Celes is supposed to look like), Kutan got Celes's appearance permanently on him, in the same way Locke has the merchant apperance on him permanently (until-if something happens that changes it again). But Kutan did not have Runic in his ability list, and there is no event that forces it into the list, and thus, he still can't do it. </hypothesis>
Joined: 2/12/2006
Posts: 432
I'm guessing that the game stores unused characters in 16 backup slots. I'm also guessing that it puts each one in a certain slot so it doesn't have to figure out where they are. Therefore, the game normally stores celes in kutan's slot after locke's scenario. Since that didn't happen, you get kutan. So a safe mechanism wouldn't have worked anyway, since celes wasn't even initiated.
Joined: 6/3/2004
Posts: 32
Location: Finland, Iisalmi
Bob A, Bisqwit: Yeah, your probably right, now that I think about it. But, some other game might have crashed or suffered some other kind of "fatal" reaction to a missing character.
Joined: 4/26/2004
Posts: 213
Location: Montréal, Québec
This is awesome. Great comments too. Few points: -I didn't discoever 00BE. I just explored ways to exploit it. -Desync on Ifrit for me too. -I hope you plan doing the Gogo Joker Doom on final Kefka. -I hope you're not losing a lot of time by doing dialogues frame perfect. It saves only one second per 120 dialog box. You're already losing a lot more by keeping full character name. -Didyou try to find a way to pick the hidden sprint shoes chest in Narshe ? Did you try messing with Left+Right or Up+Down ? This is the movie I wanted to make. I'm both glad and sad that I don't have to do it anymore.
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Maybe you should do a competing run and be faster!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Player (25)
Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany
Jyzero wrote:
-I hope you're not losing a lot of time by doing dialogues frame perfect. It saves only one second per 120 dialog box. You're already losing a lot more by keeping full character name. -Didyou try to find a way to pick the hidden sprint shoes chest in Narshe ? Did you try messing with Left+Right or Up+Down ?
I think its a great idea to keep the names like they are. Every Final Fantasy fan know the names and you can follow the story much better. It would be a bad idea to name them all A, B, C, D ..... Or maybe only all A like I do it in Final Fantasy Adventure. But in my Final Fantasy Adventure the Story is not so big and I name only 2 person A. By so much different persons it would be much harder to follow the story. About hidden sprint shoes. This remember me about a trick/glitch which I read someday somewhere, maybe someone link a side from this board? Sometimes you can just press a button und you will open an invisible chest. It work most in doors or entrances. I never test it, so I not sure if this is real or was a joke. But I saw pictures where you get items in strange places. Maybe this trick/glitch is useful, when you get special or rare items.
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty
Joined: 2/12/2006
Posts: 432
MattyXB wrote:
I think its a great idea to keep the names like they are. Every Final Fantasy fan know the names and you can follow the story much better. It would be a bad idea to name them all A, B, C, D ..... Or maybe only all A like I do it in Final Fantasy Adventure. But in my Final Fantasy Adventure the Story is not so big and I name only 2 person A. By so much different persons it would be much harder to follow the story.
It's too bad they got Tina's name wrong. Also, why are they all written in majuscules? By the way, great job on the WIP, Catastrophe!
Joined: 8/25/2004
Posts: 44
Location: St. Louis, Missouri, USA
MattyXB wrote:
About hidden sprint shoes. This remember me about a trick/glitch which I read someday somewhere, maybe someone link a side from this board? Sometimes you can just press a button und you will open an invisible chest. It work most in doors or entrances. I never test it, so I not sure if this is real or was a joke. But I saw pictures where you get items in strange places. Maybe this trick/glitch is useful, when you get special or rare items.
I remember this being in Final Fantasy 2/4 with some regularity, but never with Final Fantasy 3/6. That would be neat if this were the case, though. It'd make me have to play this game all over again! Loved the WIP, by the way. It's a shame it desyncs for everyone, though. I cannot wait for more!
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
If what Bisqwit says is true, then I think Catastrophe has to redo the movie from there!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Player (25)
Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany
Fro Jackson wrote:
MattyXB wrote:
About hidden sprint shoes. This remember me about a trick/glitch which I read someday somewhere, maybe someone link a side from this board? Sometimes you can just press a button und you will open an invisible chest. It work most in doors or entrances. I never test it, so I not sure if this is real or was a joke. But I saw pictures where you get items in strange places. Maybe this trick/glitch is useful, when you get special or rare items.
I remember this being in Final Fantasy 2/4 with some regularity, but never with Final Fantasy 3/6. That would be neat if this were the case, though. It'd make me have to play this game all over again!
Yes, now I remember the one cave where I saw the picture and this cave doesn't exist in FF3/6. So I mix it with FF2/4. Sorry, no item glitch in this game. Was my fault.
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty
Post subject: Thank You Everyone!
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Thank You Everyone! :) Atma: Nah. Shadow slows Sabin down and he wastes time with his goodbye speech. Also, something funny happens in Albrook if you haven't yet met Shadow. :) Kutan has no desperation move. Neither do Kamog, Leo, Wedge, Bannon, or any of the ghosts. I was hoping that Kutan could use Spin Edge but the game checks your character id and adds it to F0 to calculate the attack number that will be your desperation move. (Gogo is a special case, subtract one from the attack id because Gau does not have one.) So even if I were to somehow bypass the check to see if the character id is > 12 (Kutan is 22) then F0h + 22d = 06 and Kutan would use Bolt 2 as a desperation move. I'm hoping that Kutan's 'character sheet', 'slot', whatever you call it gets totally blown away by the sketch glitch and that the ID changes to something useable. (If I can manipulate the sketch glitch, I will.) Bisqwit: You're right about how this game works. There are 16 fixed-width 'character sheets' that get erased and overwritten constantly as your real characters replace the temps. Celes/Kutan is slot #7. The game's programmers assume that Celes is in that slot at all times. Sometimes they just use Celes' sprite without even checking who is in the slot, because they 'know' that you 'must' have Celes. I don't want to say for certain, but I think Locke is also back to normal in the WOR. Erim: Keep a watch on $BE. Notice how it stops when your characters attack. Critical hits occur when $BE contains one of the following values (hex): 22, 54, 68, 75, 7F, 81, 8D, or FD. Usually when you 'hit' the critical at 68, for example, $BE will show 6A or 6B because after using 68 at the right moment the game then used 3 more random numbers to determine your damage. (Or whatever.) It takes three or four re-records in the right area to get one. But if you do get a critical hit on frame X, and BE reads 6B during the animation, then you can be 100% certain that frame X+13 will also give you a critical hit without even having to try it! Desperation moves are the same way with the following values for $BE (hex): 01, 0F, 2D, 53, 56, 65, 69, 8B, 8C, A5, D7, D9, E3, E9, F5, and F9. If you are near fatal and need a critical instead of a desperation then only six numbers will do it: FC, 21, 5D, 74, 7E, and B0. Saturn: Locke's clothes are just for fun. Jyzero: I think a mimic-reversed Joker Doom is the only way to take out the tiers at the end of the game! Also, since Ghestal failed to 'put Kefka to sleep laughing', I think it is fitting to at least defeat him with a spell that laughs at him. :) That high pitched shrill that plays every time Joker Doom goes off is the joker laughing at you before setting your wound status without checking your instant death protection bit. :) Ha HA ha ha HA! MattyXB: Invisible chests do exist in this game. Unfortunately I've lost the link to this awesome website with everything you need to know about FF6 treasure chests. (All locations, all dupicates, and their implementation if you want to hack them.) The Sprint Shoes in Narshe are totally inaccessable. I did pick them up once, but I used a walk-through-walls cheat. Besides that I cannot reach them. I tried everything I could think of to 'break' the game but the walls are just solid. My ROM is FF3 (U) (v1.0) [!]. This is the only version of the game where the sketch glitch can be performed. That's important since I'm planning on doing it. The Ifrit desync drives me nuts but the movie titled "04-5-06.smv" that ends in the middle of the #024 battle should get that far without a desync. My next actions in that movie should be to press B at the right moment to do TigerBreak, which should also cause Locke to punch Edgar down to 1HP, who then finishes the boss off with RoyalShock. I'll post another WIP up to the minecart ride to make sure that this desync is really gone.
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Will it take you alot of time to remake the part from Ifrit and forward? I don't remember how far you actually got. I find it very interesting that you are so involved with the game engine and values etc. It takes alot of understanding and reading to get such a deal of info I suppose. I'm very much looking forward to the complete run. In the meantime, keep posting these interesting bits. :D
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462
Those values you gave don't work for me (the critical hit values).
Ambassador, Experienced player (709)
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
This is frickin awesome! I would kill off my party members to save time though, as you might guess from my other runs. :) Kutan standing in for Celes is hilarious. When he temporarily turned into a human for the Opera it reminded me of that movie where Geena Davis does a makeover on three big hairy aliens and they turn out to be Jeff Goldblum, Jim Carrey and Damon Wayans. ("Earth Girls are Easy")
Joined: 2/12/2006
Posts: 432
Doesn't getting the merchant clothes take time?
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Former player
Joined: 11/6/2004
Posts: 833
Yes, and he's stated that in his document (with a frame estimate). But it's funny. Locke is going to look like that for the rest of the game. When walking around Zozo, is it a merchant or is it Locke? Who knows. The Mario64 *120 run knowingly sacrifiices a few frames in the menus to change the camera mode. I won't consider that bad when it's submitted. If it's in good taste and the author recognizes what s/he's done, I say it's okay. An estimate of the time lost is good in case someone tries to improve on it and skips the trick.
Joined: 2/12/2006
Posts: 432
Sorry; I hadn't read that yet.
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
Desyncs for me as well.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
I'm going to be late for Easter dinner, but here is the WIP. I watched my entire movie from the beginning and it reached the end safely. :) I'll post about what I think is causing me to desync my own movie later. I also have to reply about that battle in the Imperial Camp where Sabin uses a potion. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1021/run.smv
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Active player (398)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 632
Location: Seattle, WA
Awesome, no desync this time! I'm seriously loving this run and do not care one bit that it is already over 2 hours long :)
Former player
Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 524
Location: USA
Looked good, didn't desync here either. Btw, I suggest that you guys make a state before it ends for the next WIP. Unless fast forwarding is you're kinda thing.
Working on: Command and Conquer PSX Nod Campaign
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
I demand that this run will be authored into a DVD when it's complete. Filled with chapters and a good layout! :D Thanks for fixing the desyncs!
Player (25)
Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany
Yes, great. Work now fine to the end. I love the desperation attack's. Great, that you show so much from them. I hope to see much more later. Good luck for this TAS. I hope you can finish it with no big problems and desyncs anymore.
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty
Joined: 6/3/2004
Posts: 32
Location: Finland, Iisalmi
No desynch anymore, yay! I got to say, very good, very good indeed. But, I don't think you'll be able to get a sub 4 hour run, as the SDA run clocks in at 5:26 and thats segmented so basically it has some crude luck manipulation. Of course, frame perfection and "perfect" luck can shave off a lot of time. I just hope you finish the run, even if it takes over 4 hours.
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