Post by Warp

Posted: 6/12/2006 7:40 PM

Post subject: Doom and Wolfenstein3D for SNES

Quote

Warp

Banned User, Former player

Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland

Both of those games have been ported to SNES (a rather admirable feat in itself, even though the graphics and framerates are understandably not comparable to the original PC version). Even though SNES Doom is quite weaker on the graphics side and Wolfenstein3D is a rather boring game (at least to watch) they might make more or less interesting TASes. Has anyone tried them?

Posted: 6/12/2006 7:44 PM

Quote

NrgSpoon

Joined: 6/14/2004
Posts: 646

If you're going to play Doom, you might as well use the 32X version.

I like my "thank you"s in monetary form.

Posted: 6/12/2006 7:50 PM

Quote

adelikat

He/Him

Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3599)

Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4739
Location: Tennessee

I would be interested in seeing a run of either game. Did Doom2 get ported to the SNES?

It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects

Posted: 6/12/2006 9:08 PM

Quote

FlowingMindspin

He/Him

Joined: 1/9/2005
Posts: 16

Nah, just the original. It used the Super FX chip.

Posted: 6/12/2006 9:13 PM

Quote

JXQ

Experienced player (750)

Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132

Aren't there already tool-assisted runs from the PC version of Doom? It may be unnecessary to run the game on a version with such large hardware handicaps.

<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)

Posted: 6/12/2006 9:27 PM

Quote

moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

JXQ wrote:

Aren't there already tool-assisted runs from the PC version of Doom? It may be unnecessary to run the game on a version with such large hardware handicaps.

I don't remember the SNES version being severely handicapped. Remember that Doom has come out at about the time PC hadn't gaming capabilities much better than SNES.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 6/12/2006 9:29 PM

Quote

Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

The SNES version has a low FPS (downsampled by ratio of 4, making it 15 fps), and a low resolution (around 192x160 or something), and it does not render floor and ceiling textures.

Posted: 6/12/2006 9:31 PM

Quote

moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

Whoa, my memory seems really rusty. I can't remember the original Doom being this good. :D

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 6/13/2006 1:37 AM

Quote

Ash_Williams

Former player

Joined: 6/2/2006
Posts: 63

I used to play the snes doom game when I was younger. The biggest thing I remember about it was that it was hard to control and seemed much choppier than the PC version. A speed run might be interesting to watch but it would be tough to make it better than the existing ones. It might end up looking like someone played doom on a computer that wasn't quite fast enough to run it.

Posted: 6/13/2006 1:55 AM

Quote

MikeRS

Joined: 1/21/2006
Posts: 117

There's already both tool-assisted and non-tool-assisted runs of Doom, using the higher-quality PC versions.

Posted: 6/13/2006 4:44 AM

Quote

creaothceann

He/Him

Editor

Joined: 4/7/2005
Posts: 1874
Location: Germany

Ash Williams wrote:

... a computer that wasn't quite fast enough to run it.

Which is exactly what the SNES is. :) (obviously not an IBM-PC computer though)

Posted: 6/13/2006 11:26 AM

Quote

Aqfaq

Editor, Expert player (2460)

Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!

I'd probably enjoy watching the SNES Doom, because it is actually quite a different game than the PC version. Most of the Doom TAS that I've seen look sloppy. There's however this page by Andrey Budko that shows some quality: http://www.geocities.com/e6y/doom.html Unfortunately, you need the game to replay those awesome TAS demos. (Youtube version, not recommended: http://youtube.com/watch?v=XorJfexzF4M&search=doom%20demos)

Posted: 6/13/2006 9:36 PM

Quote

JXQ

Experienced player (750)

Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132

Warp wrote:

Having a speedrun of a game for one platform does not make a speedrun of the same game for another platform obsolete. There are some speedruns at SDA of the same game for different platforms (such as Tomb Raider 3 and Splinter Cell).

I'm not saying this is obsoleting a SNES version. But I can't understand why one would want to watch a SNES Doom TAS when a PC Doom TAS is available?

<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)

Posted: 6/14/2006 1:37 AM

Quote

NecroVMX

Player (70)

Joined: 8/13/2004
Posts: 205

forget it, i've tried to do snes doom, it desynchs like crazy

Posted: 6/14/2006 1:42 AM

Quote

nesrocks

He/Him

Player (241)

Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil

it desyncs as with any superfx game? doh.

aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios

Posted: 6/14/2006 1:46 AM

Quote

NecroVMX

Player (70)

Joined: 8/13/2004
Posts: 205

i managed to get a run to go almost to the end of map 1 and it would not stop desynching where you open the last door, so yeah. that's about 9 seconds into the game

Posted: 6/14/2006 2:34 AM

Quote

Blublu

Player (67)

Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjavík, Ísland

Well if you must do a run of a crappy console port, there's always Quake 64 on the Nintendo 64. I think it's supposed to feature some new levels not in the PC version (I have no idea, though). edit: confused Doom with Quake again... sorry.

Posted: 6/14/2006 10:02 AM

Quote

Aqfaq

Editor, Expert player (2460)

Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!

JXQ wrote:

But I can't understand why one would want to watch a SNES Doom TAS when a PC Doom TAS is available?

Because generally PC Doom TAS does not aim for frame precision, ha-ha. There might also be some new bugs to abuse in the SNES version. On the other hand, I believe strafe-running, wall-running and many other tricks do not work so well on SNES. Yeah, the SNES Doom looks horrible and runs slow, but I'd still like to see it done. I'm sure it would look ridiculous and funny. Who knows what kind of routes and tricks might emerge?

Posted: 6/14/2006 10:08 AM

Quote

Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

Strafe-running works just fine... but you can't turn while strafing, and the game only accepts new input every 4 frames (or so), and the precision of turning is rather coarse. Also, it requires a large number of buttons to pressed at the same time in many cases.

Posted: 6/14/2006 10:33 AM

Quote

Warp

Banned User, Former player

Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland

Bisqwit mentioned the unavoidable desyncs too. Seems like this game cannot be recorded in current snes emulators without desync happening? Wouldn't this be a place for a bug report or something?

Posted: 6/14/2006 10:36 AM

Quote

Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

Warp wrote:

Bisqwit mentioned the unavoidable desyncs too. Seems like this game cannot be recorded in current snes emulators without desync happening?

I'm using a different snes9x version than most of the others, and I have never made movies with it before. I don't expect others to have the same problems I did.

Posted: 6/15/2006 8:29 PM

Quote

MikeRS

Joined: 1/21/2006
Posts: 117

Aqfaq wrote:

JXQ wrote:
But I can't understand why one would want to watch a SNES Doom TAS when a PC Doom TAS is available?
Because generally PC Doom TAS does not aim for frame precision, ha-ha. There might also be some new bugs to abuse in the SNES version. On the other hand, I believe strafe-running, wall-running and many other tricks do not work so well on SNES.

Frames on a computer are not absolute. Doom runs aim for the best time, counting frames is not an accurate measurement at all. You can run the game at 5% normal speed, but still see 60FPS.

Posted: 6/17/2006 4:29 AM

Quote

Heisanevilgenius

Active player (405)

Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 708

Bisqwit wrote:

The SNES version has a low FPS (downsampled by ratio of 4, making it 15 fps), and a low resolution (around 192x160 or something), and it does not render floor and ceiling textures.

Ratio of 4? Doom has a frame rate of 35 FPS.

Posted: 7/13/2014 8:00 PM

Quote

Dimon12321

He/Him

Active player (480)

Joined: 4/5/2014
Posts: 1128
Location: Ukraine

~~Let's take this topic from the unreading pit!~~ About Doom: I think SNES version is not the best port choice because of low fps and bad graphics. In my opinion, if we take all aspects, the best console port choice is PSX. Saturn is also good: its medium fps is compensated with increased rapid-firing which so helpful in 100% runs. I don't know what objective is the best in Doom runs and what chance to take a rejection because of the bad port choice (answer if the chance is high!), but I think it should be any% for every port (32X is small and 100% will be also interesting to watch). The difficulty should be UV for SNES and 32X because of the monsters's aggression and Nightmare for PSX and 32X (only for 100%). Is it correct? P.S: Bizhawk is not enough fixed to emulate Saturn's Doom. Reason is here: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15183 With Wolfenstein everything is better! I think any port will be interresting, but the best is DOS of course, with no SNES's rocket launcher :-) The objective is better any% because almost all floors are maze-like and it's difficult to get the best route for 100%!

TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.