You guys should just abandon the vote system and let the judges decide, as that's what you do anyway. Votes are obviously meaningless, this should have been published. And it IS a good argument that there are like 4 metroid runs (3 of them nearly identical) I honestly can't comprehend 4 metroid movies, 2 is enough. one that's 100% and one that's any percent. anything else is excessive. But people voted that they wanted it and they got it. They also voted that yes for this run, and it was killed rather quickly, despite that there are runs sitting on the workbench for months and months. "the general public" voted yes, and to have an insane condition like "we'll only publish it if people want it to obsolete a run of another game" is ridiculous. You basically set up a way that it could never be published (which is unfair, every run should have an equal chance) by putting an insane condition that it would only be published if it obsoletes another game's run. Of course people aren't going to go for that, which you most likely knew, so it gets rejected, despite being far newer than most runs on the workbench and most of the votes being yes. Since you guys admit that the votes don't matter as much as whether or not a judge likes the movie, why bother having votes?

All arguements above are valid, however, the voting system is more for the authors benefit than anything else in my opinion. By votes and comments the author immediately knows what can be improved in their movie and what the chances of acceptance are. It means that the author has the appropriate knowledge to decide whether or not to cancel their own movie. The fact that many runs fester for months on end on the workbenchjustifies the voting system. As an author it would be better to have feedback on your movie quickly rather than wait nervously for months on end just to have it rejected at the end. Perhaps new submissions should be queued in a gamefaqs sort of way or maybe Bisqwit could hire more judges to speed up the process.

You basically set up a way that it could never be published (which is unfair, every run should have an equal chance)

Every run? Maybe. Every game? No. There are games that provide high entertainment value by themselves due to various reasons such as variety (mainly variety!), good look, etc. Some games are just too repetitive for a run. Try sorting movies by their rating and find the general patterns. Proving your leet skillz in controlling a car in realtime in front of your friends and doing that is a TAS for 20 minutes isn't the same. Therefore, some games will never make a good TAS.

so it gets rejected, despite being far newer than most runs on the workbench and most of the votes being yes.

Actually, no votes are far more informative, because they indicate that a run isn't that interesting, or it contains a mistake. It is worth mentioning that a yes vote doesn't always indicate the contrary. For example, this submission was rejected despite of the majority of the yes votes mainly because it didn't show high enough variety to be published alongside the any% run (though its technical quality was even superior!). Of course, a judge always have the final word (because he's a judge, duh), but when he is undecided, he relies primarily on the votes, that's why it's always good to vote more and informatively explain your vote.

You guys should just abandon the vote system and let the judges decide, as that's what you do anyway.

You have misunderstood. The judges have always been the ones who decide. The voting system has never solely decided the fate of a movie. It was only intended to help the judges if they do not know anything about the game (there was a time when we only had one or two judges, you know).

Votes are obviously meaningless, this should have been published.

Votes are not meaningless. Almost a third of this movie's votes are "no". That's a pretty high percantage considering that at the moment, 21 out of 29 accepted submissions have 100% "yes" votes. The ones that don't are still above 80%. So I wouldn't see this being rejected as unusual. Anyway, the percentage doesn't matter, it's up to the judges.

Even though I haven't watched it, I don't think guidelines should be set so that its impossible for a ideal choice run on a certain game to get published. I'm not promoting the run but if a run is done perfectly in a way that no one can nit pik it, then it should get published due to the fact that its useful for un-assisted runners who may run the game themselved. Otherwise runs submitted will only go down to obvious choice games and runs meaning that 90% of the material will be on simalar style games.

We can't dodge the fact that the site rule stating that all movies must be entertaining dictates the votes on the workbench. However, it is clear that most newbies and even some of the newer members don't have a clear idea of what exactly this means. I think that this submission and so many like it are good examples of this. I think the best way to combat this is to set a page beside the wishlist that lists all GAMES (not movies) submitted/suggested/requested that have been rejected/cancelled due to the fact that the games themselves do not make good TASes. This will stop many people submitting movies destined for rejection and, especially in this case, will avoid animosity and discouragement of newer players.

It's hard to judge if game makes an entertaining run before the first run is actually done. That's why newbies should post more WIPs.

I think the best way to combat this is to set a page beside the wishlist that lists all GAMES (not movies) submitted/suggested/requested that have been rejected/cancelled due to the fact that the games themselves do not make good TASes.

Dude, that's the best idea ever. Almost. But still, definitely worth working on it.

Sorry for the confusion. My comment of having 4 Battletoads movies (which is only 3, I didn't realize that the 2P warpless obsoleted the 2P warps) etc. was that there's no need to replace RR1 with this game. It wasn't to say that this should be published or not. I haven't voted or even watched the run.

well that's just the thing isn't it? The judges apparently decided from the get go that the only way this would be published is if it obsoleted the old one, an incredibally stupid restriction that was only put in place to not have this run. I wonder if they're so against the idea of rad racer runs, why the first one even made it, as this one is far more interesting than the RR1 run

No judge started that idea. Anubis suggested it, and everyone else has spoken out against it. I don't even know why it was given a second thought.

I wonder if they're so against the idea of rad racer runs, why the first one even made it, as this one is far more interesting than the RR1 run

Like said earlier, lots of runs of very very crappy games (or the other way around) got published in the past. Now the audience is more demanding, and racing games aren't generally good for TASing.

well that's just the thing isn't it? The judges apparently decided from the get go that the only way this would be published is if it obsoleted the old one, an incredibally stupid restriction that was only put in place to not have this run. I wonder if they're so against the idea of rad racer runs, why the first one even made it, as this one is far more interesting than the RR1 run

This isn't what happened at all. I was going to reject the previous submission. Somebody suggested that it should replace the rr1 run (on the grounds of greater entertainment value and great similarity of the two games). That seems somewhat plausible so I held off to explore that idea. The idea was well supported so I rejected the run. There was never a restriction. Some may not have understood this due to not reading the previous rr2 submission.

I watched a video of it and I'm voting meh for reasons that were near unavoidable. 1. Poor game choice, although its understandable why you'll disagree with this. 2. Very repetitve 3. Impossible to judge whether certain bits were optimized during certain parts of the game due to the nature of the game. Judging it is literally impossible. 2D driving games aren't really a choice except for maybe SMK, although there are plenty of good choices for 3D driving games. Although its a different console Top Gear Rally on N64 might be a good choice because of a lot of shortcuts, different weather condictions and some fancy moves that could be done over humps.

and some fancy moves that could be done over humps

Hmm, just thought about Road Rash! There was a lot of bumps that could throw you in the air for a significant amount of time if manipulated correctly, but it wasn't too useful due to the game's linearuty.

om, nom, nom... blech, stale!