Skilled player (1886)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Hmm okat, maybe I'll redo it then. I don't want it to look sloppy... I believe I skipped the last 3 bags because I wanted to kill more enemies before the boss appeared. Another question, do you think it will look more or less entertaining if I would just aim for bonuses and kills, without destroying any scenery? It's true that I get a higher score by destroying scenery, but perhaps it will look cool if I only hit enemies and bonuses with all shots... Any thoughts on this?
Active player (253)
Joined: 4/24/2005
Posts: 476
It's less about looking sloppy and more about having more bombs to use against the guys with the blue suits. Well, since scenery adds to the score, I would go for destroying the scenery. Oh, and one tactic I would use for the next scene is if the fat guys behind the bar and the rolling guys appear at the same time, shoot the fat guys first, since they won't help you charge your Vulcan meter anyway.
[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcuV2JdaBYY]Streets of Rage 3 (2 players)[/url]
Former player
Joined: 7/14/2006
Posts: 51
Location: Mexico
While checking the site i stumbled on the WildGuns TAS and i thought it was decent, but it could be improved. And since i'm in a stage of doing crazy projects i thought, why not? So here we are, experimenting with a fun SNES game. I'll try to met the following criteria:
    Plays on hardest difficulty Aims for fastest time Takes no damage Controls two players at once Manipulates Luck
For glitches, the only thing that i have found is that tapping the directional buttons moves the aim while that characters stand on the same spot. Left+Right just make the aim go left Up+Dwn makes the aim go up, and all at once makes the aim go Up+Left. The boss from 1-2 was awful, i spent like 200 rerecords on it, he has a window of 3 frames to rehit with the lasso, and had a tricky luck manipulation if i pressed Y at the same time as the Player2 it would duck as soon as it got out of stun, bastard. ----- Newest WIP November-06-2006, Stage 3-1 -----
Former player
Joined: 7/14/2006
Posts: 51
Location: Mexico
Ugh, horrible mistake, i seriously underestimated the Grenade Launcher. The original 1P run beats me by 100 frames, oh well. Live and learn. Redoing Levels 1-2 and 1-3 as i'm sure i can manipulate a G. Launcher on the 2nd wave of dynamite throwing baddies.
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
Tiger- wrote:
The original 1P run beats me by 100 frames, oh well. Live and learn.
Note that the existing run is played on EASY difficulty! It was a mistake to accept that movie in the first place, so just play on the hardest difficulty and don't mind if you're losing to the existing run by a few seconds.
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1301)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
On the other hand, don't lose to the existing run if you can help it; beat it by as much as possible even it it was played on an easier difficulty.
Player (70)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Awesome to hear that someone is making a new TAS on this game. I have wondered for a long time if no one will pick it up.
Active player (253)
Joined: 4/24/2005
Posts: 476
You might want to take a look at this topic, which has a lot of information regarding the game and how to get the Vulcan faster. As for the WIP, it seems like you let some enemies escape and took out quite a few enemies slowly. In stage 1-2, when the two robots came down, you took them out and ignored the other weaker enemies. This costs you time because each enemy killed deducts one second from the timer. On the stage 1-3 boss, is it possible to skip the last lasso and kill the boss before it can start shooting? This would make it slightly faster. Also, you didn't get the hidden bomb in the first stage at the top left corner. It could prove useful later on. Sorry if I seem picky, but I want the run to be as good as possible and I hope this feedback proves useful.
[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcuV2JdaBYY]Streets of Rage 3 (2 players)[/url]
Former player
Joined: 7/14/2006
Posts: 51
Location: Mexico
atro city wrote:
Sorry if I seem picky, but I want the run to be as good as possible and I hope this feedback proves useful.
Don't worry about it, i'm paying attention to everything said in this topic. If it helps the run then go ahead, it will make things look a lot better. Next WIP tomorrow, college today.
Former player
Joined: 7/14/2006
Posts: 51
Location: Mexico
New WIP, redone stages 1-1 to 1-3. Link Improvements: * 1-2, changing that ? Ammunition to a Grenade Launcher for Clint. * 1-3, with the ammo from 1-2 the battle should be shorter Next WIP tomorrow. (Redoing 1-2 and 1-3)
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462
I like this, it looks good. Just a question out of curiousity, is the superscope compatible with this game?
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1301)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
erokky wrote:
is the superscope compatible with this game?
It isn't. And the superscope only works if it's plugged into the second controller port, so it couldn't be used for both players anyway.
Former player
Joined: 7/14/2006
Posts: 51
Location: Mexico
Woo. Got a new comp and had some troubles with windows and other programs, so this was put on hold, sorry. But now we are back in action. Link Redid stage 1-2 and 1-3, improved by 4 secs. Beating original Run by ~10 secs. Next, Desolation Canyon.
Former player
Joined: 7/14/2006
Posts: 51
Location: Mexico
School sucks. Link I'm havong problems on stage 2-2 i'm trying to get the last enemie (the one to drops the bomb) to drop a Grenade Launcher, also the Boss of 2-3 can't be lassoed so i'm either thinking of Bomb Spam or normal play. I think it's best if i use the bombs when he uses the flamethrower attack and dodge the missiles, either that or manipulate it so it only uses the flamethrower attack aiming at the top of the screen.
Former player
Joined: 7/14/2006
Posts: 51
Location: Mexico
Bombs are more powerful than i thought. Link The Bonus Stage was done as frame perfect as i could, probably lost about 10 frames with bad positioning. Now onto Ammunition Depot.
Experienced player (822)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Are you still working on this Tiger-? I stumbled across the game first, then found that there was a run already, so I thought I'd try my hand at it, but I won't steal your thunder if you're still working on it.
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Former player
Joined: 7/14/2006
Posts: 51
Location: Mexico
Well, i had to stop because finals. But if you want to try it, go ahead. Hey, maybe we could both work on it? What do you think? :)
Experienced player (822)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
I recently picked up my Turok run again, but I'm sure I'll need the occasional break from thinking in 3D. I've never worked jointly on a project but I'd sure be willing to take a crack at it. I'll PM you when I've gotten tired of dinosaur killing and want to switch over to robots ;)
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Joined: 6/7/2006
Posts: 53
Just today I decided to give this game a go. Despite being a pretty much total newbie to actually using the TAS tools, I decided to try a 2 player run on Hard mode - 2 players because I'm 99% sure it's faster, and Hard mode because I think it affects more than just boss health (which it definitely affects). Here's the first area of the first stage: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/989295027/FtD_WildGuns_2P_Hard.smv (switched to microstorage so it stays up longer) Fair warning: parts of the video are probably going to be boring. I tried to focus on speed with this one and didn't bother to worry about entertainment, something I figure I can add in a later version - the idea I have for that is using the aiming reticles to spell things out when waiting. The one thing I focused on was trying to take as much advantage of the two-player mechanic as I knew I could do. (Is it less than what 2 players can possibly do in theory? Likely.) Some of my shots are also deliberately early as a demonstration of how long the shots last (most noticeable near the end when Clint has the machinegun). Getting that consistently is another matter, probably something for a redo (which I definitely intend after I get feedback). Other notes (edited in after my original post, so if you read what I had before, there's definitely more info here): It takes 4 frames from the time you hit the fire button to when you actually fire, and 8 frames for a shot to reach the enemy. So to hit the enemy as early as possible, you have to shoot 12 frames ahead of time. The grenade gun and, as hinted above, the machinegun can be shot sooner and still get enough hits to kill some enemies. Weapon manipulation seems to be frame-dependent, rather than action-dependent (an example of action-dependent would be Aria of Sorrow, I think), which ought to ease things a little. To me, it seems the shotgun is most useful for shooting the weakest enemies - clusters of them hopefully, with its wider shot. The power of the shot depends on how much actually hits, but I think the maximum on large enemies is five hits and the max on smaller enemies is two. The grenade gun is the strongest collectable weapon, shot for shot, but I think the machinegun deals its damage faster. I skip bonuses for two reasons: 1. They add to the time taken after the stage for the points tally. 2. I've been able to use them to help me with my action timing. This will become less necessary as I learn proper frame timing technique, but until then I take what I can get. If there is enough demand I'll go after bonuses, but probably at the last frame possible in most cases. Also, is it just me or do knife enemies go after the player that's farther from the edge of the screen? What I want to know is whether that area's boss is actually vulnerable in midair - listening from the audio cues when Randil fired at him in his most recent WIP, it sounds like he's invulnerable in mid-jump. I was going to bomb him because of the approaching shots, but then I discovered that I was killing him before the shots even reached me so I stuck with this. I don't know if I even NEED the second bomb that's available (one of the enemies in the last wave that I let the timer take care of), because Clint and Annie EACH start with three, but I see two uses for bombs: 1. The fighting of those guys in the blue suits 2. Bullet removal/enemy killing if we decide we need the Vulcan Cannon in a certain spot and we're too close to getting it early What I'd like to know is if I'm even going in the right direction. Also I'd like to know some improvements, especially non-obvious ones.
Experienced player (822)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
This was on my to-do list, but I'm glad to see you're cutting your teeth on it. One thing I would highly, HIGHLY recommend is using a RAM watcher to make sure that the shots you're giving to bosses actually count (you can't always go by audio cues, and it will help you figure out for sure whether he is invulnerable in the air). I only played around for a tiny bit with this game so I can't offer any help with the weapon specifics (another handy use for RAM watching-- seeing how much damage each gun deals per shot), but I'll be happy to watch a couple WIPs and maybe help you figure out a few memory addresses if you'd like.
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Player (244)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
This is really cool. I haven't watched a shoot-'em-up TAS yet, and I really like where this could go (especially in terms of entertainment; dancing the reticles around each other and having the two characters "interact" are a few good examples that come to mind). Good luck! EDIT: HP for the first boss is found at $7E1D22, hope this helps
Joined: 6/7/2006
Posts: 53
Sorry! I'd been a tad bit busy over the past week or so, but I've had another chance to look at things. Now that I figured out that the RAM watch tool in SNES9X appears to be called 'cheat search', I had another look at Randil's WIP (since he fired at the boss in midair, unlike me), and the RAM address provided by ElectroSpecter. What I saw there confirms what my ears have been telling me on this one - that boss is invulnerable in midair. I'm thinking the best way I can approach this issue in the redo is to find a way to force him not to jump right away. When I can also get him to use his slower attack (the ones with the volleys of bullets, rather than floor-raking gunfire), that's even better, since I won't have to lose time moving out of the way. By the way, ElectroSpecter - the RAM address you specified seems to apply to the first destroyable on screen at any time, and not just the boss enemy. (When I say destroyables, I am not talking the scenery as a whole - just things that explode or die.) 7E1D26 seems to apply to any second destroyable. Not sure about the values of any destroyables beyond two as of yet, although it seems to go every four RAM values after that. (Blue-suited guys are either an exception, or they're farther than I checked.) So at the start of the first area, 7E1D22 is occupied by the water pump that has the bomb, and 7E1D26 is occupied by the covered wagon. (I think - I may have this backwards.) Former has 16 HP, latter has 36. The gatling-gun enemies that are wheeled in start with 40. And the area boss starts with 64. (The entire first stage's boss - the giant mech - started with 160 when I was dinking around at full speed in easy mode checking things - why that number's in two addresses I'm not sure, because damage only draws from one.) Values appear when the destroyable is first loaded, not necessarily when it's vulnerable or even when it appears. I also note that there's occasional instances where these values will jump to 255. What this means in terms of the game, I don't quite know yet. As far as weapons..... Shotgun seems to deal 1 damage per frame over the course of a number of frames equal to the number of pellets hitting. Grenade gun seems to deal 1 damage every 4 frames for about 20 frames (don't know an exact number for duration of the shot yet). Machine gun is 1 per pellet that hits. Bombs deal 24 damage to everyone on screen - over what duration I haven't fully checked. Don't know about the Vulcan yet.
Skilled player (1886)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
I have some more RAM-addresses for this game if you're interested: 7E1609,2u,P1 Cursor x Pos 7E160D,2u,P2 Cursor X Pos 7E1709,2u,P1 Cursor Y Pos 7E170D,2u,P1 Cursor Y Pos ---- 7E0020,2u,Screen x Pos 7E1601,2u,P1 Chr. X Pos 7E1605,2u,P2 Chr. X Pos ---- 7E1FD0,1u,P1 10-score ---- 7EB8A0,1u,Seconds 7EB860,1u,Seconds 7E0246,1x,Seconds 7E0244,1u,Frames I hope that helps. :) Good luck!
Former player
Joined: 7/14/2006
Posts: 51
Location: Mexico
I toyed with this game on the past, maybe i can give you some advice? Anyways, here's my old WIP: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1895838337/WildGuns%20WIP3-1.smv
Player (244)
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Glad the memory address is so versatile! Still looking forward to this.