Several people suggested I do a run of Sonic and Knuckles 3 to see if I could improve on SprintGod's run. I didn't think I could improve such a perfect run by more than a few frames, but it soon became clear that I was completely wrong about that. SprintGod's movie is full of amazingly precise playing and several tricks I have to admit I never would have found, but there were still some glitches he didn't find and some occasional slight imprecision in the playing. Also, he played 1-player with Sonic instead of 2-player with Sonic and Tails. Tails makes quite a difference, although my (extremely rough) estimate is that about 50% of this improvement could have been made without him. I should emphasize that I had (/made) much better tools for making this run than SprintGod had. Speed display + camera hack for each character + map maker + jump predictor + multitrack recorder... In any case, the result was a significantly (about 10 minutes) shorter movie.
LevelTimeUnits Improved
Angel Island 10:385
Angel Island 21:162
Hydrocity 10:3310
Hydrocity 21:0416
Marble Garden 10:3710
Marble Garden 20:3525
Carnival Night 10:348
Carnival Night 21:0838
Icecap 11:1611
Icecap 20:0041
Launch Base 11:3810
Launch Base 21:072
Mushroom Hill 10:462
Mushroom Hill 20:3723
Flying Battery 11:0836
Flying Battery 21:1498 (1:38)
Sandopolis 11:458
Sandopolis 21:2839
Lava Reef 11:1226
Lava Reef 20:51129 (2:09)
Hidden Palace0:260
Sky Sanctuary0:523
Death Egg 11:0427
Death Egg 22:1834
Total24:07565 (9:41)
I chose to not use death to save time, either in-game or real-time; SprintGod didn't use death either, and probably more people would be annoyed by it than appreciate it in this case. This also applies to entering bonus games, which interrupt the action and put you back at the last checkpoint and roll back the timer in a way similar to dying.
Thanks to Upthorn for showing how to activate the glitch in Icecap 1 and another glitch in Marble Garden 1, and for his Knuckles movie to give another source of ideas and comparison, and for giving some feedback about this movie while it was in progress, and for his recent work on Gens and help with some tools in it. And I believe it was mike89 on Sonic Center who revealed the Marble Garden 2 glitch.
See SprintGod's comments for a good explanation of the game's basic physics and quirks/glitches. Some more detailed (but currently very incomplete) information can be found at Sonic the Hedghehog tricks. A few things to add are: Acceleration is better in the air than on the ground, but deceleration is better on the ground (unless rolling) than in the air. Most of the glitches used to pass through objects work by tricking the game into putting those objects offscreen long enough for Sonic to pass through them, because the game does not do any calculations with objects that are offscreen.
Sorry for what I do to Icecap 1 and 2, but it is clearly much faster than beating it normally, and at least Icecap 1 has some nice music to listen to.
Some things that might seem like mistakes:
  • At the end of Mushroom Hill 1, Tails has to hit the signpost to the far left, otherwise Knuckles won't appear. I get a fire shield earlier because it is not in the ground anywhere on that screen to get from the signpost.
  • In Hydrocity 2, I have to wait for the third timed object, but starting that level enough later to save another time unit would place the first and/or second timed objects in places where I would need to wait even longer to get through.
  • The "teleport" glitch I use mainly in Launch Base and Lava Reef requires that Sonic be on the ground and at high speed from more than half of a screenful away (so it is not possible to use it in very many places), and sometimes it is slower even when it is possible because there is rarely enough time to do a full-speed spin dash when doing it.
  • Ending Flying Battery 2 where I do is actually faster than ending it with Sonic all the way to the right because of the jump, and the flying glitch I would normally do to save time is not possible there because of the type of ground.
  • At the very end of Hidden Palace zone, the game has a bug where it forgets to return control to player 2. The level won't end until both Sonic and Tails are in place by the teleporter, so I make Tails go there indirectly by using Sonic's command for a spindash as a jump for Tails.
  • In Launch Base 1, I run past a booster without triggering it because I am already moving faster than the booster speed, and rolling down that decline would be slower because rolling has a speed cap (which running does not).
  • I briefly pause the game before the fight with Metal Sonic in order to manipulate his random attack pattern into something better (the same one SprintGod had).
  • When Tails is uncontrollable, he can be tricked into landing early by jumping at the right height near him. But it is difficult to make him actually arrive anywhere earlier; the game will take away his control and teleport him to a predefined nearby spawn point when he has spent too much time offscreen, giving player 2 typically less than a second of control over when he starts flying (very slowly in the vertical direction) to reach you. He only arrives quickly at boss fights because the edge of forced screen boundaries will push him there.
  • The start of Mushroom Hill 2 (while offscreen) progresses more slowly than normal because all of the loops are broken (they are impenetrable walls that must be jumped on top of) and the springs and other objects are not there.
  • In Sandopolis 1, I don't use Tails to bypass the red spring under the sand river because it's not enough faster to avoid the next wait for a timed object.
  • I found a way to skip the midboss of Launch Base 2 that would save time, except it causes the timer to not stop for the extremely long cutscene.
  • The Launch Base 1 boss is "afraid" of Sonic and moves up when Sonic is in the air nearby it, so it's faster to kill it with Tails alone and keep Sonic always under it.
  • Sonic can't touch any of those moving platforms in Flying Battery without losing the glitch.
  • It's possible to zip further into the level in Launch Base 1, but doing so would skip the speed shoes and ultimately be slightly slower.
  • No death
  • Aims for fastest (primarily in-level) time
  • Ignores delays caused by bonus effects
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Abuses programming errors in the game (a lot)
  • Manipulates luck (a little)
  • One player controls two characters
  • Emulator used: Gens Movie Test 9j (works with 9f, etc.)

DeHackEd: Claim!
Bisqwit: Already done!


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Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
To add my opinion to the mix, I didn't like upthorn's screenshot because of the colours, I didn't like nitsuja's screenshot because it looked extremely boring to me, and I didn't like JXQ's and Bisqwit's screenshots because they are from cutscenes, which I feel isn't a good choice. I agree with xebra's latest post, I think the one from the beginning of Mushroom Hill 2 is excellent.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 275
Fabian wrote:
I agree with xebra's latest post, I think the one from the beginning of Mushroom Hill 2 is excellent.
Agreed. The current picture up doesn't tell anything about the run, other than things blow up. However, that one gives you an idea of how insane this TAS is, and without spoiling that much. I also liked the Flying Battery one that Nrg made, but it's not as exciting as the MH2 one listed above. Edit: So, a few buddies and I decided to have a TAS watching session. I think that this reaction sums up everything about the video: Nex: Whoever this guy HAS to be Giygas. Nex: Because he has RAPED REALITY AND TURNED IT ALL INTO MOONSIDE True story.
Active player (437)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
nitsuja wrote:
(Does anyone know of any other possible improvements?)
In Flying Battery Zone Act 1, 19:09 in your .avi, it should be faster to land on the first platform, then jump again as high as possible and then let Tails to fly you up.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Sir_VG
He/Him
Player (40)
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 1913
Location: Floating Tower
xebra wrote:
nitsuja wrote:
That one is really sweet.
I second this. This is an excellent screenshot as it's pretty, it shows how bad the game is glitched, and it's not an eyesore. I suggest using this, or the similiar scenario at the end of Ice Cap Zone Act 1.
Taking over the world, one game at a time. Currently TASing: Nothing
upthorn
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Active player (391)
Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802
AngerFist wrote:
nitsuja wrote:
(Does anyone know of any other possible improvements?)
In Flying Battery Zone Act 1, 19:09 in your .avi, it should be faster to land on the first platform, then jump again as high as possible and then let Tails to fly you up.
Interacting with those platforms would cancel the glitch.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
I just noticed the AVI to this run is 6 megs larger than the previous version. I don't know if this is supposed to be or not, I don't really know my AVI quality at all, nor can I spot graphical differences unless they are major.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Post subject: What the fuck...
Active player (348)
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 940
Location: Toronto, Canada
I'm arresting you for a (flying) battery assault on this game. You have no right to murder this game into tiny little smithereens as you have done. Shame on you, nitsuja! Just kidding. YES AND A STAR!
My current project: Something mysterious (oooooh!) My username is all lower-case letters. Please get it right :(
Active player (437)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
JXQ wrote:
I just noticed the AVI to this run is 6 megs larger than the previous version. I don't know if this is supposed to be or not, I don't really know my AVI quality at all, nor can I spot graphical differences unless they are major.
Maybe you downloaded DeHackEd's .avi of the previous run. I believe SprintGods run was the first time Bisqwit encoded a run with H.264 and it did not look as sharp and smooth compared with todays encoded runs.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 498
LOL, yeah, this run is just too ridiculous to find only one good screen. =P I attempted to make a compromise in the form of this animated GIF "highlights reel", but it turned out to be 473KB; it'd kill the page loading for sure on a dialup connection. XD I'd agree with the others: show either the Mushroom Hill or Icecap glitches. (Or maybe a simple animated GIF with just those two shots. It'd likely be a bit bigger than the other shots on the page, but certainly not as big as mine... =P)
Active player (348)
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 940
Location: Toronto, Canada
Sir VG wrote:
There's two modes: 1) Original. Same game, though the display is tweaked because of the different resolution. 2) Arranged. Spin dash added. That's what I know at the moment.
Don't forget bad physics, shitty framerate randomness and platform clipping. Honestly, the new version of Sonic 1 won't be worth playing at all. Also, to nitsuja: every time you destroy a Sonic game, God kills a kitten. PLEASE! THINK OF THE KITTENS!
My current project: Something mysterious (oooooh!) My username is all lower-case letters. Please get it right :(
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
JXQ wrote:
I just noticed the AVI to this run is 6 megs larger than the previous version.
I used a significantly larger bitrate than in the previous version, because I wasn't satisfied with the quality and I thought a larger file (than 160 MB, which is what it was going to be had I used the old settings) may be acceptable.
Emulator Coder
Joined: 6/8/2005
Posts: 236
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Excellent screenshot choice :D
Joined: 10/10/2006
Posts: 10
Location: StarDust SpeedWay - Rio De Janeiro
Man, you RAPED my favorite Genesis Sonic game! Man, I HATE YOU! lol Just kidding, your speedrun is FANTASTIC. It's so great that you made me lose interest in playing this game in the NORMAL way... One star? FIVE STARS OF COURSE!
Joined: 5/20/2005
Posts: 78
Location: switzerland
This video is simply godlike. Certainly the best tas runs here.
They say one should not speak unkindly of the dead, so I say Nice try! Tas planned. Dino city Secret of mana
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Just chiming in with the praise. I'm your loyal fan. What are you planning next? Sonic 1, Gunstar Heroes?
Joined: 9/5/2006
Posts: 61
Just a quick note to the effect that I've uploaded the run to Google Video (giving full credit to you and TASVideos), so that it may be enjoyed by more people in more places. Can't stop watching it, by the way.
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Truncated wrote:
What are you planning next? Sonic 1, Gunstar Heroes?
Probably a minor revision of this will come next. I don't plan on starting anything more anytime soon.
JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
Yeah you said that after Kabuki, Quantum Fighter, too.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
upthorn
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Active player (391)
Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802
JXQ wrote:
Yeah you said that after Kabuki, Quantum Fighter, too.
Maybe he just has a different perception of time than we do.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Joined: 8/13/2005
Posts: 356
Location: Canada
I voted now, after publication, for two reasons: 1) this is a badass improvement of my favorite TAS and 2) it makes that "meh" vote look even sillier.
Emulator Coder
Joined: 6/8/2005
Posts: 236
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
I really liked how, not even 30 seconds into the game, before you're even supposed to be allowed to begin the level, you bug the graphics. That's a good foreshadow of what's to come :D
Joined: 8/31/2004
Posts: 298
Location: Falun, Sweden
Just wanna say: Wow... That's extreme.
Bein' away for like five years, and not a single new post in the ZSNES forum... :'-(
Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
FreshFeeling wrote:
2) it makes that "meh" vote look even sillier.
The meh vote was acidental, it was meant to be a yes vote.
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
JXQ wrote:
Yeah you said that after Kabuki, Quantum Fighter, too.
Yeah, who am I kidding? But I highly doubt I'll find any game that's better-suited for TASing than this one. The amount of things that worked out perfectly is astonishing...
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
COUGHCOUGHCOUGGHYOSHISCOUGHISLANDCOUGHOUCGOHUGHU100%
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