Well... All of the sonic runs on this site (with the exception of Sonic Spinball, which doesn't really count) don't get the emeralds. They all have the "Ignores semi-important goals in the game" tag on them. I'd like to finally see a fun that gets all of the emeralds, and right now, you're as close as we can get.
So right now, this is heading for "Best ending" with maybe "Plays using a suboptimal character" or "Plays at hardest difficulty" as well. Because, like you said, Knuckles is meant to be the harder character to play.
Plus I've never seen the Knuckles ending...
I think you're missing something here.
I submitted this run a while ago but it never got accepted, and it wasn't becuase of a poor execution.
EDIT: I'd much rather see all the super emeralds being collected and thus gettting the Doomsday stage and thus a proper ending, getting the first seven emeralds and ignoring the rest just makes it a sorta kinda 100% run, the super emerald stages are actaully a lot more entertaining than the normal emerald stages since they actually look hard to do when watching.
Sonic 1 has no Super Sonic, so the only difference between that run and a 0% run is the amount of time lost to 50 ring routes, and special stages.
Only Sonic goes to doomsday, and for Knuckles the only ending difference between all chaos collected and all super collected is that if he has all the super emeralds, he glows pink.
Regardless, if I don't collect all the super emeralds, how can I justify collecting the chaos emeralds?
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Regardless, if I don't collect all the super emeralds, how can I justify collecting the chaos emeralds?
…So that you could use Super Knuckles? I don't know, I probably could just fastforward through bonus stages, but is there much point in such "filling the quota"?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Maybe the only way to "justify" not getting the super emeralds is to simply call it a Super Knuckles run, as if that is your choice of character. Getting all of the super emeralds isn't so bad, though. They seem to be shorter than the earlier bonus stages, and they make your goals a lot clearer if you're going to be getting any emeralds at all.
Joined: 6/20/2004
Posts: 292
Location: United Kingdom
nifboy wrote:
...Am I the only one who likes the special stages?
No, you aren't. Pretty mich everyone I know here (which is quite a lot of people) agree that all the emeralds should be gathered (and some even think that it's technically not even the end of the game if you do it without emeralds).
>Pretty mich everyone I know here (which is quite a lot of people) agree that all the emeralds should be gathered ...
I don't think they add much, except possibly for Sonic 3 (extra stage). Maybe you have a non-representative set of friends? If you see the submission topic for AKAs Sonic 1 Emerald run, you'll find quite a few people who disagree with getting the emeralds.
Congrats on your 2^8:th post though.
----
For upthorn, I understand your dilemma. Either no emeralds or all emeralds makes sense from a category standpoint. Going hyper would be more interesting for me.
Joined: 6/20/2004
Posts: 292
Location: United Kingdom
Truncated wrote:
>Pretty mich everyone I know here (which is quite a lot of people) agree that all the emeralds should be gathered ...
I don't think they add much, except possibly for Sonic 3 (extra stage). Maybe you have a non-representative set of friends? If you see the submission topic for AKAs Sonic 1 Emerald run, you'll find quite a few people who disagree with getting the emeralds.
Congrats on your 2^8:th post though.
Lol, Thanks. I suppose you're right about the whole representative thing. Maybe I'll see if I can get a few of them onto this site and put their views.
>Maybe I'll see if I can get a few of them onto this site ....
In the previous post you said that it was "Pretty much everyone I know here" - which "here" is that, if it isn't this site?
I don't mind the bonus stages.
Please, get Hyper Knuckles. =P
(I mean, even if I did somehow end up disliking them, there's a fast forward/skip button for a reason)
I don't mind the bonus stages.
Please, get Hyper Knuckles. =P
(I mean, even if I did somehow end up disliking them, there's a fast forward/skip button for a reason)
there's a fast forward button? The only way I found to make gens quick is to set a frameskip higher than 0.
I just finished watching this - It is interesting to see the alternate routes which can be taken by Knuckles...S3&K was always one of my fav. Genesis games - and I like how you didn't waste any time getting the Super Emeralds can't wait to see the last lot of zones.
Finally got back to work on this after taking several hits to my motivation.
Here is the updated wip. No further progress has been made, but it's more than 8000 frames faster.
Notable changes
3 frames saved in angel island 1
1 frame lost to luck manipulation, in Angel Island 2.
Completely new Hydrocity 2 route
2 frames lost to luck manipulation in, in Launch Base 1.
1 time unit saved in Launch Base 1
8 time units saved in Launch Base 2
Improved Super Emerald Routes
2 time units saved in Mushroom Hill 1
2 time units saved in Mushroom Hill 2
Completely New Flying Battery 1 route.
Completely New Flying Battery 2 route.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
upthorn wrote:
Completely New Flying Battery 2 route.
I have to say that this is so much better than the previous route. While the last one was interesting to watch, I'm not a fan of death in the sonic games..
Glitching through the beam wall and screwing up the boss is great, keep up the good work!
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
The improvements were very noticeable all around. But why hit the signpost and jump in Hydrocity 1? It didn't appear to change anything. Also, I wonder if part of that Flying Battery 1 route could save time for Sonic...
The improvements were very noticeable all around. But why hit the signpost and jump in Hydrocity 1? It didn't appear to change anything. Also, I wonder if part of that Flying Battery 1 route could save time for Sonic...
I didn't feel like replaying that at the time, I'll edit it out later and replace it with as short a pause as possible to prevent the Marble Garden 2 boss from changing patterns.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
29410 (Hydrocity 1, after boss): Why do you hit the signost?
31008 (Hydrocity 2): I'm not sure that I understand the relevance of dying here.
510?? (Marble Garden 1, after boss): Why do you pick up the fire shield?
554?? (Marble Garden 2 boss): How does taking damage save time?
624?? (Carnival night 2): Was there supposed to be a boss here?
666?? (Ice Cap 1 boss): Does spin dashing from across the screen allow you to hit it earlier?
1110?? (Mushroom Hill 2 start): Does the music not playing have anything to do with the timing of collecting the ring box?
29410 (Hydrocity 1, after boss): Why do you hit the signost?
Because the Marble Garden 2 boss is on a universal frame counter, which means that not having that delay will desync it. The final version won't have that delay, but instead I will pause the minimum amount of time necessary to get the same pattern I currently have.
Lardarse wrote:
31008 (Hydrocity 2): I'm not sure that I understand the relevance of dying here.
When Hydrocity 2 is loaded with a transition from Hydrocity 1, there's a lock which prevents the player character from going too far left. When Hydrocity 2 is loaded directly (on death, or from level select), that lock is not in place.
Lardarse wrote:
510?? (Marble Garden 1, after boss): Why do you pick up the fire shield?
To get a better position to start Marble Garden 2 with. The slopes are very particular about angles of approach.
Lardarse wrote:
554?? (Marble Garden 2 boss): How does taking damage save time?
The chain does damage. By taking that damage early, I can jump up through the chain and hit him while he's above it, allowing me to get one more hit in. I take the damage late enough that I still have invulnerability when I need to go through the chain on the right.
If you mean the second time, there was no way to get the 3rd hit in on his ascent without taking damage immediately afterward. It means I only need to get 2 hits in on the next cycle.
Lardarse wrote:
624?? (Carnival night 2): Was there supposed to be a boss here?
A lot of people seem impressed by this, but actually, no Knuckles doesn't fight a boss at the end of Carnival Night 2. Unless he accidentally ended up on Sonic's route, in which case he has to climb all the way up to where Sonic fights his boss.
Lardarse wrote:
666?? (Ice Cap 1 boss): Does spin dashing from across the screen allow you to hit it earlier?
Yes. Ordinarily Knuckles cannot hit the boss until the boss has begun descending.
Lardarse wrote:
1110?? (Mushroom Hill 2 start): Does the music not playing have anything to do with the timing of collecting the ring box?
Yes. It's a frame precise thing. I haven't decided whether it will be in the final submission or not, but noone has complained about it, so far.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
The run now completes the game. Now I start the final hunt for optimizations, as well as putting some final polish on the wait times. Here is the complete WIP.
No changes have been made to levels that were already complete, so if you made a savestate at the end of Flying Battery, or Sandopolis, it will still work.
Alright, for anyone who cares, now is the time to pick apart my run. Quesition anything that looks questionable to you, if it saves time, I'll do it.
To that end, I've uploaded a map of my Super Emerald special stage routes to http://upthorn.mspencer.net/temp/specialk.png
green is forward, blue is backward, squares are jumps, yellow stripes are airtime (\ for normal jump, / for yellow sphere bounce), and the black arrows indicate starting location and initial face direction.
I haven't mapped my Chaos Emerald stage routes, but they were heavily based on the ones SprintGod made, available here.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
