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I do not recall you [sic] being able to see how people voted. Maybe people voted exclusively for Super Mario Sunshine. Maybe people voted for Super Metroid as a second choice.
At the time of my post, Challenger's post was the only one in the thread. He stated that he felt that Super Metroid should win, but he added that he also voted for Sunshine. Although I didn't quote him, a reasonable person could conclude that I had read his post and was stating my opinion about it. It is also objectively true that Super Metroid (8.9, 9.9) has both a higher entertainment and technical rating than Sunshine (8.7, 9.5) from the community as a whole, not just from me (and you). In fact, Super Metroid has the highest technical rating of all 2064 movies. Yet here we are; Sunshine is going to win.
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I have seen all 2064 currently published TASes, and [3653] SNES Super Metroid by Sniq in 35:58.31 is my #1 ranked out of all of them. It is also the only movie that I have given a 10.0 in both entertainment and technique. I voted exclusively for this movie. It is the TAS of the Millennium. I would find it disappointing if [3731] GC Super Mario Sunshine by zelpikukirby & Goldfire in 1:08:32.58 ended up with more votes thanks to the "I guess I'll give my second choice a vote too" system.
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Warp wrote that paragraph on the voting guidelines page. It sounds too much like games have an inherent, objective technical value when these are supposed to be subjective user ratings. You have to believe that any movie can be 0-10 in either category, as long as the user can explain why they honestly feel that way. You may disagree, and that's why you have your own rating. Dragster is the best example of a very simple game that has been extensively examined to exhaust its limits, and so I gave it a 10 tech.
I think that "cool techniques" belongs more to the entertainment category. Zipping in Mega Man adds greatly to the entertainment, but it also clearly saves time, so it contributes to tech in that way. We don't know what the perfect time is for most movies, but tech rating shows appreciation for the effort that the author put into trying to perfect the movie. Tech rating comes from not just how optimized the TAS looks but also the details on the submission page and forum discussion.
Another factor is comparing movies today with the very early movies. I know what it was like to make movies in early 2004. They were often completed in days or even hours, utilizing little more than the save-state feature. Those are the kinds of movies that I would give a 0 tech rating. Whereas most movies made today have relatively far greater effort put into them, and so most of them earn a high technical rating.
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I rate tech based on how much improvement I think is possible. 10.0 means a game has been pushed to its limit. What would be the point of either ent or tech ratings if they were inherent qualities of a game (e.g. if everyone gave Atari games a 1 tech rating)? For both entertainment and tech, I think I should rate what the author has some control over.
Super Adventure Island seems fairly straightforward, and so I'm surprised it's that flawed, but I'll lower its tech rating. Giving so many high tech ratings may appear unfair to movies like [3358] GBC Pokémon: Yellow Version "arbitrary code execution" by MrWint in 05:48.28. But in those cases, the technical skill is a direct part of the entertainment, and so they get both high entertainment and technical ratings.
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Arc wrote:
I'm in the process of watching and rating every active movie.
1841 total active movies.
553 active movies rated as of today.
(695 obsolete movies rated.)
Which will happen first: I reach 100% or the rating system gets revamped?
(My goal is to reach 100% by 31 December 2018.)
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dxtr wrote:
When did you kill the 2nd bird on that attempt? I'm guessing directly by doing a backward kill, hence the late arrival for the 3rd bird?
But what if timing the kill so that the 3rd bird spawns and reaches the ledge the same time you get there?
Keep in mind that the reason to try this boost was the theoretical potential to cut down from 3 bird cycles to 2.
Basically, when you jump across the water pit, the 3rd bird says, "I'll meet you at the top right of the house in 16.8 seconds so you can boost out."
If you get there in, say, 13 seconds it doesn't matter, you have to wait for him.
What I was hoping for was that I could say something like, "No thanks friend, I'm meeting the 2nd bird there in 13 seconds."
But if you use the 1st bird to boost, it's not even possible to reach the meeting spot in 16.8 seconds (which would merely tie the current time). It takes like 18-19 seconds.
If you delayed killing the 2nd bird, the 3rd bird to appear would not be at the normal time of the 3rd cycle. It would be later.
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ERROR72 showed off this damage boost at SGDQ 2018 (timestamp 19:24):
Link to video
After seeing it, I didn't think that it would save time in a TAS, but I checked to be sure. It doesn't save time.
The birds are on a fixed timer and appear about every 5.6 seconds.
The timer starts when you jump across the little water pit right before the house.
(And so fighting the big guy doesn't lose time because you have to wait for 3 bird cycles anyway.)
You just need to get to the upper right part before the 3rd bird appears so that you can damage boost out.
There's still no way that you can get there fast enough to use the 2nd bird with the boost.
Even if you could, it's slower because of the setup at the 1st bird.
Instead of moving up and right, time is wasted going left and waiting.
In fact, the time lost using the 1st bird for the boost makes you too late for the 3rd bird, too (if you kill the 2nd bird so the 3rd bird appears).
It's a cool damage boost though.
My test here:
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Nach wrote:
Someone suggested we call it TASVideos if we define it as Tool-Assisted Superplays
Warp wrote:
Reminds me how a few people went to absolutely ridiculous extents to maintain that these were "timeattacks", not "speedruns"
I think that both of these quotes refer to me.
Bisqwit and I independently started our sites in Nov/Dec 2003 after being inspired by Morimoto's SMB3 movie.
Fortunately my old site is archived.
As of 25 Dec 2003, I had only real-time runs (except Morimoto's) and called them "speed runs." Bisqwit and I made contact with each other in Jan 2004.
As of 4 Feb 2004, I had the different types mixed together, calling them "speed runs (aka time attacks)." I called them "time attacks" because that is what the original mario3.wmv called Morimoto's movie.
As of 21 Mar 2004, to avoid confusion, I changed the title of the page to "NES Superplays." The movies were distinctly separated into "three kinds of superplay videos." A "speed run" was a real-time movie, a "time attack" was aimed at theoretical perfection (timewise), and an "aesthetic form" was an entertaining playaround (not time-focused).
As of 25 Jul 2004, I changed "time attack" to "timeattack" and added this sentence to the end of the definition: "Sometimes called tool-assisted speedruns."
As of 7 Mar 2005, I redesigned the site as "Arc's Superplay Temple" and added some writing, specifically about the naming and so-called cheating issue. In the expanded definition of "timeattack," I wrote, "I don't use the phrase 'tool-assisted' because it's a euphemism and it's a definition rather than a term. Even worse is 'tool-assisted speedrun,' which improperly categorizes timeattacks as a type of speedrun (which implies that the two are directly comparable) instead of as a type of superplay."
In May 2005, we discussed "tool-assisted speedrun" vs "timeattack" in this thread.
As of 29 Jul 2005, I considered my site "obsoleted" and jokingly added the category "Uses the term timeattack" to indicate that I was the only one still supporting the use of the term by that time.
The earliest available archive of Bisqwit's site is 29 Dec 2004. This is what the top left corner looked like then:
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Magnificent TAS. It's easily star tier, if not one of the all-time greatest TASes. For entertainment I give it a 9.7, which is in the top 10-15 all-time range. (Even a mere 9.0 to me means that a TAS is in the top 5% for entertainment.) I think that this TAS is worthy of a very rare 10.0 tech score. <1% of all TASes have taken the game to its limit like this.
-I gave this run 10.0 and RBO 9.8 for entertainment.
-Since there is a decree that there can be only two stars per game, I would give the two Super Metroid stars to this TAS and the 100% run.
-This TAS should also take RBO's newcomer rec.
-If RBO is obsoleted, then it should be on the basis that it is no longer sufficiently different from other Super Metroid TASes. That was the original ruling for why it was accepted. It could be obsoleted by a similar, better run that is not technically RBO, but it should not be obsoleted solely because of its age or a desire to condense branches.
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I watched the 'fixed graphics' version. In my 15 years, I've never rated a TAS as a 10 in both entertainment and technical quality, but I've always reserved that possibility for a Super Metroid TAS. The platform-adventure genre in general is the most entertaining and prime for creative tricks of all genres, and Super Metroid is the best for both aspects within the genre. With this TAS, I think that it has reached the dream of E:10/T:10. The cut into the elevator shaft (26:48) removed any doubt for me. This TAS is the shining example of kino. It is the absolute aesthetic of TASing on the basis of complete separation from casual gaming and speedrunning. It uncovers truths previously inaccessible to the human eye and possible only through a TAS. It should be the #1 Star.
Entertainment: 10
Technical quality: 10
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Memory wrote:
I also feel that too much attention is given to the ratings of movies. Now in the past they may have been a good measure of movie popularity, etc. but now movies frequently get little to no ratings on them whatsoever.
Ratings shouldn't be the only factor but they're a reliable indicator of which TASes to examine. YouTube view and like data is also available. (13.5 million views for a "not starworthy" SM64 TAS... ludicrous.)
feos wrote:
-We only star the same franchise on the same platform if the branches are substantially different ... I'm still unsure if you think our diversity requirement is a good or a bad thing.
-So 10% is arbitrary even if it's approved by admins, and 100 stars even if we have 9000000000 moons is not arbitrary?
-As for "comfy relationship" between Radiant and myself, are you sure you want me to link you ALL posts when it was the opposite of true? ... Your requirement is outright impossible. No one is able to fully understand all the good parts of all games of all genres. ... we listen to feedback.
My views on diversity may be confusing because I have a right-wing concept of diversity—diversity of skills or strengths. A good example is Masterjun's SMW ACE, which requires a completely different skillset than the two starred SMW TASes. The left-wing concept of diversity is based on identity, like when Coca Cola Kid or Jetpack got a star solely because they are on 'underrepresented' systems (admit it). Or OoT doesn't get a star because it is part of the Zelda franchise—as if all Zelda TASes were the same just because they share the name Zelda. The site tries to do both but clearly prioritizes the left-wing idea.
The starman page says to star 5% for each platform, unless the system is full of garbage games. Why 5%? Where does this number come from? The first part wants to assume, for whatever reason, that exactly the top 5% of each system is starworthy, but then it shifts to acknowledging the arbitrariness of this number since many systems will have <5%. Every system is different. You know Atari has zero starworthy games. The NES could have more than 5% that are worthwhile. Even so, the NES is actually underrepresented according to this 5% rule right now (NES should have 25 instead of 21 stars.) My earlier criticism was not against overrepresenting NES games but instead saying that some mediocre NES TASes got stars partly because the NES is a great system rather than because the TAS itself is great. A top 100 is a specific cap and thus by definition an antonym of 'arbitrary' and gives a star more allure. More and more TASes competing for a limited number of stars is a good thing. Star value would increase over time. Only the most awesome would get one, rather than some awesome and some not-so-great-but-at-least-we-have-diversity.
The starman should be leading the discussion, even when requests come in. He should outline the full case for or against a star rather than just agreeing 'yeah that's good I'll star it.' The forum members serve as a check on the reasoning. Isn't knowing games well what makes someone a suitable starman? It's someone who has rated a very high number of TASes and understands the full spectrum of TAS quality, has a lot of experience, and pays attention to what's going on.
[MOD NOTE: Off topic discussion about rude wording after this post have been split out. -Mothrayas]
[MOD NOTE: Additional rude wording removed. If you cannot make your argument without using rude and offensive wording, then you've lost. -Nach]
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feos wrote:
Are you saying diversity is a bad requirement?
A mediocre run should not get a star for the sake of diversity at the expense of a more deserving run, which was one of the primary purposes of my post. Ideally there would be kino TASes on all systems and in a variety of genres. But if that's not how the world actually works, you shouldn't pretend that it does. There should be diversity to the extent that it's actually deserved, but otherwise the emphasis should be on the highest quality. Affirmative action TASes only dilute the prestige of the star tier, and that's why I say to stop trying to fill arbitrary quotas and instead focus on respecting the greatest works and their creators.
feos wrote:
So far Arc suggests to overrepresent Mario, Zelda, Castlevania and MAGA Man even harder to fix that.
You are developing a pattern of intentionally misrepresenting my position because it is easier to attack than what I actually write.
Radiant wrote:
...that suggests that he probably should not be the new "star man".
I'm not surprised that you are worried about losing your current comfy relationship with the starman. You represent the flaw in the star system. TASes get a star based on forum shilling rather than someone who is dedicated to examining the pros and cons of every TAS and doing so without bias on behalf of what the whole community prefers. A few forum shills don't represent the whole community.
Memory wrote:
I think nominating your own movies is a bad idea tbh as well.
I didn't officially nominate anything. I objectively noted a list of some highly rated non-star TASes that the community as a whole appears to prefer over some of the worst stars. Is there really no one who finds it absurd that Coca Cola Kid has a star for the sake of diversity while the 3rd-highest rated TAS on the site does not?
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feos wrote:
Make your suggestions then :]
Here's my audit. In an ideal world, there would be 100 stars that are kino or cinema (because people would debate whether some cinema TASes are actually kino). But today the focus is on whether the lowest-tier joints (13, by my count) deserve their stars. The list is what I think is the consensus view, not my personal favorites. The parentheses after the TASes are (publication year) and (entertainment rating).
STAR KINO
(The absolute aesthetic of TASing on the basis of complete separation from casual gaming and speedrunning)
1. NES Super Mario Bros. 3 (USA PRG0) "warps" in 10:25.6 by Lord Tom, Mitjitsu & Tompa (2010) (8.9)
2. NES Super Mario Bros. 3 (USA PRG1) "arbitrary code execution" in 08:16.23 by Lord Tom (2016) (9.5)
3. NES Mega Man (JPN) in 12:23.34 by Shinryuu & FinalFighter (2010) (9.4)
4. N64 Mario Kart 64 (USA v1.0) in 20:33.32 by weatherton (2016) (9.4)
5. GBC Pokémon: Yellow Version (USA/Europe) "arbitrary code execution" in 05:48.28 by MrWint (2017) (9.4)
6. SNES Family Feud (USA) "playaround" in 06:46.28 by Heisanevilgenius (2009) (9.0)
7. SNES International Superstar Soccer Deluxe (USA) in 15:24.38 by Marcokarty (2010) (9.1)
8. GBA Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow (USA) "all souls" in 17:06.41 by Fz-last, klmz & Pike (2016) (9.6)
9. SNES Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island (USA v1.0) "100%" in 1:59:35.12 by Baxter, Carl Sagan & NxCy (2013) (9.6)
10. N64 Super Mario 64 (USA) "120 stars" in 1:20:41.52 by 15 People (2012) (9.2)
11. N64 Super Mario 64 (JPN) "1 Key" in 04:21.3 by 10 People (2016) (8.6)
12. SNES Super Mario World (USA) "warps" in 09:57.1 by BrunoVisnadi & Amaraticando (2015) (9.4)
13. SNES Super Mario World (USA) "96 exits" in 1:14:37.63 by bahamete, Kaizoman666 & Masterjun (2013) (9.3)
14. SNES Super Metroid (JPN/USA) "100%" in 1:08:15.74 by cpadolf (2013) (9.2)
15. NES Mega Man 2 (JPN) in 23:48.51 by aglasscage, FinalFighter, pirohiko & Shinryuu (2010) (9.2)
16. PSX Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (USA) "all relics & bosses" in 36:58.32 by ForgoneMoose (2014) (9.3)
17. N64 The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask (USA) in 1:29:32.02 by MrGrunz (2011) (9.2)
18. Genesis Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (any,r1) in 17:40.08 by Zurggriff & Aglar (2017) (9.3*)
19. Genesis Sonic 3 & Knuckles in 26:53.06 by Aglar & marzojr (2014) (9.1)
20. GC 007: Nightfire (USA) in 33:42.82 by FitterSpace, gamerfreak5665 & aleckermit (2017) (9.2)
21. NES Rockman 4 Minus Infinity (v0.02) "all items" in 34:43.72 by Baddap1 (2017) (9.4*)
22. SNES Super Metroid (JPN/USA) "reverse boss order" in 46:42.38 by Saturn (2012) (9.0)
STAR CINEMA
(Meaningful substance connecting emotionally)
23. NES The Legend of Zelda (USA PRG0) in 22:17.53 by Lord Tom (2016) (8.8)
24. SNES The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (USA) in 1:16:11.05 by Tompa (2009) (8.6)
25. NES Super Mario Bros. 2 (USA PRG0) "warpless" in 18:29.26 by Aglar & Andrewg (2011) (8.9)
26. Windows Cave Story (JPN 1.0.0.6) "best ending" in 50:10.3 by nitsuja (2011) (9.0)
27. Windows VVVVVV (2.0) "20 trinkets, no death mode" in 17:33.77 by Masterjun (2014) (8.9)
28. GBA Metroid: Zero Mission (USA) "100%" in 1:00:46.28 by Dragonfangs (2013) (8.8)
29. GC Super Smash Bros. Melee (USA) "Adventure Mode" in 08:42.75 by numerics (2013) (8.8)
30. SNES The Mask (USA) in 05:26.55 by BrunoVisnadi (2016) (8.8)
31. SNES Donkey Kong Country 2 (USA v1.0) "102%" in 1:21:31.88 by Dooty, NxCy & Comicalflop (2012) (9.1)
32. Arcade Magician Lord (JPN/USA) in 07:17.73 by £e Nécroyeur (2014) (9.0)
33. SNES Mega Man & Bass (JPN) "100 CDs" in 38:07.68 by sparky, parrot14green & woabclf (2011) (9.1)
34. GC Sonic Adventure 2: Battle (USA) "Hero Story" in 27:12.38 by THC98 & itsPersonnal (2015) (9.0)
35. GC Sonic Adventure DX: Director's Cut (USA) "Sonic" in 30:12.02 by THC98 (2013) (8.9)
36. PSX Rayman (USA) in 1:03:18.69 by scrimpeh & Got4n (2017) (8.7)
37. PSX Spyro: Year of the Dragon (USA v1.1) "117%" in 2:27:54.15 by Nitrofski (2014) (9.0)
38. N64 F-Zero X (USA) "Jack Cup, Time Trial" in 07:09.37 by jagg2zero (2016) (9.1)
39. N64 Bomberman 64 (JPN) "100%" in 1:01:36.02 by zvsp (2013) (8.8)
40. Genesis The Lost Vikings (USA) in 27:29.34 by Archanfel (2015) (8.8)
41. SNES Chrono Trigger (USA) in 2:17:08.86 by keylie (2014) (8.3)
STAR FILM
(Thought-provoking)
42. DS Brain Age (USA) "playaround" in 06:33.66 by Ryuto (2011) (8.3)
43. GC Super Monkey Ball (USA) "Expert through Master" in 12:55.18 by byrz & CyclopsDragon (2015) (8.6)
44. SNES Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 (USA) "playaround" in 30:28.38 by 3 People (2012) (8.6)
45. SNES Super Demo World: The Legend Continues (USA) "120 exits" in 2:02:04.49 by PangaeaPanga (2014) (8.6)
46. NES Gimmick! (JPN) "100%" in 07:44.45 by Aglar & Hotarubi (2010) (8.5)
47. GC Ikaruga (USA) "maximum score" in 21:29.4 by keylie (2015) (8.4)
48. NES Castlevania (USA PRG1) in 11:19.03 by Challenger (2017) (8.4)
49. NES Battletoads (USA) "warps, 2 players" in 11:04.72 by feos & MESHUGGAH (2011) (8.4)
50. GBC The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening DX (USA v1.0) in 1:00:02.68 by Swordless Link (2010) (8.4)
51. SNES Mega Man X (USA) "100%" in 33:07.13 by Hetfield90 (2016) (8.4)
52. SNES Mega Man X & Mega Man X2 & Mega Man X3 (USA) "300%" in 43:51.02 by agwawaf (2011) (8.3)
53. GC Tony Hawk's Underground 2 (USA) in 08:26.17 by Fog (2015) (8.4)
54. DS Super Scribblenauts (USA) "playaround" in 1:01:52.63 by Chef Stef & Kiwisauce (2013) (8.2)
55. GB The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (USA v1.0) "playaround" in 40:22.78 by bobmario511 (2012) (8.1)
STAR MOVIES
(Entertaining with hints of deeper substance)
56. GC Resident Evil 4 (JPN) in 1:35:29.67 by SoulCal Umbreon (2013) (8.6)
57. Genesis X-Men 2: Clone Wars (USA/Europe) in 18:46.97 by Truncated & Sonikkustar (2012) (8.5)
58. Genesis Michael Jackson's Moonwalker (World,r0) in 18:53.64 by Odongdong (2014) (8.4)
59. Arcade Metal Slug X (World) in 18:32.2 by x2poet (2011) (8.4)
60. Genesis Sonic 3 & Knuckles (World) "Knuckles, ring attack" in 1:14:55.9 by TheYogWog (2014) (8.4)
61. SNES EarthBound (USA) in 1:10:00.95 by pirohiko (2009) (8.3)
62. Windows Hyper Princess Pitch "Reallyjoel's Mom difficulty, best ending" in 15:40.48 by Tseralith (2014) (8.2)
63. GBA Wario Land 4 (USA/Europe) in 40:04.88 by andymac (2011) (8.2)
64. SNES Sparkster (USA) in 18:01.67 by Dooty (2012) (8.1)
65. Genesis Gunstar Heroes (USA) in 31:00.33 by Samsara (2016) (8.1)
66. SNES Umihara Kawase (JPN) "Sightseeing" in 11:44.77 by Alyosha, ars4326 & Samsara (2015) (8.0)
67. NES Gradius (JPN) in 10:52.35 by adelikat (2006) (7.9)
STAR FLICKS
(Merely satisfying viewers' entertainment demands)
68. GBA Sonic Advance (USA) "Amy" in 15:25.8 by GoddessMaria, Grincevent & VanillaCoke (2014) (8.1)
69. GBA Sonic Advance 2 (USA) in 17:41.1 by Dashjump (2016) (8.2)
70. DS Sonic Colors (USA) in 26:37.8 by VanillaCoke (2012) (7.9)
71. Windows Braid (World) in 22:15.28 by keylie (2013) (8.1)
72. PSX Mega Man X4 (USA) "Zero" in 36:30.1 by Bernka (2012) (8.1)
73. PSX Mega Man 8 (USA) in 47:06.23 by FractalFusion (2010) (8.1)
74. Arcade Marvel vs. Capcom (Europe) in 25:37.7 by SDR (2012) (8.1)
75. SNES Super Castlevania IV (JPN) in 29:38.08 by arukAdo, Bablo, Cardboard & scrimpeh (2011) (8.0)
76. GBA Ninja Five-O (USA) in 16:35.62 by Cardboard (2009) (8.0)
77. GBA Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time (USA) in 36:17.73 by theenglishman (2008) (8.0)
78. Genesis Streets of Rage 3 (USA) in 38:12.55 by atro city (2013) (7.9)
79. NES Excitebike (JPN/USA) in 05:29.44 by Lord Tom (2009) (7.9)
80. NES Ninja Gaiden II: The Dark Sword of Chaos (USA) in 09:14.32 by Scumtron (2007) (7.9)
81. DS Spider-Man: Shattered Dimensions (USA) "all items" in 34:20.91 by arandomgameTASer (2015) (7.9)
82. NES Super C (USA) "2 players" in 12:20.02 by Baxter & adelikat (2007) (7.8)
83. NES Battletoads & Double Dragon: The Ultimate Team (USA) in 17:41.14 by feos (2011) (7.8)
84. NES Super Mario Bros. (JPN/USA) "warpless, walkathon" in 25:19.23 by Mars608 & HappyLee (2014) (7.8)
85. SNES Biker Mice from Mars (USA) in 05:12.62 by Baxter (2007) (7.7)
86. NES Bionic Commando (USA) in 12:25.62 by nEilfox, Alyosha & Challenger (2018) (7.6*)
87. NES Arkanoid (USA) in 12:26.8 by Baxter (2007) (7.6)
STAR JOINTS
(Lacking complex themes)
88. SNES Pocky & Rocky (USA) in 18:40.17 by t0ast (2015) (8.0)
89. GB Trip World (JPN) in 05:10.91 by MUGG (2015) (7.9)
90. Genesis Golden Axe (JPN/USA,r1) in 07:01.95 by Mukki (2010) (7.8)
91. Arcade The Simpsons in 13:37.73 by adelikat & DarkKobold (2010) (7.7)
92. Windows RosenkreuzStilette "Grolla" in 25:28.53 by Hetfield90 (2016) (7.7)
93. NES Darkwing Duck (USA) in 10:59.5 by AnS & Randil (2007) (7.5)
94. NES Tetris (USA) "playaround" in 02:17.36 by Baxter (2010) (7.5)
95. PSX Warcraft II: The Dark Saga (USA) "Orc Campaign" in 1:32:51.75 by Flip (2013) (7.5)
96. NES Battle City (JPN) in 13:00.35 by N?K (2013) (7.4)
97. DOOM Final Doom (unknown) "The Plutonia Experiment" in 12:53.28 by Clumsydoomer & 38_ViTa_38 (2017) (7.3)
98. GB Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3 in 19:43.51 by McHazard (2014) (7.2)
99. GG Coca Cola Kid (JPN) in 08:26.47 by Samsara, ars4326 & dekutony (2015) (7.1)
100. DOS Jetpack (1.5 freeware) in 32:22.56 by slamo (2013) (7.0)
I'm not saying that all joints must go back to moons, but they might not be star-worthy. I think that they need to justify their stars. But it's a discussion, and perhaps something that I consider a joint is really a flick. At least one of these criticisms applies to each joint: (1) it was starred solely for system diversity, (2) it got an NES bonus (21% of stars are NES), or (3) there were low expectations of a decent game and so it got an overreaction star.
Now let's contrast with some TASes that aren't starred but could be. I wouldn't star all of these (just some of them), but I think that a lot of them are better than some of the current joints:
1. N64 Super Mario 64 (USA) "70 stars, no BLJ" by 16 People in 42:58.52 (2012) (9.5) - It has the 3rd-highest entertainment rating of all TASes. Absolute kinography. There should be an exception to the 2-star limit rule if all 3 TASes are kino.
2. SNES Super Mario World (USA) "arbitrary code execution" by Masterjun in 02:25.19 (2014) (9.2) - Evidently good enough for AGDQ but not a star because of diversity.
3. Arcade Metal Slug 3 (World) by zk547 in 24:27.8 (2017) (9.1) - Metal Slug X has a star with an 8.4. That star could transfer to this TAS, if not a star for both.
4. DS Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow (USA) "all souls" by Kriole in 35:08.59 (2012) (9.1) - Only 4 Castlevanias have a star and 2 are rated lower than this DS game.
5. FDS Super Mario Bros. 2 (JPN) by HappyLee in 08:04.83 (2017) (9.0) - It's classic Mario with a 9 rating.
6. N64 The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (JPN v1.0) "All Dungeons, Temples & Ganon Trials" by homerfunky in 1:42:29.53 (2017) (8.9) - There is no OoT star.
7. SNES Metroid Super ZeroMission (v2.3) "100%" by Hoandjzj in 1:19:30.64 (2013) (8.8) - Super Metroid hack kino.
8. DS Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin (USA) "Richter mode" by mtbRc in 16:57.28 (2017) (8.8) - Another worthy DS Castlevania.
9. GBA Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance (USA) "all furniture, best ending" by hellagels in 13:45.57 (2017) (8.7) - There's no star for this Castlevania either. Replace Super Castlevania IV if "too much Castlevania" is a problem.
10. NES Super Mario Bros. 3 (USA PRG0) "100%" by Lord Tom & Tompa in 1:04:36.9 (2015) (8.7) - Another run snubbed for diversity.
11. Wii Mega Man 10 (USA) "Mega Man" by diggidoyo in 33:42.37 (2011) (8.6) - Not that more MM is needed, but this 'system diversity' entry is above the MM flicks.
12. NES Super Mario Bros. (JPN/USA PRG0) "warps" by HappyLee in 04:57.31 (2011) (8.6) - The real SMB branch. Higher rated than the walkathon.
13. NES Zelda II: The Adventure of Link (USA) "warpless" by Arc, FatRatKnight, Inzult & Rising Tempest in 45:26.04 (2016) (8.5) - There are 3 Zelda II TASes, all 8.4+ rated (top 100), yet none starred. FRK's solution to get 2 fairies in the Valley of Death is a shining example of achieving the impossible.
14. Arcade Final Fight (World) by £e Nécroyeur in 13:31.15 (2016) (8.5) - Brought up earlier but still it's one of the highest-rated Arcade games.
15. NES Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! (USA PRG1) by McHazard in 17:39.45 (2013) (8.4) - Undeniably one of the NES classics. Good sport TASes are rare.
16. NES The Battle of Olympus (USA) by Arc & nesrocks in 09:55.37 (2017) (8.3) - Impossible hyperspeed maneuvering and luck manipulation.
17. Genesis Streets of Rage 2 (USA) by Sonikkustar in 22:58.57 (2012) (8.2) - This debate happened earlier but I don't know how SoR3 beat 2.
18. GC Crazy Taxi (USA) in 06:02.76 by solarplex (2014) (8.2) - Zany driving.
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feos wrote:
I'd rather not drop just because they are outdated
Habreno wrote:
if you're in favor of unstarring stuff because it's "old" I don't really know if I'd like you doing this.
My friends, I never advocated removing a star solely because of the movie's age. And if I were a starman, of course I would post my thoughts about adding or removing stars and open it up for discussion before taking action.
Arc wrote:
Some movies can't hold up as star quality after 5-10 years pass. Many of the ratings are dated to the time period when the movies were made.
Is it not true that SOME movies do not hold up as well today because of advancements in tools, scripts, and game knowledge, in addition to potential changes of taste in entertainment? Older movies should be examined from a modern perspective to see if they are still worthy of the star designation. Is that a controversial statement? Relatively newer movies should be subject to the same auditing process, too (e.g., a movie may not be star-worthy anymore if real-time runners found a method that's faster). It's about ensuring that all of the stars are the highest quality entertainment for someone watching today, in the current year. We want to avoid staleness. And I feel that before we expand beyond 100 stars, we should make sure that we have at least 100 movies that are unquestionably star-worthy, necessitating further growth of the stars.
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feos wrote:
Arc the limit has always been 10% of Moons. Right now it's 100 x 1117. We have 10 vacant places.
It doesn't have to be that way, though. Every starred movie should be kino (absolute highest quality) according to today's standards, rather than something that helped fill a quota.
feos wrote:
I'm having very little time lately to evaluate the suggestions. Probably I need to start looking for a successor.
This is my distribution of entertainment ratings. You may disagree with individual ratings, but as a group the ratings are a normal distribution.
Most of the highest rated movies are Zelda, Metroid, Mario, Castlevania, Sonic, and Mega Man. But here are my top 5 "underrated" movies (excluding my own creations):
5. [2608] GC Crazy Taxi by solarplex in 05:53.18. It really is a crazy taxi.
4. [3389] SMS Golden Axe Warrior by zoboner in 30:49.10. It's like Zelda on the SMS.
3. [3158] GBA Spider-Man 3 by arandomgameTASer in 13:44.01. Fast and dazzling movement.
2. [3334] NES The Goonies II by McBobX in 10:53.64. Surprising high-speed glitching.
1. [3006] GB Pac-In-Time by slamo in 27:31.45. It's easily the best Game Boy movie.
I also created the Quasars, a list of the 100 most kino TASes.
How do you explain this?
