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Patashu wrote:
If this was improved by 1 frame, it'd be 3:14.15 for the digits of pi meme. Worthwhile?
The actual time is 814362983/2^22 seconds, which is ~3:14.1592652798
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I've resynced this movie to use the official GB BIOS. Encode: Link to video I've also resynced this movie for the GBA BIOS, which can be used for console verification. If the author wishes, this movie can be used for this submission instead of the GB one. Encode for GBA resync: Link to video EDIT: Cycle count is missing for the submission so the time is wrong, the resyncs here correctly have the cycle count.
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Movie which avoids the accidental ACE usage.
Bisqwit wrote:
A reminder: ACE is when you either deliberately or accidentally construct assembler instructions, that did not exist in the game originally, somewhere in the memory, which are then executed by the processor. If your movie results in the processor executing instructions that were not part of the game program or which could not be generated by the game at runtime without explicit design by the player, then it counts as ACE.
I agree.
Bisqwit wrote:
There are games which compose instructions in RAM at runtime, and those instructions then get executed, but only if those instructions are composed from joypad inputs somehow without restriction to what those instructions might be, then that is ACE.
I agree to a point. If any corruption of these routines happen and these routines are executed with the corrupted code, then it should count as ACE.
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Well, I went through the options you have if you want to avoid save corruption AND ACE usage... and they aren't great (and while 2 are not save corruption, you could potentially still call them "save glitch"), besides 1 potential grace. 1. Gold ENG - Improperly initialized box data If the first save of the game is from the automatic save right before the Hall of Fame, then box data gets improperly initialized. Using this, a glitchmon can trivially be obtained, and used to skip past the guard blocking Mt. Silver, and Red can just be fought like normal. The main issue of this is simply that's it's effectively a carbon copy of the glitchless route until after Johto is completed, then Kanto is where there's any actual glitching (which at most is just to skip the guard blocking Mt. Silver, Red can probably be fought normally anyways/glitching an instant win is probably slower). Also, while this isn't save corruption, it's a glitch with the game's saving routines still. 2. Crystal ENG - Improperly cleared Battle Tower data/"God Egg" The Battle Tower has a "quick save" feature in it, being able to done after winning a round. If after a quick save and New Game is started, and in that New Game the Trainer ID is manipulated to be identical to the previous save, then the game will not clear out the Battle Tower data from the quick save. It will also put in the same party of the latest save into your party when re-entering the battle tower. This also effectively means if the latest save is before grabbing your starter, you will have 0 pokemon party after re-entering the Battle Tower. You can then proceed to get the Odd Egg from the daycare, which screws itself up if no Pokemon are present in the party, creating the "God Egg" which is essentially a glitchmon which can be used to glitch to the end. The main issue here is just a somewhat similarity to the glitchless route for the first 3 gyms, with some preparation done to win a round in the Battle Tower, then the first 3 gyms are done again before proceeding onto the Battle Tower a second time. Also, while this isn't save corruption, it's a glitch with the game's saving routines still. 3. Gold JPN - Improperly cleared Bug Catching Contest flags Teleporting out the Bug Catching Contest doesn't properly clear out the flags, allowing for Pokemon to be deposited/withdrawn from the PC before re-entering the Bug Catching Contest, which then can be "ended" and a glitchmon will be put into the party. Which then can be used to get to the end. Main issue here is I guess just JPN usage, which is something I wanted to avoid. Also, on the explanations on Mega Man and OoT, those aren't the only two examples I could of gave. Those were just the first 2 examples I could find. There's quite a bit more than that.
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And I retract my statement on this performing no ACE, it appears I was technically wrong, with accidental ACE triggered during the out of bounds Pokemon move swaps (apparently that didn't just immediately crash and just returned to normal game operation lol). I'll work on a movie which can avoid the accidental ACE usage.
Since the primary techniques are still the same, the only distinction is what you do with them, which is when it becomes a matter of technique optimality. Which is when it also becomes a matter of audience support.
I see the reasoning on this. Although that isn't what the judgement note is saying. The judgement note claims that both are using ACE, and one is using ACE sub-optimally. That isn't the intent of this submission, which is to completely avoid ACE usage (which did actually use it by a technicality, although it's trivial enough to fix anyways so). In fact, the judgement note implies if ACE was not a factor, it would be "harmless enough" for a new branch (although even then I still see audience support being a possible issue here).
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feos wrote:
Does it still corrupt RAM?
Sure. I would also like to note it is precedented several times to have published movies side by side which both corrupt memory, with a distinction one is a game end glitch (/uses ACE) and one isn't, so just "both corrupt RAM" doesn't seem to be a good justification (along with just corrupting RAM != ACE usage).
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This movie does not utilize ACE. That is a specific restriction I laid out in this movie, and it was followed correctly. While I do see reasons this would be rejected, "using ACE" is simply a falsehood and not a good reason. If you don't believe me, a simple lua script can prove ACE is not being used.
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Hello and welcome to TASVideos! For a newcomer, this TAS is fairly decent. However, there are some major problems with it: The easiest difficulty is used Difficulty choice is generally a preference for TASing. However, in this case, "easy mode" seems to be a particularly bad choice. Levels are much shorter than in Normal/Hard, boss fights are missing, and there are more levels with Normal/Hard. This is generally not acceptable, and I don't see a good justification for this choice here. This movie is also suboptimal Absolute perfection is not needed to be accepted. However, this movie should not be trivial to beat. It's fairly apparent from watching the movie that jumping seemed to make Mickey go faster, and I was able to use that to beat the first level 189 frames faster than this movie. I didn't delve too deep into this game's jumping, but it appeared that just staying in the air was faster than being on land. Applying that throughout the entire movie can have a fairly significant timesave. Don't be discouraged by this Aut0Plays2xmvet. I would very much recommend you TAS this game in Normal/Hard mode and optimize the movie as best you can for another submission. I also recommend uploading "easy mode" TASes in the userfiles rather than submitting them. Submissions requires rules to be followed, but the userfiles can hold any TAS you want.
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So by chance you can effectively enter into several different "odd modes" for the NES. At least for GB/C that can only happen for GBC and that's with multiple speed switches...
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Mothrayas wrote:
I don't actually disagree with the sentiment, but I would note that with two movies that are identical bar a one-frame improvement, and yet having almost two full points of entertainment rating difference between them, I don't think entertainment rating can be considered a very reliable indicator here. (Same goes for the other movie, which has similarly skewed ratings compared to its predecessor)
I suppose this is a good point. However, I would like to note that most people who voted for the original movie did not vote for the next one (and the ones who did were consistent with their rating). This is more a case of poor sample sizing that ratings get rather than the same people voting completely differently on practically the same movie.
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Encode: Link to video Copy pasting most of this from my post on the "deathless" run, since my opinion/criticism is largely the same. The movie wasn't really that entertaining in my opinion. Was neat in several places (especially with the usage of death abuse) but overall just seemed like a meh Super Mario Bros. run with a lot of deaths thrown in. While the movie seems reasonable within itself (reasonable/vaultable goal, improvement of published movie), I do wonder if this branch (along with the other published branch) should still retain the Moons rating. Let me explain, the original movie currently has an average entertaining rating of 6.2, borderline for Moons. However, the next movie had a significant drop to 4.3, which is very much Vault level ratings. All the improvements in this movie (as the author states) are just minor optimizations, and in my opinion, don't significantly impact the entertainment rating compared to the current published movie. Considering all this, should this movie inherit Moons or should it be downgraded to Vault (along with the currently published movie)?
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Encode: Link to video The movie wasn't really that entertaining in my opinion. Was neat in several places but overall just seemed like a meh Super Mario Bros. run. While the movie seems reasonable within itself (reasonable/vaultable goal, improvement of published movie), I do wonder if this branch (along with the other published branch) should still retain the Moons rating. Let me explain, the original deathless movie currently has an average entertaining rating of 7, solid for Moons. However, the next movie had a significant drop to 5.2, which is arguably Vault level ratings. All the improvements in this movie (as the author states) are just minor optimizations, and in my opinion, don't significantly impact the entertainment rating compared to the current published movie. Considering all this, should this movie inherit Moons or should it be downgraded to Vault (along with the currently published movie)?
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So, is using the USA version of Ghoul Patrol absolutely mandatory or is PAL/JPN allowed (well, PAL under normal PAL caveats I assume).
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eyesrise wrote:
Thank you for the responses. But, how do I enable GBA mode for GB/GBC games? Also, what is the difference between BSNES and BSNESv115+? Sorry if these questions have been answered before, but I'm new to the scene.
GBA mode is simply a console mode option for Gambatte (ie Auto/GB/GBC/GBA). In terms of SGB emulation, effectively no difference between BSNES and BSNESv115 (same GB core, and SNES emulation improvements don't really matter). Also BSNESv115 is experimental and not allowed for TASVideos submissions at the moment, so something to keep in mind if that is your goal.
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arkiandruski wrote:
By my understanding, the only thing required for 100% is that all items are gained through in game means. If you use ACE to set up those legitimate means, it still counts.
That does not count at all. ACE (along with its arbitrariness equals for ROM execution and memory corruption) are completely disallowed for full completion by the movie rules, and doing what you propose would also effectively be inefficient use of ACE (banned elsewhere!). Also, I don't know where ACE actually came into the equation here. Nowhere in here did jlun mention ACE.
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It somewhat depends based on what you use. SameBoy on BizHawk emulates an SGB1, while BSNES on BizHawk/lsnes(?) emulate an SGB2 (well, going off framerate anyways). SameBoy effectively uses "hacks" to do SGB specific emulation like borders/palettes/SPC sound and cannot utilize JUMP (well, that last part is irrelevant for nearly every game except Space Invaders or some ACE TAS utilizing it), however it ends up being the best in terms of the GB side for SGB TAS emulators. However, the SameBoy core is very very outdated so it ends up much worse than just using Gambatte with GB/C (which anyways, if console verification is on your mind, you should use Gambatte in GBA mode for the best chance on that). BSNES/lsnes don't utilize such "hacks" but while they technically have very accurate SNES emulation, they have very bad GB emulation (some parts are quite literally VBA tier). The "accuracy" of the SNES side really only affects all the bells and whistles the SGB has, while the GB emulation ends up being the main part affecting actual gameplay. Oh and I guess unrelated to accuracy, but on the SGB Left+Right and Up+Down inputs are filtered out by the BIOS, so if a game you want to TAS can heavily utilize such, you'll just want to go do it on the GB/C where they aren't filtered out.
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This seems to be rather interesting. Watching the movie, I was decently entertained, so I'm giving this a Yes vote. However, the movie has some other issues, mainly optimization. In particular, a glitch in the window washing section was not used. This glitch was publicly known via the TASVideos discord server, and it's actually rather trivial to find with Discord's search function (like you could just put the game name verbatim and this glitch is the newest non-#updates result, with applicable usage just a tad down). There is also another glitch with this game not used regarding slopes. This is a bit more forgivable as information about this glitch was not known publicly until after this submission. However, it seems to be very applicable throughout much of the game, and can save quite a bit of time. Considering both of these optimization issues, I don't think this run is acceptable. It's a very good attempt however, and I do hope to see a new TAS featuring both of these tricks.
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arnaud33200 wrote:
unless there is a way to archive it somewhere, let's just cancel/reject this submission
You can archive whatever TAS you want in the userfiles, and of course all rejected/canned TASes end up in Gruefood, and you can upload any encode on your own YouTube channel. If you are absolutely sure you want to cancel this submission, you can do so in the edit movie thing:
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Watching the movie, it seems to be rather quick and not exactly the most entertaining. Still, it is entertaining for what it is. However, it's still fairly meh, and stopping after round 3 does not help that in my opinion. Now for a layman's opinion on what this run's fate should be, which ends up falling under a certain rule: Is the movie complete? The rules state that a movie must reach an ending screen that positively signifies a game is finished successfully if applicable. This is applicable for this game, having an ending screen after round 69 (nice), which goes back to the title screen afterwards, indicating that the game has clearly ended. This movie only goes as far as round 3, and ends after that round. The rules do state that completing all unique content (ie a single loop) in a game without a clear ending can count as a completion. However, as seen before, this game does have a clear ending, so these rules do not apply. A publishable TAS needs to complete all 69 (nice) rounds, not just the first 3. tl;dr The game has a clearly definable ending, and this movie does not each that ending, thus is incomplete and not publishable.
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slamo wrote:
How major is the improvement?
Not sure exactly. For the total confirmed improvement, it's around 3.5 seconds. There are also further possible improvements I have yet to confirm work (not sure how much yet, need time to confirm).
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Requesting delay to implement newly found improvements.
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
I apologize for the late post... I'm wondering if this movie shouldn't obsolete the existing branch. For Gen II games, it isn't considered beaten after just beating the league, even though that DOES trigger the credits rolls. So why should FireRed/LeafGreen be allowed to beat just the first round of the league? And even in the case that it wouldn't be considered an issue, doesn't the existing published movie have too many redundant content with this submission? Even then, I think that it should be obsoleted by Round 2. Not sure if the label should stay there or be cleared.
Beating the league the first time is typically seen as a proper completion, with Round 2 being extra (best ending I guess?). Gen II is a very weird case to bring up, where doing just a Johto run nearly completely overlaps a run with both Johto and Kanto (the only things you would not do in a Johto only TAS vs a Johto+Kanto TAS for Johto would be the Radio Card quiz and getting less X Attacks, everything else would be identical). If you want a Johto only run, you can just watch the current runs and just stop once Johto is done and it will barely be different from a "pure" Johto only run. Along with those games being more exceptions in general. For here, you have to go catch 60 different Pokemon to unlock the National Dex, which would be interwoven with the general Any% stuff (which does help it slightly in terms of HM mons). There is also the Sevi Island sidequest, part of which is done in between Any% stuff (which probably helps slightly due to more exp). Imo these make this run significantly from Any%, and thus this run should remain separate from it.
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Have you already tried the jingle skip applied on the Elixier in Route 25? Even though it would require to be spotted by the hiker, it may still save some frames.
The jingle skip does not work for that item. 2 steps is too far for jingle skips to work.
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Also, the description of this movie says that Charmander may be better. Is that incorrect?
That isn't really correct for here. Perhaps in that movie where they don't need to worry about a Surf mon due to their main having Surf, and without any consideration towards red bar, and only considering until past Route 3, that would be faster. But for here Squirtle is still faster (and even more so since it is used past Route 3, where Charmander starts to fall very behind due to a far worse moveset).
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