http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Since the discussion has got to a standstill again, I'm going to go ahead and set down a policy here (based on above posts).
• If a game is known to be released exclusively in a particular region, that region's settings must be used (e.g. force PAL for Europe-only releases). This is similar to current rules for SMS games.
• If either region setting is valid, NTSC is preferred, although PAL is allowed. (This is similar to current rules for handheld/PAL60 games, even though the reasoning is quite different.) A NTSC version TAS can obsolete a PAL version TAS as long as it is faster and its technical level is equal or better than the PAL TAS.
Unless anybody has any significant objections, I will be going ahead with this.
Regarding PAL runs currently on the queue (assuming NTSC is valid), it's up to the author if they want to cancel the submission and redo on NTSC, or let the PAL run be accepted for now and obsoleted with NTSC later.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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openMSX 0.14.0 has been released!
This new release of the rerecording-capable MSX emulator features various bug fixes, additions and improvements. But it also added (initial) support for the Spectravideo SVI-318/328 computers, on which the MSX specification was based. That means that from now on, you can also TAS games for these systems!
Detailed release notes can be read here: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/openMSX/openMSX/RELEASE_0_14_0/doc/release-notes.txt
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Warp wrote:
I don't think it's a good idea to devolve this thread about history into a thread about current politics. While it's good to know history as to not repeat the mistakes of the past, let's just keep it at that: History. Let's just leave current politics out of it, shall we? Discussing current events only leads to flamewars, because no matter how civil people try to keep the discussion, drastically differing opinions will inevitably clash and the discussion will inevitably heat up.
I agree with this, and have moved the posts in question to here.
Admittedly it's hard to avoid politics in history discussion, but if people want to discuss the merits of contemporary ideologies they can do so elsewhere.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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I would say that if both NTSC or PAL are valid options, NTSC would be preferred, but I wouldn't outright exclude PAL runs. Sort of like handhelds and modern systems, except here there's still a framerate difference, and the difference is not actually in the ROM itself.
That said, I'm unsure if C64 NTSC runs that do the same things as PAL runs (except being faster because of NTSC hardware) should obsolete them - I'm leaning towards yes.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Well, we could say those publications were made prematurely without appropriate research (from a judging perspective) anyway, so we could replace/obsolete those runs without setting much of a precedent (or at least for a subset of C64 runs only). Let's not previous judgments and publications based on incomplete research define our new policy.
That said, I don't see why we should force PAL by default. For these games NTSC looks to be equally valid, faster too, and it would be consistent with general policy for pretty much every other system.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Are there any (relevant) version differences between the Japanese and USA versions? (Besides translated text/dialogue, obviously)
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
"not considered improvements" doesn't mean "not publishable". It means it does not count for obsoleting an English-language run, if that is the only difference between a submission and a published run.
Regarding this sub-discussion about newer systems, the relevant rule is here:
European versions of handheld games are allowed, but are not recommended. Use an (U) version if available. The same rule applies to European versions of more modern console games that support PAL 60.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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DyllonStej wrote:
Just out of curiosity, would this have been good enough to be submitted to Moons or elsewhere, if I didn't encounter the numerous desync issues?
If it would be a single movie file that starts from power-on, and ideally done on a patched ISO (I don't know enough yet about the Gecko + SD Card method but I think it could be made to fit in the rules), then I would say yes for sure.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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feos wrote:
If the argument against this run is that it uses a poorly modified version of the game, which is proven by the glitches that modification introduces, these "bad" glitches have to outweigh the good merits of the run to lead to rejection.
Does this movie have "significant technical and/or entertainment merits" over the NTSC run? I think that's a very legitimate question, and it is what your argument rests upon.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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feos wrote:
and "bad glitches" outweigh "significant technical and/or entertainment merits".
Says who?
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Fortranm wrote:
Mothrayas wrote:
That is not what the text you quoted says.
Movie Rules wrote:
Console versions of PAL games run at a lower framerate than NTSC games, running at ~50Hz compared to NTSC's ~60Hz, and the games themselves are often not modified or poorly modified to accommodate to the change in timing.
Sorry if I misunderstood it, but what does "poorly modified" exactly means here? If the game is not modified at all, then it would obviously be slower than its NTSC equivalent for being played at 50FPS instead of 60FPS if the frame count is the same. Does "poorly modified" means "tried to optimize speed but failed" so that it's still slower?
"Poorly modified" here means "attempted to compensate for the framerate difference, but did it in a poor way that introduces glitches or other irregularities".
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Fortranm wrote:
The very reason NTSC version is usually preferred is because PAL version often turns out to be slower due to its frame rate even if the frame counts are similar. If the PAL version run is still faster despite being run at 50FPS, there is no reason to prefer the NTSC version.
That is not what the text you quoted says.
Movie Rules wrote:
Console versions of PAL games run at a lower framerate than NTSC games, running at ~50Hz compared to NTSC's ~60Hz, and the games themselves are often not modified or poorly modified to accommodate to the change in timing. Due to this, PAL versions of ROMs are generally not allowed, unless there are significant technical and/or entertainment merits to using this version. See Rygar and Blaster Master for examples of good usage of the PAL ROM.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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DrD2k9 wrote:
If it is impossible to determine the release information for a particular rom, and there are no noticeable differences in gameplay (other than music/sound pitches and speed); wouldn't it be acceptable to consider either setting option as valid and select whichever results in a faster play-through for that particular rom?
That's what I suggested, and as I said I don't think there's a better option than this. I'll wait for some more input, but I think this would be the best way to go.
DrD2k9 wrote:
The other option that needs to be considered by the site managers, would be to not allow any runs for publication unless the release region information can be confirmed for a particular rom file....And yes, I realize if this decision was made, it would negate most of the submissions and the few publications I have in the C64 section of the site.
Enacting this policy, however, may also deter people from TASing for the C64 in the future.
This would be much too restrictive.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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DyllonStej finished his Project M Subspace Emissary TAS earlier today.
Link to video
It won't be submitted here (as it's actually a series of save-anchored DTMs, due to desync issues), but still a great watch either way.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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You can enable 'Dump Frames' and it'll dump a video that plays back at 60FPS regardless of how fast your PC was while encoding. It doesn't require having a powerful PC.
That said, I'm looking forward to seeing how this progresses!
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Thanks for your input, everyone.
It sounds like the best option here (to be consistent with the site's rules) would be to check whether or not the game was released in NTSC or PAL regions, and allow NTSC/PAL settings accordingly. As far as I can tell, this is the best option to verify a game runs on a mode it's intended to run on, as GoodTools info cannot be used for this purpose.
This is somewhat similar to the rules for SMS games, where NTSC timing is allowed based on whether or not a PAL game was released in Brazil.
Of course, then it might be complicated what to do with obscure media that release info can't be tracked down for. Maybe allow NTSC anyway in such cases? I don't think there's any better option there.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Spikestuff told me that mkdasher was going to convert/submit it, although it's been a week since then.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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An anime game with gameplay in the style of games like Snow Bros., Mario Bros. or Bubble Bobble. Contains 6 stages with 10 screens, and a boss battle at the end of each stage.
The objective in each screen is to clear it of enemies and other items. The player character(s) can throw blob-like animals at enemies to stun them, and then defeat them by kicking them, sending them sliding like Koopa shells (which can also be used to defeat more enemies). Defeated enemies release items that score points or power-ups that can increase speed, power, or add a second animal for faster attacks. In order to advance, all enemies and all items must be cleared, so for TASing purposes not only do the enemies need to be defeated fast, all the items they spawn must be collected fast too.
Here's a WIP of stage 1 using two players:
Link to videoChip Chan Pie
(Note that the video contains a lot of 30Hz flickering on the players, so watching the YouTube video in 720p60 is highly recommended)
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Mitjitsu wrote:
Can I request to one of the admins to provide an option which allows the submitter to state what system bios is being used.
Just write it in the submission text.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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I agree that Mupen64PlusHawk has failed to prove itself as a superior emulator choice to Mupen64-rr at this point. (The mere uttering of this sentence shows just how horrible the general state of N64 emulation is right now).
I would be up to unban Mupen64 at this point, but the main issue with it is still that it is a complete nightmare to encode for (as has already been discussed in the SM64 topic a week ago). If that were to get solved somehow, then I would unban Mupen64. (At least until Mupen64Hawk has sorted out its emulation issues considerably).
In the meantime, I'm open to further Mupen64 exceptions, if you get a publisher arranged for your submission in advance (like the recent OoT submission did).
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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There's been some confusion recently (involving a handful of submissions) over whether or not the C64 core in BizHawk is supposed to have NTSC settings available, or which of these settings should be used for C64 TASing.
I don't know enough about C64 myself to make any informed decisions on this right now, so I hope that people more familiar with Commodore 64 architecture can pitch in here.
• Do separate PAL and NTSC variants of Commodore 64 systems exist?
• Do separate PAL and NTSC variants of Commodore 64 games exist?
• If yes to above: is there any easy or convenient way to tell whether a C64 game is PAL or NTSC, or how to tell that a C64 game is running on right or wrong settings?
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
