Your point being? I was only discussing about why this submission wasn't entertaining to me. Whether it gets published or not is completely irrelevant.
True wrote:
Bullshit.
Otherwise glitch-to-end, ACE and Zelda runs wouldn't be accepted here.
Glitching and ACE is part of gameplay in my opinion. Also please refrain from insulting people that may have a different opinion than yours. Thank you.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(12)
Joined: 6/17/2006
Posts: 501
Thank you very much for the info Khaz!
Looking at the trunk though, am I wrong by saying that I need Visual Studio 2013 to compile the Windows build? I don't have $400 lying in a corner. If so, I'll have to wait for the next official release.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(12)
Joined: 6/17/2006
Posts: 501
Hi, I was checking if lsnes rr2-β22 was able to run a MSU-1 version of BS Zelda Map 1 and I noticed a weird behavior.
First, this is super minor, but for some reason I had to include the ROM file extension to the MSU and PCM files in my directory, but not the XML file. (ex.: 0e14.smc-2.pcm) I didn't have to do that under bsnes v070.
Once I figured that out thanks to lsnes's console log, I was able to play the game fine, but I noticed in the log in that in addition to the correct PCMs labeled 1 through 6, lsnes was also trying to load bad PCMs labeled 0, 257, 514 and 1542. According to the hack author this is an emulator bug, so I wanted to report it.
Let me know if you need further information.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(12)
Joined: 6/17/2006
Posts: 501
Does BizHawk still support MSU-1 games, and if so how do you configure it? I trying to run a MSU-1 version of BS Zelda in it using the compatibility core. Works fine in lsnes, but BizHawk doesn't even seem to read the XML file that contains the MSU-1 information.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(12)
Joined: 6/17/2006
Posts: 501
Kaizo-style hacks like this are rarely good TAS material. Dodging hidden traps perfectly is not interesting for a spectator not very familiar with the game. Also, when the route diverges from the intended one, nothing interesting happens for a while afterwards. In addition, I'm pretty sure this TAS does not showcase anything different from other Super Mario Bros. and Lost Levels runs. Voting No.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(12)
Joined: 6/17/2006
Posts: 501
Voting no because of how bad this bootleg is. Ripped-off level design, graphics and audio combined with terrible physics, all mixed up in a way that don't blend together. Even just looking at this submission, it's quite clear that the same repetitive actions are done to beat the game in an optimized way without any semblance of challenge.
The only entertaining part of this game is the nonsensical story and the absurdity of the whole thing, which is completely irrelevant for a speedrun, and yet looking at the positive comments so far it seems it's the only thing that caught interest.
It's the gameplay that matters for a TAS, and it's horrible here. If what you care about is the presentation, go watch a Let's Play - it's gonna be more entertaining for you.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(12)
Joined: 6/17/2006
Posts: 501
Tangent wrote:
SmashManiac wrote:
Really cool end game glitch! Is there more known details as to why and how the Lv. 0 glitch works?
The localization broke the coding on the Stereo/Mono menu (among quite a few other things) and instead of looping like it should, sends the cursor into the negative zone, corrupting a character's data by setting them to level 0 and all their stats to absurdly high values, and messing with a bunch of other things, the main thing of which is that it alters the affected character's name to some weird address in memory which makes things like save/load and battle results take forever.
Wow, can't believe I never encountered that before by accident. Thanks for the info! :)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(12)
Joined: 6/17/2006
Posts: 501
Arbitrary code execution runs are the best runs, so easy Yes vote for me! Sure it's a bit boring to watch the screen transition for 3 minutes twice, but it helps building the suspense and the payoff is so worth it!
By the way, considering the stairs overflow glitch was already known for Final Fantasy IV for a while now, I'm surprised that it took so long to find the same glitch in the original Final Fantasy.
I wouldn't be surprised if the same glitch also exists in other games in the series.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(12)
Joined: 6/17/2006
Posts: 501
Pauline items in this game only give points, so I find this category rather arbitrary. In addition, I haven't noticed any additional tricks compared to the currently-published run. Also, I find the NES port of Donkey Kong to be a terrible game to begin with, especially compared to the legendary arcade version. Considering all of the above, I have to vote No.
Except to showcase a port-exclusive glitch, the only categories I'm interested in for Donkey Kong has to be run on the arcade version, and it would have to be a time attack to reach the kill screen or a maximum score time attack.
hegyak wrote:
This is the "proper" Donkey Kong game. The only thing different from the actual Arcade game, is the "How High can you go" screen between levels.
It may seem like it at first glance, but that's actually far from the truth. The arcade version actively tries to set up traps to kill Mario which makes the game very challenging, while the NES version doesn't. It's not obvious just looking at videos, but it makes huge difference while playing it.
To give a really simple example from the arcade version, from level 3 onwards, simply holding right to reach the first ladder on 25m is impossible, and just to confuse the player, you can barely avoid the first barrel on 25m on level 2 by doing exactly that. On the NES version, that's never a problem.
Also, because of the way this game is designed, the number of flips is important to minimize too because of the flip animation. In this movie, it occurs 14 times. I know that at least be 10 flips must occur to finish the game in 9 half-moves, but what about the 4 others?
In any case, this may be the fastest route, but it has yet to be proven. As it is now, it's no better than just knowing the series of moves itself.
In addition to that, see this post too.
Summary:
These TASs were made for impressing AGDQ2015, not TASVideos. They focused on quick creation for playing back on an SNES with TASBot, not for quick completion and minimization. While there may be some demand for publication here of these TASs, TASVideos does not publish subpar TASs.
Isn't the whole point of the Demonstration category to allow these types of movies if they are deemed entertaining enough? There are multiple movies in this category that were sub-optimal at publication. It would be a shame to hide these movies from the public because of such a triviality.
By the way, about the Pokémon Red run, I thought you guys were able to use the EXT port of the SNES to connect to a network via TCP/IP when I initially saw the run. I don't know how feasible it would be to do it for real, but it might be a cool idea for a future year.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(12)
Joined: 6/17/2006
Posts: 501
Wow, I don't think I never knew about the Select trick! Such a random feature!
If this is accepted, the only Quattro Adventure left to TAS will be Linus Spacehead. Pretty cool! I hope someone will also pick up Quattro Arcade for TASing, as there are some pretty good games in this collection as well. :)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(12)
Joined: 6/17/2006
Posts: 501
Pretty impressive! Yes vote!
I own a copy of Quattro Adventure. The launcher menu indeed loads the correct game once selected.
By the way, the cartridge also have a dipswitch on the back, with positions A and B. Based on its back label, I believe its purpose is to select between 2 modes to bypass the NES lockout chip, but I don't know if it has any other effect as well. It's probably not important, but I wanted to mention it just in case it affects judging.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(12)
Joined: 6/17/2006
Posts: 501
Most likely a false positive, but I just wanted to mention that Google Chrome thinks BizHawk-1.9.1.zip is malicious and blocks the download by default. Not sure if there's something that can be done about it.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(12)
Joined: 6/17/2006
Posts: 501
As I have mentioned in the FF6 thread, I have a big issue with the softlock occurring near the end of the game. For me, this doesn't count as beating the game, falls in the "missing critical ending routines" criteria from the Judge Guidelines, and invalidates all the hard work that was put in this run in my eyes.
I don't have anything against glitched endings in general (on the contrary), but I do have a problem with incomplete endings. It's like watching a really good movie that would suddenly cut one minute before the end of the story.
As such, I am forced to vote No for entertainment, as I still feel betrayed, even one week after my original viewing, for watching a seemingly-amazing run that don't fulfill my most basic expectation. While I greatly appreciate the tricks and glitches showcased here and their technical explanations by themselves, it's all spoiled by that one issue which I can't overlook.
P.S.: I know that the Dragon View TAS was published under similar conditions, but I believe it was a mistake to do so and is a bad precedent that should not be repeated.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(12)
Joined: 6/17/2006
Posts: 501
jlun2 wrote:
DSTWO? 0_o
...I didn't expect that reaction. lol
jlun2 wrote:
The input file says "firmNickname yopyop" but the emulator actually uses whatever firmname you have set beforehand rather than that of the emulator. I had a feeling most people who would watch it on emulator would probably not change the default firmname, which is 6 letters long, so I used this opportunity to change the firmname to another 6 character word as replacement. This only affects the ending, and only the bad one.
Oh I see. Thanks for the explanation! That's an annoying bug for TASing though. I'm assuming the developers are already aware of this issue?
By the way, if this is published, I think it should be mentioned somewhere that this is a bad ending run. I believe the good ending requires finding all the hidden collectibles in the video game world.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(12)
Joined: 6/17/2006
Posts: 501
I've been playing the fan translation on my DSTWO, and I'm currently in the middle of day 3. The story is very bizarre, but the basic premise is that a haunted video game is being transmitted through Wi-Fi and playing it kills you within a week. The real world controls are absolutely craptastic and are without a doubt the biggest optimization challenge for a TAS.
While I'm fairly impressed with the walking, I think it could be a little bit more optimized. Still, it's hard to say for sure, and I believe the level of optimization currently present is better than what a speedrun could achieve and is worthy of publication.
That said, I find this game to be a complete bore even with the tricks and glitches showcased here, so I'll have to vote No for entertainment. However, I have to congratulate you for this record, since it must have been quite hard to achieve. Good work! :)
One last thing: I'm reading in the submission details that there's some emulator glitch showcased after the credits. I'm not sure what it is since I don't know what the credits should normally look like, but isn't it an issue for publication, considering input ends afterwards? Probably not a big deal, but I just wanted to make sure.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(12)
Joined: 6/17/2006
Posts: 501
I just saw keylie's amazing TAS with commentary on Twitch, and I have to point out a critical oversight that nullified most the enjoyment I had: the ending sequence is interrupted by a softlock and never completes. As a reference, this is what should actually happen.
Now, I don't have anything against glitched endings (on the contrary), but I do have a problem with endings sequences interrupted before the actual end. Personally, I feel that such a situation doesn't count as beating the game and falls in the "missing critical ending routines" category. That said, I know of at least one precedent to the contrary, so I don't think it would be an issue for publication, but it at least is an issue for me.
By the way, I don't want to start an argument in this thread. I just wanted to point out this issue as soon as possible. If someone wants to debate this, I think it would be better to do so in a separate thread to avoid going off-topic.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(12)
Joined: 6/17/2006
Posts: 501
In my opinion, to approve this type of submission, it needs to be tested against all possible dirty RAM and SRAM states. Simply impossible. Not to mention that True already mentioned that this test would fail.
But even if that was possible and the test passed, I still wouldn't approve it because it foregoes using Reset and Power, even though this is definitely possible for a bot to perform.
I like what the author is trying to do here, but it's a tech demo designed to work around technological constraints that can theoretically be bypassed. It only has value until a realistic solution to bypass those technological constraints is found.
As for entertainment, I'm voting No as it is slower than the current publication (thus not as entertaining for me), and because it's not the input that I would find entertaining in this case, but a successful recording on an actual NES.
