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100% glitched is normally only good for April Fools' submissions; nobody wants to see you glitch the percentage counter to read "100%". I guess there are some games where the fastest 100% route uses large-skip glitches (such as DK64); perhaps those would count. The problem is that the bit that's skipped, you eventually have to go back and do anyway.
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Thanks for the encouragement.
dwangoAC was busy with AGDQ, but isn't any more. Meanwhile, I'm busier, which means I have more time to work on the TAS (when I have lots of free time, I tend to work on things that require large blocks of free time and can be done offline; things that require online access, like the NetHack TAS setup we have, thus tend to be more activity for me when I'm busier).
The next step is still working out how to get a very large number of egg timers to work up (most likely, this will be done as or soon after we create the eggs). It's one of the remaining absolutely vital steps that hasn't been rehearsed.
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I normally define "glitched" as "sequence-breaks the overworld", a definition which applies to probably more than half of games, if not all. For instance, a run of Super Mario 64 is "glitched" if it opens a star door without enough stars, gets to a new level of the castle without the key, etc.. (By this definition, a non-glitched run is 70 stars, and a particular set of 70 that requires no sequence breaking in the castle itself.) Likewise, a non-glitched Pokémon run would not be allowed to enter the Elite Four without obtaining eight badges, because that's the officially stated (in-game) requirement for unlocking the endgame.
I'd also classify anything that collects items or other collectibles required for the category without physically performing the action that's intended to collect them as disqualifying you from the category. Thus, if you use RBA to gain medallions in Ocarina of Time, that's "glitched" not "any%"; the purpose of the medallions is to unlock the final level, so if you don't get them via the intended mechanism, you don't count as having them for categorization purposes. On the other hand, glitching behind the boss doors and getting them that way is perfectly legitimate for any%. Likewise, if you're doing a 100% run of Metroid Prime 2, you can't just collect 98 items and one missile tank twice (= 100% by the game's counter); you have to collect 100 different items (and may if you wish collect a missile tank twice and end up with 101% on the counter). This also works fine for the Crash Bandicoot 2 example ("glitched" = reach the boss via collecting all the gems, "any%" = reach the boss via collecting each gem from the level in which that gem resides).
SDA uses the terminology "large skips" for this sort of thing, which is pretty much the same, but more descriptive. "large" = you're skipping part of the game as a whole, rather than just part of a level.
I don't think this definition will work for all cases, but it can do a pretty good job of distinguishing "glitched" from "normal" for a majority of games. Anyone have some edge cases for the definition that they want to debate?
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I'm typically a sucker for low% routes in games where you gain abilities, so I'm watching this with interest. It's probably best to advertise the run as a route demonstration, because that's pretty much what it is.
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I believe that it's normally considered that glitching a percentage counter doesn't get you 100%, but glitching the individual items that contribute towards percentage does.
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I'm still upset that reallyjoel's dad difficulty in Iji is literally impossible. (Not only is there not enough time to complete the first level under the conditions given, but the programmer was aware of the fact, and thus didn't bother to implement anything past the first level.) A run like this, where the difficulty is obviously stupidly overwhelming but still possible, shows off what TASing is about.
(I'm also vaguely reminded of An Untitled Story, where multiple people have reached the final boss on the highest secret difficulty setting, but I'm not aware of anyone beating it. Actually, I think there's a speedrun that's been stuck there for years, trying to beat the boss. The worst thing is that the boss is obviously beatable, just has a very difficult section, and resetting to reach the difficult section takes 5 to 10 minutes.)
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I'm still opposed to the use of arbitrary initial RAM states, because they move so much of the manipulation time required before the run starts, thus allowing the runner to achieve a bunch of input to the game which they didn't have to spend input for. This is not an ideal example, but it helps to make the point.
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So far, though, Total Control setups look really contrived in all the games that have them. I'm not convinced you'd be able to pull that off without finding a new Total Controllable game, or a new way to pull it off in the existing game.
On the encouraging side, though, I believe that the vast majority of (sufficiently complex?) games will eventually have Total Control glitches found in them.
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I've found a bunch of skips in GP Legend, some of which are intended, some of which aren't (you can determine which via looking at what sort of times the developers wanted you to set in the timed challenge modes). My favourite is probably in White Land — Flower, where the skip takes me something like 10 seconds to set up on console, and I only have around a 10% chance of getting it, and yet it still saves time when I do. A TAS would make it look a lot cleaner, and pretty amazing as a result. (There's a pretty impressive-looking skip in Lightning — Volute, too, which isn't quite as hard, but requires a relatively slow vehicle for me to pull it off on Console; a TAS could do it under more difficult circumstances and so get a faster time.)
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Radiant wrote:
Patashu wrote:
Exploding the Princess is considered the 'best ending' regardless.
By whom? And how can it be a "best ending" if it gives the exact same ending sequence as not exploding the princess? That strikes me as contraditory.
It doesn't, there's a long cutscene if you don't explode her that is clearly designed as an ending (of sorts) to the game. In both cases, the game moves to an epilogue afterwards, but IMO the ending has already happened.
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100% in Pokémon is normally considered full Pokédex, isn't it?
I don't believe 564M is vaultable, anyway, via the definition of the vault. (I disagree with jlun2's point 3, though; glitching a percentage counter to show 100 is not normally considered 100% completion.)
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The description of ocarina items in the submission text needs changing; it says you use the slingshot for it, which you don't even get in this run. (Presumably it was copied from the last submission.)
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mkdasher wrote:
Edit: Indeed, not teaching Blizzard is faster. I'm redoing the last part now.
If you don't teach it, presumably you can save some more time by not picking it up?
Also, I think you can get at least one of those KOs that you previously got with Blizzard via using Water Pulse, which will be faster than Metronome.
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Great work.
Something I'm mildly curious about is, what made you choose that particular timing for opening the menu to equip the sword? Does it not matter at all, or is there some reason (luck manipulation?) to do it then rather than earlier or later?
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Arbitrary code execution runs don't really compete with no-large-skips runs, if they're both entertaining there's room for both. (Some people think the existence of one category makes the other less entertaining, though, but that's a relatively minor effect.)
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thatguy wrote:
Wow, a TAS of a SM64 individual level that actually uses the route intended by the designers, and still entertaining!
I thought the intended route for that star was to go round on the rotating cubes, rather than up via the red coin platforms; it seems that the designers intended the "Get a Hand" star to be inaccessible with time stopped, and the red coin platforms to be inaccessible with time moving.
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SDA uses the reasonably consistent name "no large skips", which is also pretty descriptive, for runs that avoid glitches that completely break the game but otherwise try to complete it as fast as possible. (The actual definition of large skips is debated on a case by case basis for each game, but normally a game's community has already agreed on it before the issue even comes up at SDA.)
A loose definition that applies to many games is "a large skip is something that sequence breaks the overworld"; for instance, in Super Mario 64, this would involve going past a star door without enough stars or key door without the right key, or in Super Metroid, this would involve entering Tourian without defeating four bosses. Sometimes it's hard to gauge exactly what that means, though.
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I think nmaster64 is responsible for the best argument on this general situation yet (over in the DKR submission thread):
nmaster64 wrote:
Take notes DKR runners:
5+ Hour Prep File, still timed. Man up.
It's possible that the DKR run would have been accepted as a newgame+ if it had a verification movie, though.
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My suggestions for the rules would be as follows:
- If you create multiple save files during the run (starting from a clean cart/memory card), with the timer running all the time, you can do what you like with them, and only have to complete the game on one of them, with no category implications (it can still be any%, etc.). This isn't going to to help for the majority of games, because it typically wastes time for no benefit, but in some games, it helps.
Example: [1978] SNES Super Metroid "X-Ray glitch" by Cpadolf in 21:25.12 (saves mid-game and copies the save file in order to be able to manipulate memory later on).
- If you start from a dirty save file for any reason other than unlocking characters, game modes or difficulties that would be locked on a clean save file, the run is a newgame+, and you must provide a verification movie that produces the save file in question.
Example: [1208] SNES Chrono Trigger "newgame+" by inichi in 06:42.77 (uses SRAM in order to start with better items and stats than normal, as part of an intended newgame+ mechanism in the game).
Note that TASvideos currently seems to treat such runs as being part of the "Demonstration" category.
- If you start from a dirty save file merely to unlock characters, game modes or difficulty levels, the run is not a newgame+, but still requires a verification movie that produces the save file in question.
Example: [2459] DS Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow "Julius mode" by mtbRc in 09:01.49 (uses SRAM to unlock a normally locked character).
- In games with no "battery saves", you can substitute a password (for games with password saves) or savestate for a save file, with the same implications as using a save file would have, including verification movies if the password is not obtained during the run itself.
Example (savestate, different difficulty): [1607] GB Super Mario Land "hard mode" by MUGG in 12:14.77 (uses a previous completion of the game to unlock hard mode; the game does not have a battery save feature, so a savestate is needed instead).
Example (password, obtained in game): [1144] NES Metroid by Lord Tom in 08:19.32 (you can see the password onscreen for a few frames at 2:00 in the encode; NES Metroid reuses the last obtained password when you start a game, so the runner didn't have to re-enter it; the effect of the password is to start with one boss defeated and many missiles, and thus it has to be obtained in-game to avoid making the run a newgame+).
- If a password was intended by the developer to unlock things and does not correspond to any particular save file, then it's not a save file password, but rather an entirely legitimate shortcut to set a new game mode. This is entirely unrelated to newgame+, but mentioned here to reduce confusion.
Example: [1363] PSX Castlevania: Symphony of the Night by arukAdo & pirate_sephiroth in 19:01.63 (the character name entered unlocks an alternative game mode, "luck mode", and has nothing to do with saving the game).
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I'd also like to mention that some games require trading between multiple save files to 100%. Pokémon is the most famous example, but that requires two consoles so it doesn't really count (and people have got 100% via glitches instead). A more obscure example is Hammerfight, a game I've been helping to route over at SDA: it requires trading between two save files to be able to obtain all weapons (the most obvious 100% definition for the game), but this can be done entirely within one play session, playing both games on the same computer (and using two mice in order to play them at the same time to do the trade).
Finally, there's the weird special case of [2059] SNES Mega Man X "password glitch" by FractalFusion in 16:56.88. The password entered cannot be obtained in-game via any means at all, and it glitches out the password parser in order to start with a combination of items that cannot be obtained in any other way. This is tagged as a demonstration and in a category all of its own, which I think is reasonable; it clearly doesn't follow the rules, but demonstrations are allowed to break some of the rules (that's the main unifying feature between them).
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About the "TASvideos only accepts realtime" thing: TASvideos' automatic timing software always uses realtime, but if you say that you're going for in-game time, the judges will just ignore the time given by the timing software and use the in-game time instead. You should feel free to use whichever suits the game.
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For people who don't know, when playing a GB game on a GBA or GBC, you can set the palette (color for backgrounds, color for sprites) via holding a key combination during the boot process. I think that's what BizHawk is simulating.
5+ Hour Prep File, still timed. Man up.