Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
How much time will it save?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
Stop creating these topics about "potential emulators" being allowed on the site. First, it must even be possible to rerecord with them. Second, it must be stable and reliable, proven as deterministic. We won't be doing research to answer your questions about them if you don't know whether they meet any of those requirements or not. It's like asking "Will a PS6 emulator be allowed? Will it be any good?"
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
When so many iterations were honestly considered final within such a short period, we can conclude that none of them was actually final.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
How many times within the last 2 submissions of this branch was an improvement considered final?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
Not when there are so many consecutive improvements.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
It was intentional, and it was designed as a clear cutoff, to fit all Vault cases.
Initially Vault only allowed fastest completion and full completion, and it was believed that for any given game there can only be those 2 branches eligible for Vault.
Then we discovered that there are separate episodes within some games, where you can play entirely different levels available from the start. Those count as separate games and we can have the any%/100% pair for each of them.
Then we discovered that separate game modes can work the same in representing entirely different gameplay, like fighting and beat-em-up modes in some fighting games. So we wanted to find this cutoff, and I think we found something very clear and reliable.
If you have 2 route options with just one character, Vault only allows one of them. Because otherwise it won't be limited to a single fastest branch per game. Therefore the unique difference a given mode provides should be inherent. I'm pretty sure it was meant to say unavoidable. Because once it's avoidable, it's a subject for Moons branches, which Vault games don't get to have.
Bottomline: I think the logic behind that rule was indeed designed to require unavoidable gameplay differences, not just options that you may ignore to make it look different.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
How is that a reason for specific publication order?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
It will be published when improvements stop arriving at the rate they have been arriving. Having a new submission of this branch every month with 10 file replacements doesn't look like any of those improvements is actually final.
Why do you need to get it published before 100% is judged though?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Independent game modes are treated as separate games, and are allowed for Vault as separate movies. Independent mode is defined as a one that inherently offers more than 50% of unique game-play (for example, more than a half of unique bosses or unique levels). This includes character choice and other in-game options.
If you forgo diagonal movement, your solutions in Pinocchio will be similar to those in Ottifanten. I can't call the difference between 2 games inherent. It's not like you're forced to go through 50% of unique levels.
At the same time, the rule wording doesn't require that you're forced to stick to a different route, it just says that such a different route is inherently offered. Maybe I'm overcomplicating this, and the meaning is exactly that?
My heart on the other hand feels that this movie has value as well, and outright rejecting it would be too harsh. You mention that this "easier mode" doesn't make it easier to stand out from unassisted play, quite the opposite. I also think that this kind of argument is more about Moons and superplay potential a given game has. But in Vault we also value clarity of a record. Being impossible even for a skilled human is a meaningful trait.
If not the possible full completion criterion in Ottifanten, I'd require that this movie is accepted and then obsoleted by Ottifanten. Ottifanten having more levels (I haven't checked yet) is also a good thing for a full completion kinda run.
Not sure if this solution is derived clearly from all the current rule wording (need help in terms of English language here).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
Reached level 18, I have no idea how to beat it.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/66144640781107698
From what I'm seeing so far, the released game feels more like a hard mode, purely because there's no way to truly move diagonally. However that's most likely an oversight in the prototype version, because with it you can skip most of the puzzles. I think they just patched it away (as a bug), just like infinite lives and level select. The "completely different" solutions look like just the way it was designed to work originally, not like intentionally/inherently unique gameplay.
Easier gameplay isn't what we look for most of the time, especially if the game is an interim draft, and the official release is harder.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
The previous movie was accepted to Moons, but the rating wasn't impressive. Can we have more feedback please?
Link to video
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
Zinfidel wrote:
I was thinking about what it would take to get a playaround for PSX Ehrgeiz published on the site, figured I could ask here. I've made a few playarounds for the game, where the goals specifically are "use all of the characters moves", "get a perfect every round", and "do the previous goals as fast as possible." My goals felt pretty loose, there aren't any agreed-upon speedrunning categories for the game, and I do questionable stuff like setting the rounds-to-win to 1 to keep the movie shorter. That is all to say I never bothered to try to make it "publication worthy" as a result.
The fighting game playarounds that are published on the site are all very extreme examples where the game is broken pretty badly, fast insane situations are set up, 2 players are used to make the action even more insane. I'm wondering, for a fighting game playaround, is that necessarily where the bar is set? I'm talking about TASes like Marvel vs. Capcom, Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3, etc.
I don't think it's even possible to play Ehrgeiz at a level that is comparable to things like Marvel vs Capcom, so does that mean it's a non-starter? If it's not a non-starter, what kind of goals or constraints might make an Ehrgeiz playaround publishable?
The playaround I talked about is here: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=497018#497018
Hard to give advises when it's about being considered art or not. I didn't feel much when watching that video. For a playaround to work, I think it has to look clearly superhuman/impossible even to people who're seeing this game for the first time, and also it shouldn't look like randomly hitting your opponent. Glitchfests are much easier to comprehend as superplay imo. I've written this page, but it's mostly about speed: http://tasvideos.org/TasingGuide/TASArt.html
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
Dimon12321 wrote:
Is it fine that one or multiple movies will require specific emulator settings in order to stay synced till the end? I don't know how to explain it, but Dolphin plays the movie correctly only if you set the Internal Resolution to 1x or 2x (with the applied window auto-adjustment),
but if it's 3x - the movie will desync for sure.
I don't know how many special conditions I will remark if I finish the whole series of verification movies by some miracle.
Yeah it's ok.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
What's the verification setup? Did any input have to be tweaked?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
Done. I think the major skip glitch class should stay, to indicate what this movie was thought to be, for historic purposes.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
Thanks! Yeah if layout is similar, inherently different solutions that come from gameplay differences are also a sign that it might be different enough. The 50% cutoff originated from when we discussed how a different character should alter gameplay to be considered a separate mode, and we allow separate modes for Vault. If 50% or more solutions will be different for Ollifanten, we can allow both versions in Vault. If it's less, we'll have to prefer one, most likely official.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
I don't consider this game as a prototype, as the officially released game features a game engine that was mostly rewritten from scratch.
Having the same level layout on a different engine would result in mostly similar gameplay. But having different levels on the same engine would result in completely different gameplay. We care about gameplay when deciding on vaultable differences, not engines. Because engines are also hard to objectively measure and compare.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
Does anyone know how many level layouts are different between this version and the official release? We have this rule for prototypes:
Movie Rules wrote:
Prototype game versions are only accepted if there is no stable release version available.
But if more than 50% of levels are different, then those can count as different modes and both be vaultable.
Samsara wrote:
Because, I mean, let's be real, I seriously doubt anyone is ever actually going to TAS Ottifanten anyway. Holy hell, it's so much slower and worse to play. You can't even walk diagonally! They regressed in gameplay from the prototype! Who even does that?
This version is probably better, but I can't figure out how to sensibly incorporate such an exception into the above rule. If gameplay is radically different, it's feasible to compare and measure the differences, but if it's slightly different, any superiority would be mostly subjective, and hard to measure for everyone. I'd argue that whether gameplay is better or not shouldn't be a reason to prefer the prototype version in Vault, because Moons is the tier where gameplay is meant to shine and please people's tastes, and Vault is for clear cuts and measurable objective things that are true for everyone.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
If you double-click on marker frame in the inputroll, it should spawn the text edit popup too. IIRC binding markers to input also affects wither they're saved to branches. I missed your question in the chat, it's better to talk here I guess.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
Video to draw some attention to the above
Link to video
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
Several verification movies is fine as long as they only depend on in-game saves and not emulator savestates. Recording from a savestate isn't allowed, because there's no guarantee it's legitimate.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
Can you use \n in hawk subtitles as a linebreak?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11270
Location: RU
The Update button/functionality wasn't mentioned, but I'll still add this vid to the tastudio post.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
