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I think it's finally time for the 2nd quest swordless run. Got remotivated about a week ago. I'm about 30k frames in. I estimate it should take a month or so more.
Edit: Currently in level 4. I have acquired the candle, whistle, ladder, arrows, wand, and level 8 triforce. Level 4 looks to be the hardest part of the tas.
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1147656535/zelda.fm2
There's the current WIP. Bomb management is much more of an issue in the 2nd quest. So much so that I may have to change the route a little with respect to lvl 8 since you need to use 6 bombs just to kill the dodongo bosses...
Edit: I went all the way to the bosses to see if the wand would hit them while stunned, but predictably it doesnt so 2 bombs per dodongo... :(
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TASeditor wrote:
jprofit22 wrote:
and am working out some problems with lvl 8 boss. :D
If some help is needed, I'm can help.
I was just about to edit my last post to invite you, Baxter, or both to the project. :D
I'll post a WIP before i go to work.
edit: what file storage site is used these days around here?
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TASeditor wrote:
Hopefully these small improvement don't mess with enemy behaviour...
Unfortunately they usually do, but someone might get lucky...
For all those who may care I have started the 2nd quest swordless tas. I currently have the whistle, ladder, wand, and am working out some problems with lvl 8 boss. :D
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ahh glad to see you take an interest marx. it looks like i won't have the time to help much with this now. i have 2 days off but am looking for a new place to live and that must take precedence. good luck with the run you 2 and i'll try and mess with stuff as i find the time. watched the test run and it looks decent. i cant really say i like a game over and would suggest avoiding that at all costs, but just for a template it looks good.
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Marx wrote:
Well I can help a few.
Some tips:
Feos second boss fight is sloppy.It can do same application as first one.
I was thinking the same although I haven't had much time to mess with it for a couple days. I'll probably be able to devote some time to this early next week (2 days off in a row).
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feos wrote:
Okay, then, when I am in mood I will resume test run, try improving it and post here. I would use this scheme anyway, because it's better to do the whole test, then totally redo, than trying to make each level optimized instantly.
Marx seems more interested in a no-damage pacifist.
Do you ever log into IRC? It would be much easier if you do. Either way we should pm so as not to clutter the thread.
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feos wrote:
Will you continue? I saved 3 more frames up to the middle of your 1-1, but 2 frames were lost due to tysons difference at 1430 and then I was too far forward, so a wall double-jump at 1735 landed me right on the warrior, while doing that jump a frame later caused me to fall off the roof in the first place. I use to give up once I get such crap, but it will be pointless if you stop it too.
You don't have to save trap floor frames in 1-1.
I would be interested in maybe doing a partnered tas with you or Marx if either of you would like to.
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Soig wrote:
HiipFire wrote:
Don't try to be nice and then "diss" someone. Pick on or the other.
Sorry, I'm very angry now due to those 4 guys...
Cancel it......
I hope you're not including me in "those 4 guys". I was simply giving constructed criticism. It would be easy to edit out the 2 or 3 shots that end up hitting enemies...
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zaphod77 wrote:
zelda 1&2 100%
100% runs would be slower and less entertaining. FOr Zelda 2, a 100% run would only differ by taking detours to grind exp and colect unused magics (and then not use them anyway) And in zelda 1, it's clear that the reason hear containers are skipped is because they aren't needed to win. ANyone can find all the secrets, the skill is in working fast with as few of them as possible. a 100% run would be considerably less skillful in both cases, and a TAS must showcase superhuman skill.
Although your premise seems sound, I must disagree here with your contention about Zelda 1. I believe it's in fact much more complicated to plan and tas a 100% run, due to having to manipulate a large amount more drops to make sure your health is full at the end of each dungeon. And that makes deciding how many damage boosts, and whether to save warp very difficult and can also affect your route.
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Wow, it looks like you're getting quite good at tasing this game. :) Only thing I saw was you lost a ton of lag frames the first time you went into the darknut room before the compass. You can wait before entering and have only 3 fireballs spawn, thus reducing lag there. It could be that you'll end up losing time anyway, but if you haven't tried it it's worth a shot. Keep it up!
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Very nice job! I do have 1 beef with this video though. In multiple places you shoot enemies that take more than 1 hit to kill, and while although technically you didn't kill them, you still injure them. Shouldnt "pacifist" be defined as "enemies take no damage except when necessary to proceed"? It's possible that this was for manipulation, but imo it shouldn't happen in a "pacifist" run. Healthy yes vote if these instances are edited out.
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I just watched your WIP on the front page and I must say it looks quite good. I saw a few places with possible improvements, but nothing too outrageous except for the end of Lvl 2 which can be easily fixed by having bombs. Keep up the good work!
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hanzou wrote:
Looks like there is very little chance of achieving consensus on the blue ring, 16 bombs, maps & compasses, enemy bait, the red potion, or even the 255th rupee.
jprofit22 perhaps you could hold a formal poll? I know democracy isn't perfect and you don't have to adhere to majority rule, but since the purpose of a TAS is to entertain it always helps to better know your audience.
Good idea! :)
As for the maps and compasses, i took a look and they're all kinda on the route. The compass in lvl 8 is the only one that seems like it would be a pain in the ass to get (only because there's like 7 of the mouse heads in there).
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hanzou wrote:
Good job you two! Baxter, glad to see that you are keeping up with TASing after all these years. I saw the swordless run tonight as well.
Comments / ideas for future runs:
* I'm probably behind the times, but walking out half a square to reenter the gambling cave looked slower than what I recall from Phil's old run (press left, not up, to reenter). Did a test and it seems still able to save at least one frame while maintaining the same randomness result: zelda_cave_reenter.fm2
The reason the cave was entered on the frame it was is because if you enter a cave on a certain frame after just coming out, it won't reset the overworld music when you go into the underworld and I thought this would be a fun little bug for anyone who noticed it. Because of the 4 frame rule to enter the underworld, you actually enter the cave (screen goes black) on the same frame as were you to enter the doorway 1 frame before, except that the music does reset on that frame. I was a little disappointed to find that it was 1 frame slow until Baxter told me to check the frame where we enter, reminding me of the 4 frame rule, and indeed it was the same :)
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Dacicus wrote:
Why didn't you use the movement glitch on the screen before the entrance to level 7? It seems like it would be faster to go through the menu section than to walk around like you did.
It is impossible to get to the opening that's the entrance to the lvl 7 lake. The black part at the top of the screen actually has a section of the screen you're on hidden in the black (its a slice of the width of the map screen between about the top, and 2/3 of the way from the top, including bushes/rocks/water/statues, and it's offset slightly from its mirror section below you). The problem below lvl 7 is that there's rocks blocking the opening.
Edit: It's actually a little faster to get to lvl 7 by just going up and then to the left, glitching past one screen and taking damage boosts along the way. Unfortunately with the upcoming enemy drops this would have made it extremely difficult to fill the life meter before collecting the triforce without having to make an unneeded detour to collect health. Also, the enemy spawn locations are dependent on your route and we got some pretty crappy spawns which gave me the idea to try that other route. Ultimately, we got much more favorable spawns and initial movement this way and I believe we ended up saving some time because of it.
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Toothache wrote:
Let's see if I can get a potential list:
Sword, upgraded fully
All heart containers
Arrows and Magic Arrows
All dungeon maps and compasses
Bombs, and all upgrades
Bait
Letter -> exchange for one of blue/red potion
Blue Candle and Red Candle
Magic Shield
Bow
Boomerang and Magic Boomerang
Raft
Ladder
Bracelet
Flute
Magic Wand
Magic Book
Magic Key
Blue Ring and Red Ring
In my eyes a 100% run would consist of all heart containers, bomb upgrades, and the final (most powerful) form of all menu items including the red medicine. I'm kind of on the fence about rebuying the meat. On one hand, some may argue that you dont have all item slots full at the end of the game, but these are probably the same people who want you to go back after you kill Ganon to get the coin it took to kill him. On the other hand, the meat is obtained and it's not the fault of the runner that it needs to be used to complete the game. I am leaning on the side of not recollecting it for the simple reasons that you see the runner acquire the item during the run so there's no question that it was in fact gotten, and it seems a bit redundant in a run of a game that's somewhat overkill anyway which will probably diminish the entertainment value slightly.
Baxter wrote:
Anyway, most importantly, is there even anyone remotely interested in TASing it? (As you might be able to tell, I'm sure as hell not going to :P)
I have played with the thought of running this goal just to do it. :D I'm not sure how submittable this run would be though. Would make a fun TAS to link to though.
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Baxter wrote:
Kyrsimys wrote:
Aah, I see. I knew there must've been a good reason for that. Thanks for the explanation.
It's a good explanation, but I have an even better one!
The bomb you saw was the bomb I placed (also note the bomb placing sound) to get rid of my last bomb when bombing the wall later on (for the automatic weapon switch). None of the blue darknuts dropped a bomb that I could pick up.
Lol, I guess I should have watched the part in question before submitting a response! I should have known though since you didn't flip $0050 too often and this would be the only way to get a bomb there (also i remember you taking a fireball boost in the previous darknut room and a boost off one of the ball things in the room right before, both resetting $0050). See what I get for responding to a question when I should be sleeping? lmao
Improved 4 frame. 1 frame input allows you to skip the first step of the stairs.