FWIW, regardless of how we call the actual input/replay/whatever files, we can still refer to our publications as movies (which is arguably a more suitable context for the word, considering how the publications are presented).
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I typically refer to it as input file or key input file in other communities as well. If at some point the site administration decides to make a move on this matter, I would support it and suggest "input file" as, at the same time, the most descriptive and the least controversial name.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
This has prompted me to come up with a comprehensive, for-the-record definition to refer to in later arguments (potentially).
A speedrun is a deliberate man-made playthrough of a given game from a defined start state to a defined end state in the quickest manner, delivered by the means of providing input via the accepted means, intended to entertain an audience or provide a technical reference, that satisfies the following criteria.
1. The start and the end states are consensually determined by the community (or communities) involved to be sufficiently unambiguous and replicable between competing community members. A community may introduce its specific restrictions but should still keep the rules clear and ground level for its participants.
2. The acceptable means of providing input are determined the same way as in #1.
3a. If a game can have multiple different combinations of start/end states (such as those including secondary goals or trade-offs) that the respective community appreciates and wishes to compete in (100% item collection, etc.), internally consistent categories are created. The default category is "get from the very beginning of the game (i.e. starting from clean slate) to the ending screen", as it is most generic and applicable to the largest set of games.
3b. Any minor goals or intermittent choices that prevent the quickest end state criteria satisfaction are to be forgone to at least the extent consensually deemed to be acceptable by the community members.
4. Any tricks, techniques, and strategies, as well as preparation work, are allowed except those expressly forbidden by the consensus of community members for the purposes of entertainment, longevity, and principles of fair play.
5. The success of reaching the end state as defined by the community consensus is to be determined by the state of the relevant memory address(es) or, in case that isn't feasible, inspection of the visual output and expected reaction to providing further input.
6a. If a speedrun is designed to be done by human skills in real time, the use of automation and other aides is to be reduced to the minimum consensually established by the community members. Other rules may be put in place to penalize the reliance on aides (such as segment break penalties) as deemed necessary by the respective community.
6b. If a speedrun is designed to be tool-assisted, it must have some kind of human factor involved (such as in planning, scripting, other sorts of decision-making).
Corollaries:
— An accidentally quick playthrough is not a speedrun.
— A playthrough without established and/or relatable goals is not a speedrun.
— A playtrough that repeatedly forgoes the quickest means of attaining its primary goal past the acceptable extent is not a speedrun.
— A playthrough that finishes the game in any way without completing its goal is not a speedrun (it could be considered a failed speedrun or a demonstration).
— A playthrough made using forbidden means is not a speedrun (it could be considered a cheated speedrun).
— A tool-assisted playthrough done without any human factor involved (aside from providing the description of the start/end states) is a simulation. Human factor—or rather the continued struggle against its follies—is the key to entertainment.
All this being said, just like with judicial systems, there is the letter of the law—the rigid definition that serves as a backbone for justice to be determined and served—and there's the spirit of the law that is the common understanding of what the law represents behind the technicalities. For me, a mistake-ridden playthrough that uses entertaining tricks and glitches and tries to be efficient and innovative even when it fails to be the quickest is still more of a speedrun than something that skips the entire game.
arandomgameTASer wrote:
I mean, shoot, remember when ACE runs appeared once a week? Hardly ruined the site then.
To be fair, the reason it didn't ruin the site was exactly that it didn't last long enough to cause irreversible harm.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Dang, you're right. I was looking at the Nico upload date. This is the actual chronology:
userfiles movie uploaded at: 2016-06-15 03:12:55;
submission #5145 submitted at: 2016-06-16 17:43:23;
NicoNico video uploaded at: 2016-06-17 23:20.
Oh well. I guess that point is moot then!
Edit: ...or maybe not. The userfile was uploaded hidden. By the time K&K submitted their movie, the Japanese team's TAS wasn't public knowledge, and K&K likely didn't know about it prior to submission, either.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
In case with Super C, the slower run was also in a slower category that was created primarily for the purpose of entertainment, which allowed some leniency in judgment, whereas both the FF6 movies in question strive strictly towards quicker completion at all costs.
That being said, I would have preferred this movie to be published and remain on the site until an improvement is submitted. There is merit to "it doesn't break all the known records" argument, but 1) it's still faster than what we have or might have in foreseeable future, 2) the route it takes can't be faulted for lack of optimization—it's still a properly done TAS.
Edit: To elaborate. There have been a few extremely controversial submissions, namely Zelda OoT runs by P.DOT and JNX in 2007-2008 who beat then-published TASVideos records but failed to be fastest known per se. There was a compelling argument presented that the old run was extremely outdated and "having less OoT on the site is also a good thing" (tongue-in-cheek, but hard to disagree with!), but it ultimately didn't happen because those movies were much, much sloppier than GuanoBowl's old run. Ultimately we had to wait for a submission that was at least comparable in terms of optimization, but still faster than realtime and much, much faster in terms of route and strategy. This FF6 submission is at least as good as the current published movie: it is faster, it is more entertaining (which everyone has agreed upon), and the only known way to beat it is by using another TAS-only strategy, so it has none of the controversy associated with earlier dramas. Literally the only problem with it is that a faster strategy was discovered while the work on K&K's movie was already in-progress. And when their movie was submitted, it did beat all the records existing at the time of submission. If that doesn't deserve some slack I don't know what does.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
On another note, I feel like people often stereotype participants of speedrunning communities, especially this one, to be extremely antisocial.
The stereotype stems from the apparent necessity to devote a lot of one's free time to the asocial activity that is speedrunning a game. This often indicates that the person involved either doesn't have or doesn't want social contacts to take place during this free time due to some personal real-life circumstances. And if you read some of the personal stories posted here, you'll find a degree of truth to it, so the perception is not completely wrong nor unwarranted, even if unnecessarily broad. After all, people rarely escape to videogames or other fictional worlds out of feeling of accomplishment—the opposite is way more likely to be true.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
VR could have literally thousands of triple-A games right now. The OR development kit has been around for about three years. They had plenty of time to add quick support to most existing games.
...Most existing games that people already own and are extremely unlikely to pay the second time for. I understand the sentiment (I'm giddy enough that some games such as System Shock 2 receive fan-sourced bufixes and facelifts), but hoping for something like this to happen officially is just wishful thinking, I'm afraid.
Let's face it. Adding support for features that do not exist in the game costs money. Fixing bugs and compatibility problems, as well as listening and responding to actual complaints, costs money. Re-advertising the addition of new features costs... you guessed it, money. As does the redistribution, as it has never really been free for anyone. So where do you expect this money to come from? People are hard enough to convince paying for something the first time; the percentage of the original audience who would be willing to pay again would never cover the costs. What about possible reputation risks, arising from disappointingly implemented VR in games that weren't conceived with it in mind, that might affect future purchases? Publishers know this, so they won't bother. Profit margins for new games are higher—that's just the reality of things.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Because that's exactly what I wanted: To be able to experience my all-time favorite games in VR. Instead, they are dissing traditional games completely, saying that VR "doesn't work" with them, and they have zero intention of adding VR support to them.
Well, of course they don't. Catering to nostalgia in this way isn't worth the investment. Which is understandable, because in cases with many (most?) older games adding VR support entails rewriting the entire rendering pipeline from the ground up. It's more profitable to make a new game.
Warp wrote:
They are instead adamant in creating custom VR-only games that work differently from traditional games.
Do they, though? What VR changes right now is making the camera control more awkward by making it equivalent to your head turning synchronously with your eyeballs, which is not how human eyesight works (and is hence nauseating for sensitive people). But the core gameplay hasn't changed, and the selection of genres hasn't changed. Besides, if a game is neither fun nor satisfying regardless of VR support, that's really the game's fault, not the VR's. Which is, again, understandable: if you take the time to develop a future classic, you will miss the fad cash-in. Publishers don't want that.
Meh, just wait it out. The initial fad will die, people will start thinking on the ways to bring out its potential, and we'll get some good games that will hopefully encourage further advancement of the technology.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Ok, let me explain.
They may say they're convinced it doesn't work with "traditional" games, but that's still what they're doing: same old "traditional" games with a two-axis viewpoint control. I haven't seen even a single fully developed, non-proof-of-concept game that would rely on VR instead of VR being forced on it.
I mean I've just googled "best VR games" and this was the first hit. Inside is the list of same fucking old games I played a decade ago—except they're now completely smothered with shadurrs and have... yes, a two-axis stereoscopic viewpoint control system strapped to your head! But nothing else changed. No new ways to interact with in-game environments, no new interface-driven narrative approaches, none of that. The original Penumbra tech demo probably did more for immersion and the concept of "reality" than all of that list combined, if only because it actually offered entirely new ways of interaction with a 3D game environment that affected the gameplay in a major way, while still using the existing technology. It used the latent potential of that technology that everyone else ignored, using realistic physics emulation to inform a player's decisions and provide them with methods of dealing with in-game problems, real-time lighting as a gameplay element rather than a graphics showcase, etc.
Valve does have a point in the sense that simply putting two eye-tracking displays on your head does not a virtual reality make. VR headset is really just a glorified way to trick your field of view in a way that erases the rest of the room from it (Google Cardboard is perhaps the most convincing illustration of this). It has a very long road ahead of it before it could seriously be called virtual reality. It hasn't failed yet because it hasn't really appeared yet—what you see is the embryo of the technology to come, which companies are eager to turn into buzzword and cash in before it gets good and they can cash in again.
I mean when you saw Tron or Money for Nothing music video in the 80s you didn't think CGI "already failed", right? It barely even existed back then.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I agree with the general standpoint of "identify your best skills first, find their applications second", but I think many of the critics take the "follow your passion" thing too literally, contriving it all but completely. It's evident in this article because for some reason the author attributes to Steve Jobs the teaching of Zen as the main passion of his life. This is incredibly contrived because that's just not how you define passion. Passion is the driving force that informs your life decisions given sufficient freedom of choice. Jobs's passion was to change the ways we interact with high technology and the ways we interact with the world by the means of high technology. He helmed the company that was dedicated completely to that goal, and largely succeeded at it (even if it wasn't the sole contributor) because Jobs made sure it was followed through. Things he had to dabble in, like marketing and management, were tools to reach and further this goal. His personality as reflected in his decisions, interviews, quotes, and biographical works written by other authors, should tell you that realistically he was nothing close to a Zen teacher, so how could that possibly be considered his main or only passion?
The point is, if you do something you enjoy and agree with, and if your career futhers your own life goals, you are so much more likely to progress professionally and not feel dissatisfied with your life, as your career and your interests amplify and feed off of each other. The results of your work then make you feel accomplished, and the process doesn't drain you mentally. It's a win/win.
On the other hand, those who fail to find a career that correlates with their interests in life tend to accumulate mental strain; this is expected because their life goals and their career goals go orthogonal, or even opposite of each other, inhibiting each other. Money doesn't alleviate this. It's exactly the same thing as marrying a person who you neither love nor respect. What good comes out of such marriage? And the worst part is that you can't just divorce and find someone else. I have examples all around me; people who hate their job but can't leave it because it's the only job they're competent at, and thus the only way for them to sustain. It's a very dangerous situation to find youself in, because if your current career doesn't let you accumulate enough surplus to afford a sabbatical, let alone a long-term career switch (which typically involves the expenses on re-educating yourself while not bringing in regular income, and having to start from the lowest points of a new career), you're as good as stuck with your initial choice for life. And when do you typically have to make that choice? At around 16–20, when you still know fuck-all about the world and even about yourself (I'm 30 now, and virtually none of my peers nor myself are the same people they were 10–15 years ago). It's presumptious to think people can generally make well-informed choices at that age. And the way Western economies are built, it's more likely for a person to find themselves in debt, rather than surplus, by the point they realize their initial choice was wrong.
I was lucky enough to switch from my initial, poorly chosen career, while I was still young enough to enjoy the benefits of parental support. I had to start anew from low-wage positions and rely mainly on the general bits of university education and the knowledge and experience I accumulated by myself over the years. Had I made a better, more informed, more conscious choice from the beginning, I wouldn't have to waste years of my life on irrelevant things that I morally disagreed with or otherwise found myself unable to enjoy doing. My new career(s) very much correlate with two of my actual passions: language and technology, so I feel very comfortable with them, intend to progress in them, and wish everyone would feel at least as much about their careers as I do about mine.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
It seems that everybody is hailing VR as the next big thing, something that will completely revolutionize gaming and take it to a completely new level. I'm just not seeing it.
I think you aren't seeing it because the way current VR games are done is, basically, take a normal game and tack on a two-axis viewpoint control. I mean, the current VR headsets still use the basic designs from early 90s, what do you expect? Even if you bring the constituent parts up to date, the technology is still old. What the companies are doing are attempts to bring a still very immature tehnology into a very mature market.
It will take a while before the market is filled with well-done games developed completely around the concept, coming up with gameplay that doesn't even work otherwise and narrative methods that exploit the potential of full immersion instead of trying to adapt the cinematic concept of framing to unrestricted viewpoint. I'm thinking it will take a while for the concept and associated technologies to progress and mature, too. VR probably won't be a big thing until we have basic olfactory and full-body tactile feedback capabilities. Or maybe until we have a more direct neural interface that bypasses the need to use physical controllers (and as such, physically move parts of your body around). Consider that, when you sleep, you can move and interact with entities in a dream, yet you don't physically move in your bed. That is the end state of VR, and the current tehnology is nowhere close yet.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
This is really off-topic, and I'll probably end up splitting the thread here, but let me humor you for a bit first.
Communism is neither a dream nor a nightmare—it's just one of the ways to build a society in the light of limited resources. It is more effective the more limited the resources are, and is often the necessary step to society's survival (eg. small-scale colony or a group of stranded people are typically much better off pooling their resources) when there's clearly not enough surplus to kickstart a working capitalist economy. Capitalism is similarly just a phase that is neither perfect nor final. Its limits were well-researched more than a hundred years back.
Additionally, many of the communist doctrines don't actually prohibit private property per se—the only thing they have in common in this regard is the need to share the means of production, i.e. have tools, factories, etc., collectively owned to prevent exploitation of labor (in the form of "I let you use my tools, so you'll have to give me a cut just for that while I'm doing nothing") and, consequently, prevent the snowballing effect of concentration of power in the hands of a few wealthy families. That is the only golden rule of communism, it has clear ethical implications, and it would be great if there was a political party who would concentrate on just that instead of piling up all the silly garbage all the communist states end up with.
The way communism was being built in the USSR was destined to fail. The country was way, way too huge to support planned economy long-term. Add to this the sheer incompetence and corruption in the upper echelons, the negative selection of the brightest people (by means of expulsion and other repressions), the disregard for many basic human rights, the rampant propaganda, the radical aggressiveness of territorial expansion, and the role of a human factor in man of its key falures. It was conceived as a country "for the people, by the people", but ended up neither. It would be interesting to see what would happen if it were the Mensheviks who ended up in power, as those were a lot more moderate and liberal-minded.
Unfortunately, the whole USSR situation has carried for so long and so many things have become equated in public view that only a very small portion of people worldwide have learned the proper lessons. I mean, nfq, you're saying: "Let's just create a communist society". Consider for a moment that Lenin and some other members of his close circle were some of the smartest people of their time who have spent several decades rigorously analyzing the sociopolitical context and the ways a communist society can be built. You cannot possibly do this on a whim, let alone as the logical end state of the society.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I wouldn't say the industry is in a precarious state. It is simply reaching the state of maturity, which is characterized by certain obvious trends:
— low barrier of entry for new developers;
— low barrier of entry for new consumers;
— consolidation of businesses;
— market content saturation;
— audience expansion;
— low rate of innovation.
It's a normal process for any industry. Gaming industry in particular isn't going anywhere, it's just changing. The adaptation is bilateral in the sense that many of these trends are susceptible to positive feedback loops; eg. low barrier of entry for new consumers means games are easier to get into, which brings in new audience that isn't willing to put in as much effort, who demand more accessible games, and so on. It's the same as cameras in cellphones: they were beyond awful when they first appeared, but people have started using them, which in turn prompted more models of cellphones with cameras included, and now they're the norm—even though it took some 7-8 years of worthlessness and sarcastic remarks before the technology became truly useful and usable.
Realistically the only thing that I do think is endangering the industry is the alarmingly rising trend of games with no clear failure state. A game that doesn't punish for doing badly is a toy, not a game. Such games don't trigger the necessary mental response that makes us engaged in the process and forces us to do better. If the gaming industry collapses in foreseeable future, so far I consider this to be the most likely potential reason.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
1.) How can you justify TASing? Why is it okay for me to be TASing if it makes me happy? What good things are it really getting me? What's your philosophy behind that?
It is a hobby. Hobbies are there to make you feel better about your life when everything else fails to; that's literally the reason for their existence. If they also make you better as a person by means of honing some particular skills or encouraging you to learn something useful, well, that's a very sizable bonus already. But it's just that—a bonus. Hobbies serve to make you feel better, period.
Note that the ability to sit down and do hours of grinding with a definite goal in mind is essentially what most office job employers are looking for. You just need to adapt your capability to do it to something that also brings you income. I know using the word "just" in that context is awful of me, but the point is it's still easier to get yourself into a mindset that you're used to if you see it as such. Of course, if you manage to find a job that is nothing like TASing, yet you still enjoy it and want to progress in it, well, more power to you!
Ready Steady Yeti wrote:
2.) Asking from the experience of others, how can one be successful and all that in college and high school and everything else and still be a TASer on your free time? How should you go about that? [...] As TASers, you all know that you have to spend tons of time on your TAS projects. But then there are also my real life projects. So how do you (anyone?) personally balance your time so that the important things that need to get done get done while also doing a great deal on your TAS projects?
Can't really say much about the college as it's been almost a decade since I graduated, but one of the possible solutions is to find a job or a combination of jobs that gives you ample control over your free time (for instance, I'm basically working a relatively high-profile part-time job and a similarly high-profile freelance job at the same time—and yes, it pays very well for the amount of time and effort I'm putting in). On one of those jobs I write, translate, and edit a lot of text—usually various documents, often related to technology. There's a lot of optimization involved to make sentences succinct, fluid, and on-point, attention to detail to weed out mistakes and poor word usage, as well as out-the-box thinking that is sometimes required to adapt a given thought in a non-literal but very precise manner. Apart from that, it requires a certain amount of research, and the process is typically a multi-hour grind. Any of that sounds familiar to you? Because all of those are abilities and skills required for TASing and those honed by TASing. There are other jobs like that; eg. programming, architecture and design, even various finance-related jobs are a lot like that. Hell, you can even apply all that to baking a cake. If you learn to see those aspects in a profession you're interested in, it's not unlikely that your passion for TASing will translate into passion for your job, and TASing won't be needed as much (true story!).
Keep in mind that if you want to be successful at your job or education, you first need to ensure they're actually enticing for you—i.e. something that you want to be doing as opposed to something you wish you weren't. Therein lies the more important question addressed to yourself: what it is exactly that you want to be doing, other than TASing? That one thing has to take priority, and by that I mean you just do it first and do it well, and the other things you just do when you're finished. Accept TASing as the second in line for your time (and preferably third, because social life is still very important, too).
The above also means you shouldn't really strive to match the output of the most productive TASers here because, while some of them are just that efficient at doing things, the others—and it wouldn't be a stretch to say that—are only able to reach that level of output because they sacrifice other aspects of their life, or don't have these other aspects in their life in the first place. For a hobby to stay a hobby it has to have lower priority than things that ensure your sustainable survival. This is the way it has to be, because excelling at the fun stuff while failing at other aspects of life will eventually make you miserable, and this feeling will poison even the best of fun times. If you sustain your survival, you automatically sustain your hobby as well and make it a more rewarding experience, so it's a win/win.
Ready Steady Yeti wrote:
My dad has known about my interest in the TAS/speedrun community for pretty much all the time I have been. He pretty much hates the community, he thinks it's a big joke basically, a huge waste of time and that "pretty much the entire world would not even care if the TASVideos community was shut down for some reason." And he's told me this so many times, and has (attempted to) take away the privilege of TASing from me so many times (even though I snuck and still did it anyway in various ways).
Your father's arguments naturally boil down to one thing: he wants to ensure your own long-term survival and the survival of your offspring. These concerns are hardwired into any parent, really, and it's not a bad thing; it just takes twisted shapes from time to time because parents aren't always mindful of it. If you can demonstrate that you're able to stand on your own two feet, or at least show enough determination to do so, he'll drop the subject eventually, I'm sure. In some cases it just won't happen until you move out to live on your own, though, so be prepared for that. If you feel your father is being too dismissive, you might want to confront him at some point and tell him that such attitude doesn't help you. Being negative about things is a poor motivation strategy in general, so unless he is a master of human psychology, which it doesn't sound like he is, he might want to reconsider his approach and help you solve your problems instead of creating new ones and exacerbating the old.
Another piece of general advice would be to make more friends IRL while you're young. You can never have too many, and it's almost universally useful. For instance, pretty much all of the jobs I have ever been engaged in I've found thanks to my friends. And in my experience, doing something for a hobby just doesn't compare with a good conversation or a fun party with close friends. It's truly a wonderful thing that you probably won't realize until much later; many things are taken for granted at 17, aren't they. :p
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Groups like gg require extra attention because they can do really well when they put effort into it, and they suck horribly when they don't—much like Commie and some others. I actually used their v2 for Penguindrum (well, actually Flep+Zurako, which was a BD release with enhanced typesetting based on gg's v2 with a few more fixes). That was the single superior option I was talking about, and it was largely helped by gg's project leader for Penguindrum bringing a super experienced TL on board for this series, 8thsin.
gg didn't v2 Bakemonogatari themselves as far as I'm aware, but that anon stuff I linked above seems to be the working equivalent of a v2, so I take that as the superior option.
8thsin actually did TLC Nisemonogatari for UTW, which is a clear tipping point for me in terms of script accuracy, and their typesetting is historically A-grade, but they had to drop it after episode 3 because of staffing issues which essentially made them disband. UTW's release appears strong in both script accuracy and typesetting, so it's unfortunate to have to choose between a group with inferior typesetting (CMS) and a group with botched lines (Commie) for the remaining episodes. At least Coalgirls' release which is based on CMS looks like the lesser evil to me. Them anniemays and their problems. :v
On a mostly unrelated note, apparently there is a sequel to FLCL coming next year, and it's set after a significant timeskip. Not sure yet what to make of it. I thought FLCL was perfect as it was and didn't need any sequels, to be honest. *shrug*
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
To be fair, both options from your example kinda suck. :( I had this problem with Penguindrum where nearly every line of dialogue carried a second meaning, a reference to past/future event, or something else of the sort. At least there was an option that was clearly superior to others in terms of both flow and precision. Not so lucky with Russian translations, neither of which I can honestly recommend to any of my non-English-speaking friends.
I generally agree that liberal translation can equal to better reading/watching experience. The problem is if it's not handled well—in other words, done without a high-grade editor + TLC duo—the result can ruin the experience completely by losing or irreversibly distorting the meaning behind significant lines, or, at the very least, introducing incoherent stylistic choices that easily break immersion (eg. an old person talking like a teenager or vice versa). So I usually avoid overly liberal translations unless I'm absolutely sure they're done by an experienced team, and prefer to err on the side of script accuracy.
Based on what I see here, the four available options for Bake often end up at pretty much the opposite ends of original meaning—exactly what I was saying above. Of those present I actually like Aniplex's the most (who would have thought, right?), but their typesetting is allegedly nonexisting (well, no surprise there), and it's been brought to my attention that these re-edited subs fix most of what is wrong with the ANE/gg release, including some major semantic inaccuracies, without sacrificing any of their strong suits. So I'm going with that for Bake. For Nise, I think I'm going to go with UTW for as much as they have done, and continue with Coalgirls (they use CMS script, which is a very lightly edited official script, with decent typesetting and uncensored) from there onwards. After that... well, I need to get there first, I guess.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Thanks. Any advice on particular translations for each item? Dialogue-heavy series tend to vary a lot in quality, which often has a significant impact on wordplay/foreshadowing/humor/etc..
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
So, I have been watching some more anniemays recently.
Ongoing
Re:Zero remains the highlight of the season for me so far. Which isn't saying much; clearly 2011 this is not.
Dropped Mayoiga. Close to dropping Netoge because the stuff that made it somewhat different from the rest ended a few episodes ago—it devloved entirely into generic crap since then.
Kiznaiver actually got interesting in episode 9. At least now that I know they aren't raising super soldiers to fight with a super villain or something else similarly stupid it succeeded at making me somewhat intrigued by the possible conclusion. The story seems like it would have benefitted from tighter screenplay and actual character development rather than the expodumps in some cases and utter negligence in the others. Being cute for the sake of being cute (those Gomorin...) probably wasn't warranted, either.
Kabaneri, on the other hand, is becoming progressively more generic and predictable. I mean, when we all joked about it being a re-skinned Shingeki no Kyojin in April, who would have thought how far the similarities would extend? At the same time KnK has nothing on SnK in terms of story, and characters are all about as shallow as they get. By about episode 5 they also seemed to have run out of budget, with all the static frame pans and whatnot.
Started watching My Hero Academia. Mildly fun, but too bad it isn't really trying to subvert or rise above the genre. It's a typical shouneny shounen with a side-dish of more shounen down to its core. Made me remember why I appreciate the One-Punch Man webcomic so much—there aren't many superhero stories that pack such tightly-written, thought-provoking narrative at all—let alone under the disguise of affectionate parody drawn by a five-year-old.
Also picked up Tanaka-kun wa Itsumo Kedaruge / Tanaka-kun Is Always Listless. A surprisingly fresh (ahem) protagonist that doesn't act like one; most of the other characters are pretty lovable as well and bounce well off of each other. Probably not something I would remember years down the line though.
Older stuff
Katanagatari. Was confused by the art style at first, but it quickly grew on me, especially when I realized how many things about this series were going to be intentionally deceptive. It feels like a comedy at first but is incredibly tragic under that facade (very similar to Kazuaki Kiriya's Goemon in many respects). Amazed by the writing: it's not often I get to see an action series with 50-minute-long episodes where at best 5 minutes is devoted to action, and the rest almost entirely filled by dialogues that... aren't boring! Spoken by characters that... aren't made of cardboard and stereotypes! Holy shit, is this still anime I'm watching?! AngerFist, if you're reading this, give this one a go. It's not all gory action, but it sets up and executes every fight so well you're being 100% invested in each of them and never feel like there's a lack of content.
Mawaru Penguindrum. Another series I could probably write an essay about, had I been able to put concisely into words everything that I thought it aspired to do and excelled at. This and Katanagatari were among the few series that prompted a complete rewatch even before I was even finished with them. Being familiar with the cultural and historical context helped a lot though—diving into this unprepared is bound to make you miss a lot of the between-the-lines stuff. And this series presents more messages between the lines than it spells out directly.
Welcome to the NHK! Nominally a comedy (I think I even laughed a few times), but really it's more a case of "those who served in the military won't laugh at the circus", as the Russian proverb goes. Every single character represents various facets of less fortunate life that I have either personally experienced or at least witnessed close enough firsthand that I don't find it very amusing, and they're also being brutally realistic at it, subverting almost every single expectation. Certainly not a series for everyone.
Shinsekai Yori. Interesting premise, decent execution, but not without its share of problems. For one, I can't say I appreciate the Shyamalanian twist at the end very much, and the overall pacing often feels like it would have benefitted a lot from cutting the total time from 25 to 22 episodes or so at the expense of some padded content around the middle and beginning. In the time it took it could have developed the supporting characters a lot better, too, imo. I get that most of the praise it received was largely banked on that twist at the end, but you've got to give other parts of the story due attention, too. I guess what I want to say is that I wanted to like this more but it appeared significantly lazier than it should have been.
What next
I think I'm finally ready to start on Monogatari... just need to figure out which order to watch it in and which sub groups to use. Aside from that, a friend has been pestering me with Umineko no Naku Koro Ni. Can't say I was a fan of Higurashi (hell, it bored me enough to drop after the first two loops), but I guess there's something that makes this one different enough? Also, Mob Psycho 100 will be aired next season; this gonna be good.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
You're sourcing MAL for scores, and you didn't notice Ajin was an adaption.
Please don't hurt me sempai, I promise I'll do better next time. :p
creaothceann wrote:
people often dismiss anime that don't agree with established themes, e.g. any occurrence of ecchi fanservice.
I think it has more to do with the vast majority of ecchi fanservice being neither tastefully served (done right: the "Gainax bounce", the foogasms in Shokugeki no Soma, etc.) nor meaningful for the story, if there is one in the first place (done right: Shimoneta, Panty & Stocking—too bad it wasn't enough to save either from bad writing and over-reliance on shock value, lol). It's a very cheap and low-effort way to profit off of hormone-raging shut-ins, and blatant creative shortcuts like these deserve being slammed imo.
creaothceann wrote:
12 parts so far. I only became a fan after my second attempt into it, when I was reading a blog alongside with watching the episodes to help me understand what I was seeing. It's been great ever since.
Yikes. Well, thanks for the tip with the blog. I'll put it on the back burner for now.
creaothceann wrote:
You also might have some success with running "enhancement" software like SVP, though I don't have experience with that. (Btw. there's a Sidonia torrent out there that is interpolated to 60fps.)
I'd probably live with it had it only been about the choppy framerate, but there's also the issue of characters ending up in the uncanny valley that makes them look like grotesque Lego figures. Well, now that I've been directed to the manga I won't have to deal with that, so win/win I guess. :p
What I don't understand is why high-budget projects like the Berserk movies and the upcoming TV series still fall victims to many of these issues (choppiness in particular). I mean if you look at Rebuild of Evangelion, or some of the acclaimed Production I.G works (GitS:SAC, Psycho-Pass), or the recent UC Gundam OVAs, that stuff is almost entirely done in CG but doesn't look like shit... and most of the time you can't even tell it's CG. Berserk is the world's most acclaimed manga, and the studios responsible for animating it still can't do anything better than the hand-drawn TV adaptation from 1997. It's almost like I'm playing the movie on some game engine in real time on an Xbox 360-era hardware.
EDIT: Ok, I've read all the released Ajin chapters so far, and it's pretty damn solid. Premise-wise it's kind of what Elfen Lied aimed to be, except with better everything and without all the stupid. I especially like how creative the author is with regards to demi-humans' tactical use of their abilities, especially in some of the later chapters; it's perhaps the best sci-fi action I've read since Gantz (Gantz:G is such a shameless self-plagiarizing cash-grab I won't even count it). Assuming the upcoming feature-length movies have better animation budgets I might watch those as well.
I also read all the Sakamoto manga up through chapter 19 (can't find anything more recent online), and it's mildly fun. Think One-Punch Man in Great Teacher Onizuka-like setting. Some of the joke setups are pretty clever though; the porn DVD chapter, for one, is legit good comedy.
Speaking of OPM, be sure to read the Monster Association/Garou arc in the webcomic. It's bloody fantastic, and the manga is still at least a year away from finishing the improved version.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I have noticed that with many anime series watching the first episode only is not actually enough to get a good picture of what it is really about, or even if you will like it or not. For some reason, it seems, many anime series do not use the standard American TV show method of trying to hook you with the first episode of the series and maximize retention rates that way. Instead, the "introduction" to the actual idea of the show might take even up to three or four episodes sometimes.
This is exactly the case, for better or for worse, which is why I'm usually asking around before having to spend 1–2 hours trying just to see if the thing is worth spending several more hours on. That being said, some of the more popular series of the past few years have actually managed to successfully execute the hooking approach.
creaothceann wrote:
If you look back at the summaries of your favorite anime (e.g. at myanimelist or elsewhere), you'll often see that the premise sounds either insane, misleading or even incredibly boring.
To be fair, that often remains the case regardless of me ending up watching, dropping, or ignoring them. :p
I do agree that a lot of time a show with a lackluster premise can be saved by its execution; eg. One Piece is, for all intents and purposes, the most typical Tom Sawyer-ish shounen adventure story there is, with all of its bog-standard tropes played completely straight, but its huge cast of unique (and mostly fleshed-out) characters, legit good comedy, and pretty incredible attention to the overarching storyline elevates it above most of its competition that has or would have easily run out of steam in half the number of episodes OP has been pushing. But it still remains a shounen, and as such more of a feel-good guilty pleasure of mine that I'm not actively searching replacements for. :p
creaothceann wrote:
But there's been Ajin, Boku dake ga Inai Machi, Gate: Jieitai Kanochi nite, Hai to Gensou no Grimgar, Heavy Object, Kaku Tatakaeri 2nd Season, Kono Subarashii Sekai ni Shukufuku wo!, Koukaku no Pandora, Koyomimonogatari, Little Witch Academia: Mahoujikake no Parade, Noragami Aragoto, One Punch Man, Oshiete! Galko-chan, Owarimonogatari, Shinmai Maou no Testament Burst, Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu, Ushio to Tora, Valkyrie Drive: Mermaid
Most of those I haven't watched at all. To be fair a lot of them seem like the typical cliche'd anime fare with no distinguishing traits which is why I haven't bothered. I mean I have watched most of what would be considered the standard-defining pillars of their respective genres, at least those I had any interest in, so any new work in those genres must have something that makes it stand out in terms of either writing, execution, or overall interaction with genre boundaries. If a show attempts nothing of the sort and just checks every major trope expected of it, it's very unlikely that I consider it at all, let alone put a high priority on it. Sometimes I sample things that end up with a high rating, but in my experience that serves as a rather poor indicator most of the time; basically anything between ~7.4 and ~8.8 on MAL is a total crapshoot in terms of actual artistic value—there even exists a strong inverse tendency where works that try to be different end up underappreciated and those appealing to the lowest common denominator end up with a bloated rating. It's only outside those values that things strongly converge in their respective direction.
Boku dake ga Inai Machi (8.79 on MAL): The first three or so episodes were certainly worth as much as a high 9, but around the midpoint it rather quickly devolved into something incredibly disjointed, unrealistic, and all-around profoundly disappointing when it became obvious that the author hadn't actually planned everything in advance (which in a work this short is just amazingly poor form). I've even checked out the manga to see if the source material got it right, but somehow it was much worse in this respect (hats off to the anime director for their attempts to mend the source's wrongs—they have succeeded to a respectable extent in weeding out most of the author's stupidity); it almost seems like the author had a really good idea but was too much of an amateur to make something high quality out of it. I ended up giving it a 8 because of how good the first few episodes were and because of the clear efforts the studio pulled to do well with what they were given and generally be clever, like the changed opening sequence in ep. 10 and the switch to cinematic 2.35:1 aspect ratio for the 1986 scenes. Realistically the show completely failed the supernatural aspect, screwed up the mystery, and came up with a really predictable and lackluster way to tie up the ends to the main story arc. I could elaborate upon what I thought was handled poorly, but I wouldn't be able to avoid major spoilers, so it should probably be done elsewhere if at all.
Hai to Gensou no Grimgar (7.94 on MAL): 100% forgettable. I don't remember anything out of it that was good aside from the truly gorgeous backdrops which cannot possibly substitute the lack of everything else. 12 episodes is more than enough time to flesh out 7 characters, and all we got was a half-assed character arc for maybe three of them that weren't even likable. Get this: about 15% of the show's runtime was devoted to mourning, flashbacks, and discussion of a dead cardboard character who wasn't developed even remotely well enough for a viewer to care about him at all. Similar thing with the plot: 12 episodes is plenty of time to show a compelling story, yet we've got none at all—just expository infodumps by the main character's internal monologue. I don't even know why they bothered with the MMO fantasy game references; it only made the characters and their motivations more insufferable and made watching the show as much of a mindnumbing grind as they were going through "in-game". Made me sad that such drivel is being animated yet there have been no plans announced for adapting real gems such as DungeonMeshi. (I wish Ryoko Kui received more attention in general, she has shown really good taste and wit in all of her works to date.)
Something-monogatari: How many seasons does this series even have, like seven or eight? Considering there have only ever been four series spanning over 70 episodes that I have watched (and only three of those I would recommend without any reservations), this is a super hard sell for me.
One Punch Man (8.92 on MAL): This is a tricky case. If you compare it to the manga and the original webcomic (which is incredible, btw), the TV show has erratic pace all around, it has screwed up a lot of comedic timing of the manga, added some scenes that don't even make sense to begin with, and devoted a LOT of time to the actual fights in a story whose premise intentionally mocked the fighting shounen genre by introducing an absolutely overpowered and indestructible protagonist from the very beginning. And this is considering the animated chapters contain no major plot development to speak of. But with all that the show still managed to execute said fights a lot better than any actual fight-centered anime I've ever seen (the Boros fight is just unbelievably well done; spoiler: protagonist wins) and ended up the best show of its season somehow, at least out of those that I watched at the time. Maybe those fights were the main reason people liked it this much, as there was little to show otherwise—for the record, all of these fights take 1–2 pages or less in the original webcomic. But considering the next major manga/webcomic arc is a LOT better—you can basically say the animated chapters were just a big introduction to the world and the characters of OPM—I have very high hopes for season 2. The overarching plot really picks up and there will be plenty of opportunities for the studio to showcase their fight animation capabilities; too bad we'll have to wait for another year at the least. Good news is that another adaptation of OPM author's work, Mob Psycho 100, is being premiered this year.
Noragami Aragoto (8.53 on MAL): Slightly better than the first season (hardly a feat) but still quite mediocre. Unrelatable cardboard characters, stunningly boring action sequences (except maybe one fight in the whole season that doesn't end in one strike), questionable character motivation, way too many loose ends. I may watch the next season if I have time, but they better wrap everything up with it.
Ajin: I saw the vomit-inducing CGI and never gave it a second thought. Is there a manga or anything else that won't make my eyes bleed? :p
Little Witch Academia is neither a series nor a full-length feature film, so probably doesn't belong in that list. But other than that, yeah, it's really good.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Oh hey, topic reply email notification to the rescue! :p
This season is pretty decent, all in all. Far better than the two previous ones, anyway.
Much thanks for pointing my attention towards Joker Game, I'll definitely pick it up. On that note, would you consider Boku no Hero Academia to be good for somebody who's grown pretty tired of typical shounen stuff? Its premise seemed pretty banal to me, and I took the high rating as more indicative of a lowest common denominator sensibilities rather than good writing. Is it at all clever about what it does?
As for my own experiences...
Between the two Trigger shows aired simultaneously this season, Space Patrol Luluco is probably the better one. It follows the short form explored earlier with Inferno Cop and Ninja Slayer but plays its comedy straighter most of the time and focuses more on its characters. Also, it has the most stylish ending I've seen in a very long while, as well as surprisingly good bits of dialogue, very appropriate rapid-fire pacing, and, last but not least, Mayumi Shintani among the main cast.
Kabaneri looks like a well-executed mishmash of Attack on Titan and Showpiercer (doesn't help that it's done by the same studio that animated AoT). Hopefully it'll show some fresh ideas down the line, because so far there's been hardly any. Well, at least it's been doing well what it has set out to do... so far. Something AngerFist might enjoy, too. Probably. :p
Re:Zero is very fun indeed—a shounen done right in many respects. I've checked out the manga, and, to my satisfaction, the anime handles the scenes a lot better at literally every point. That's the main sign of a competent director/screenwriter combo at the helm.
Not sure what to make of Bungo Stray Dogs yet, but it looks nice so far, the characters are mildly promising in their quirkiness and being based on real-life prototypes (a dangerous card to play!). It looks like a faster pacing would have benefitted it, but I've only seen two episodes so far, so I should probably hold off on that opinion.
Kuma Miko is... alright, I guess? I've seen two episodes so far; it's quite cozy, and the premise is certainly good, but it takes quite some time to set up the actual, well, comedy. In this respect I probably laughed more at the first episode of Re:Zero. Still, definitely comfortable enough to go through the full cour.
Netoge treads a very thin line between instances of decent subculture humor and near-incorrigible amounts of third-rate anime cliche. I almost dropped it the first episode due to all the trite writing, but, being well-acquainted with the MMO subculture it portrays, had enough hearty laughs by the end to give the show a chance... that it will likely fail, but I like to believe in miracles.
Kiznaiver I don't have high expectations for. Apparently its screenwriter is known for delivering a subpar product. I guess I've done remarkably well unknowingly avoiding her earlier works.
Mayoiga has been tripping a lot of suck flags from the get-go, so I'll most likely drop it unless the next episode works a miracle. Apparently Mari Okada whom I was talking about in the previous paragraph had something to do with this show as well.
Sakamoto I probably won't watch at all, but will read the manga instead. People say it gets the comedic timing a lot better. And it allegedly contains a reference to my favorite One-Punch Man chapter, which is a good thing. :p
The new Jojo... I'll probably marathon it sometime later in continuity with the other related titles I haven't watched yet. Crazy high rating tho!
Also, to those who haven't been following the previous season too closely: do yourself a favor and watch Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu, its by far the least disappointing (and actually very well done) show. Warning: it's a slow-paced, highly thematically-focused period drama about adults, for adults—no surprise it didn't manage to grasp even 1/3 of the audience of the more hyped titles of the season. Features outstanding voice acting and decidedly subdued animation that belies great efforts to focus on capturing subtle details with pinpoint accuracy.
And lastly, to the 1.5 people whom it may concern, Heta is finally back at subbing Gag Manga Biyori+, aka the fourth (and the best, so far) season of Gag Manga Biyori—a gag comedy show from 2000s for, erm... a special brand of comedy connoisseurs. Those unfamiliar with it should try locating the first episode of GMB+ to see what its humor all about.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
That's a proof of a different thing. Mothrayas could have said that from either standpoint; he was talking about the consistency of ruling rather than in favor of a specific preference.
If you accept the guideline as treating the games on a case-by-case basis, the confusion is largely alleviated and contained to particular wording on past decisions which cannot be easily tampered with.
The problem as I see it right now isn't in choosing or judging a particular difficulty, but rather in the consistency of said difficulty choice in the obsoletion chain.
Suppose a first-gen run of game A is submitted on Hard. Then run A2 is submitted on Easy because that allowed extra tricks, but since it was also faster in comparable segments it has to be accepted as well as an improvement. Then run A3 is submitted by another player, this time on Hard again, because it apparently looks more impressive that way, and as the author has managed to beat run A2's time despite being deprived of extra timesaving tricks of the Easy difficulty, it is judged as superior and accepted as an improvement yet again. The next author could once again claim that entertainment is in the eye of the beholder and use all the tricks available by the easier difficulty in A4 to surpass the harder run, which will likely be accepted. At some point run A5 won't be able to surpass run A4's time on Hard and will have to resort to continuing the chain on Easy.
Is there a sensible way to deal with this that is clear to understand and adhere to and not being a powerful drama magnet? That is the kind of problem we should be discussing instead of being stuck on reiterating the obvious.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Nobody wants to watch a TAS on easy difficulty in a game that people run on hard so that it’s possible to lose a WR run to a boss. And your argument literally makes 0 sense: you’re literally saying “oh it uses savestates so it’s not impressive”. Welcome to TASVideos??? Good argument, man.
The argument, so to say, is that watching a video on this site we know well beforehand that the chance of a boss to hit the player equals to 0% unless it's faster to take that hit. Therefore the main difference, and the entertainment value, lies in the particular methods of avoiding said hits while maintaining maximum damage output of the player character (assuming they can't all be tanked using the available resources). Nobody is surprised that a deadly hit is avoided, but is seeing the same hit avoided the same way, say, 10 times in a row instead of 4 really more impressive to you? Why?
ALAKTORN wrote:
It’s not about the TAS. It’s about how it compares to RTA runs of the same game.
Although I do agree that this should be taken into consideration for games with established speedrunning communities, I feel that fitting the rule sets against RTA runs in every single case, which seems to be what you're asking for, is unrealistic and wrong for the site, as the site should maintain its own goals first and foremost. But this isn't prohibited in any way, either, which is why we had (and still have) in-game time runs and whatnot for many popular games that were timed this way in respective RTA communities. If you want this to be forced, however, I would disagree with it because forcing external references is ridiculous. The ruleset should reflect what is most entertaining in a TAS, not what is most comparable to whatever else. If they coincide, good; if they don't, well, make a convincing case and hope for the better.
The guidelines as rewritten by Samsara reflect the direction the site has been taking, not trying to establish a new direction. I.e. they reflect what has already happened in the (recent) past, and it should be clear the direction has changed from a harder, broader approach towards more of a case-by-case basis. So if you would come up with some judging decisions you disagreed with, it would probably be more helpful for the discussion, assuming you would like to be helpful at all.
ALAKTORN wrote:
You clearly have a wrongly biased view on this. I’m just saying that it should be case-by-case, not “more HP? nope not allowed”. I 100% agree that in many games more HP is just a bad idea. Doesn’t mean it’s for all games.
Yeah, clearly, based on this post and the entire discussion before it. And it's not just you looking in the mirror. I mean I should probably quote this snippet again because you have clearly and unbiasedly ignored it again:
"...It is preferred to play on the difficulty that would make the most interesting and entertaining run. Usually, this is the hardest difficulty". And also, "any difficulty choice will be accepted as long as you adequately explain why you chose it"
It absolutely covers your case so I don't even understand what you're arguing for or against.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
