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Wow, great discovery. Its amazing how techniques like this can remain hidden.
Since your last submission of this game, I've become a fan of how detailed your work has been. Very sizable cut, and great job.
Yes vote.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
OmnipotentEntity wrote:
However, there is an unusall high interest with so many Yes votes.
There are 11 No votes and 0 Yes votes. What are you talking about?
I think I just had a dyslexia moment. Oops. Or either I can see as well I used too. LOL
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
dave_dfwm wrote:
Doesn't start from reset. Doesn't play full game. Uses hacked game. I'm pretty sure all of those things are generally against the stated rules of the site.
I'm not even sure if 100% coin could be a good goal in a regular playthrough since coins reappear in each level reentry.
Interesting, I'm glad to see others agree with what I'm about to say. As others are stating, this movie doesn't complete the game...which is a requirement of TASVideos.org rules.
Please see http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html (Sections under "Rules for movies")
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
sveniroth wrote:
To be honest, I just made these for fun, and to bring the game to people's attention. And because, to my knowledge, no one else has made a TAS for it. I learned a lot from making them, but I wasn't going for perfection. If they aren't good enough to be hosted here, so be it.
I wouldn't be hard on yourself. This is generally your first experience with the community.
I would like to point out that the community could find this game of high interest; however, the members will want to see things done as fast as possible.
Please take note of one thing though...there is a great satisfaction from digging deep into a game's mechanics. When you find hard earned frames...you will enjoy it a lot more. There is nothing more grand than putting a lot of effort into finding these small cuts being pointed out.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
sveniroth wrote:
- You can start the game faster than you did with your waiting (this has been mentioned already, it's worth re-mentioning however).
I understand that this is your first submission and there are things you wish to emphasize. Your favorite parts of the game can always be researched by viewers, if they want to know more.
This situation has shown up before where non-gaming parts have not been optimized. A TAS is a timed event from the moment the game is powered up for a console. The long menu waiting only subtracts from your timing. I must say that SpikeStuff's efforts to resync, after removing the long wait, indicates that RNG and other factors prevent you from turning around a revision quickly. If you think it is a timely possibility, I would set your submission to "Delayed" and try to correct this.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Menuing??? Do I see a problem already? Why is there so much time spent waiting to press "Start"?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
nymx wrote:
In terms of optimization, I don't see a glaring issue, except with the fight with Goro.
I'm kinda back off of this statement now. I've been in a lot of different RNG situations, where I thought nothing could be done. Well, to date...I haven't failed in trying to come up with something that helped change a situation for the better.
The Goro fight still remains the concern for this movie. Attacks are not made for seconds, which I am almost certain can be avoided. If things within the round are not changing the situation, then perhaps a delay of frames going into the round from the previous segment will cause things to shift. This is the same thing that occurs when a TASer when they go into Phantoon's room of Super Metroid. The Fast, Mid, Slow pattern of his first appearance is affect by doing so.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
I forgot one piece of information.
From my analysis (hopefully I tagged the WR correctly), this run is roughly 28 seconds faster than the RTA WR. This is one reason why I like to see TASes for games. If optimization is solid, it serves to show the limitations and shows how strong the existing RTA WR is.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Well, I'm a little late on this. Been super busy with work.
This game is certainly a favorite of mine when it came out during my college years. (+1 point)
According to the speed running community, the choice of character seems legitimate but doesn't always mean that others can't be used in a TAS more productively. For one, the time it takes for Kano to walk up to characters is a concern, but perhaps the fighting ability covers for the lack of movement. Since I'm not up on the details that the community recognizes...I figured Raiden would have been good enough to disappear and come in close contact quicker. Maybe Scorpion and his harpoon to pull the other fighter up closer; however, the time it takes to perform that could be just as much as the walk. Since I don't have a solid answer...I'll leave this to the judges. (0 points)
In terms of optimization, I don't see a glaring issue, except with the fight with Goro....not sure if the dancing around was RNG manipulation. Without digging into the inputs, it does seem to do the job. With the stated goal of the game, I don't see an issue with this being accept...if it does in fact have solid optimization. (+1 point)
Entertainment...I agree with EZ. Other MK TASes have more ability to do "Play Arounds", but I also like to see a game completed as fast as possible to determine human limitations. On this, I can't say that it is entertaining enough for me to decide my vote. (-1 point)
Well, the tally is 1+0+1-1 = 1...leaving me to vote yes overall.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Thank you feos.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Nobody with any experience using the ApiHawk binary? I'll settle for any documentation.
Just need to know some basics of this DLL. Mainly its environmental implementation and intrinsic items that may not be apparent.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Because I'm needing a lot more speed with my BOTing needs, I'm turning now towards using ApiHawk. The object model makes perfect sense; however, I need some information that is not given. I've searched for documentation, but not finding anything. If there is documentation on the basics of how to implement, I would appreciate any direction to that location.
If not, here are some items that I'm having trouble with:
I am assuming that I will control all the functions from within my own environment via calls to this DLL (or in this case a .NET binary), which references the BizHawk.Client.ApiHawk.dll. So basically, I programatically open the emulator, create my own savestates, apply inputs, etc..., via the methods provided.
One problem I am having is that the "Static" methods are not allowing for me to make direct calls to the library. At one point, I got the methods to expose themselves in my code, but when I went to compile for a test I get errors about them being statically called only. Of course, with static designed methods...I can't instantiate them.
It probably comes down to needing help with understanding environment this was designed for, since I see some functions without their counterpart. For examples. CloseEmulatr() exists, but not OpenEmulator().
If someone can point me in the right direction, hopefully i can start learning this environment and be independent.
Thanks.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Great job Alyosha!
I knew you stated that you were working on this, but didn't realize it was coming out so soon. This is a favorite series of mine and I'm glad to see how optimized it is.
Yes vote on further optimization.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
I'm a little baffled.
You have places where no ghosts exists (at the beginning of levels, especially the 1st blue level), yet you are not perfectly synced up on both players as you work your way up towards the top. This is a DEAD give-away that it is not optimized.
I'm sorry...no vote.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Ok...so an encode finally showed up for this run. Now I can vote.
Before I saw Spikestuff's effort, I noticed some routing issues...not to mention that eating ghosts are not a time saver.
Now, I scrolled down and saw what Spikestuff did. This only confirms that I see it as un-optimized.
As for entertainment...I started off with Meh at the beginning, but it started growing slowly. Since I played this game a TON in the arcade, I see a small enough of entertainment to vote yes now.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Spikestuff wrote:
So why did you choose to not use coop?
Same here, I like the 2 player version much better; however, I don't think that should negate having two categories for this game. Perhaps two categories could be submitted, since I am interested in seeing the potential times for both?
abstaining from voting for the moment.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
This reminds me of some games on the Commodore Vic-20. Nice memory and nice improvement.
Yes vote.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
The visual on this makes it look like the game is super easy; however, that is far from the truth. Its too bad the game lacks the ability to demonstrate that. The work done on this is amazing!
Yes vote for the continued improvements!
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
I find it amazing how this game is still being pursued for cuts. When I have reviewed puzzles solves over and over, I get to where I can't see any improvements. Yet! I come back another day and something new shows up that I wouldn't have considered. This has been the case with a few TASes that I'm currently working on.
Great job finding that cut Alyosha.
Yes vote.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Never mind, I'm dumb. I just noticed that it doesn't require a parameter to denote it.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
It appears the current "Command Line" documentation is lacking some of the functionality that exists. I downloaded the latest solution of Bizhawk and I found:
_argParser
The problem is, I am not able to update my existing Visual Studio to accommodate for looking at the definition of the properties of that item...with fear that I could hurt my existing environments.
Can someone tell me the availability of the commandline parameter for _argParser.cmdRom ? I've tried --rom, but nothing is happening.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Wow. I'm impressed. Very amazing TAS with amazing commentary.
Great job. Yes vote.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
TheWinslinator wrote:
The methodology was simple: look at the coordinates of the rooms that the enemies are in when the mountain is entered. If they're good, continue testing. If not, move on to the next situation.
The reason the rerecord count is so low is because I started this project 3 years ago when the Intellivision core was still under development. When I was about ready to submit for the first time, I realized the movie didn't work on the newest version of BizHawk (due to new intellivision features) so I redid the entire movie and it reset the rerecord count. The original rerecord count is forever lost but I estimate it would've been somewhere around 5000. The extra 193 rerecords are simply from testing the new strategy.
By the way, just found another 2-frame improvement, so I will be cancelling this submission.
Ok...sounds good. :)
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
I've always been interested in Intellivision, but never really got to play one.
This looks to be a good game for the time, although it doesn't grab me for entertainment, the fact that you found a way to cut 3 frames for a game that is done crazily short is impressive.
Winslinator wrote:
Winslinator uses a major skip, two controllers, and substantial luck manipulation to tear through the game's content, only visiting two mountains in the process.
Curious, for such stated luck manipulation...I would have figured the re-record count would have been higher. For my first submission, I had submitted a raw text file which showed "0" rerecords and the true count was never realized. For this, you have some really interesting findings that helped you to cut frames, but how much time did it really take? I can't imagine that you made these discoveries among 194 tries. Would you care to elaborate a bit further on how you approached your experimentation?
Also, I found the technique of using the 2nd controller interesting. I have also done this for one Commodore 64 TAS. Systems, as awesome as they were back then, were not programmed with extensive routines to prevent controller input from making any changes to what a "First" player would experience. I remember playing around with "Player 1" and seeing rare but random characters type up...which is one reason why I believe c64 programmers used Player 2 mostly for single player games.
Btw, Yes vote.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
LOL
The Train Autoscroller...that got me! I busted out laughing when you synced up the jumping to the music.
And as always (well, 99% of the time I suppose), I dish out Yes votes for improvements to previous submissions.
GG EZ!
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
