This Movie's Traits

  • Recorded in FCEUX 2.1.4a
  • Controls 2 players
  • Uses deaths to save time
  • Abuses programming errors
  • Manipulates luck
  • Contains speed/entertainment tradeoffs

The Used Characters

I used one Toad & one Dragon, for this is a crossover game and the run must represent it. Pimple and Billy have the longest jumps, though they are initializing slower, than jumps of the rest characters. This choice allows me to cross long pits in the third level. And each member of the Toad+Dragon team can save time differently in different places.

Tricks and Glitches

Common tricks of the NES Battletoads engine are:
  • Hyper jump: run and jump at once. Allows to charge in midair.
  • Initiaizing the fatal attack on one object & releasing it onto another.
  • Left+Right glitch, with different results, like diagonal & vertical running.
  • Killing bosses with all the same lower attack.
  • Jumping above the screen when sitting on the jet.
Exclusive tricks of this run:
  • Hitting emenies through the walls.
  • Catching the dynamite through the wall.
  • Running through the grid borders, crawling on the wall in Level 2-2.
  • Flying jet in Level 2-3.
  • Air jumping & air running with the help of Left+Right glitch in Level 5.
  • Hitting the item capsule & the enemy at once minimizing the lag.
  • Acting with empty HP bar in Level 5.
Hint
After the dragon comes out of the 3rd door of this level, he has NO lives & NO HP. Once the Toad hits the enemy, the Dragon gets 1 HP block back for unknown reason.

Lag

This game uses Raw PCM samples for voicing attacks, which causes tons of lag while they are playing. This means that for the fastest completion you need to use as little laggy attacks as possible.
A 2 player run causes lag in some scenes, where much less lag appears for 1 player. Especially in Level 3.
The space level has some strange delay of the discharged shots. You may shot a burst of 9 bullets (each part of the Rat Ship requires 9) and only 5 or 6 of them would reach the target instantly. The rest will appear from nowere ~10 frames later & fly towards the target. They will appear from any place you were at while shoting them. If you shot 9 bullets & fly off, you will see how they appear from the void.
I managed to minimize these delays only at the end of the Rat Ship battle by dying.

RNG and enemies' AI

I didn't use scripts or disassemble the code, as all of the luck management can be made with the "trial and error" method. But this game still has lots of things that shall be manipulated.
Which frame enemy appears at, which character it chases, how does it react on your attacks. Which type of attack your character uses on the Boss.
There were also some actions that caused the desired circumstances by accident. For example, the appearance of the third life from the Rat Ship occured after taking damage, as well as re-aiming of my missle on the enemy instead of this life object.
Even the beat-'em-up Level 5 required manipulating the chasing of rats. If they chase the wrong character, they fall down the screen & can't be beaten.

Bosses

This game has 2 types of bosses.
The first one has normal HP, just like all the rest enemies have, and its suffering status allows you to initialize the final blow, killing the boss instantly.
The other type has only the hit count, required to kill him. These bosses don't care about the type of punch they get, the counter just decreases by one each time.
But here another problem raises - the fastest hit animation. It is lower fist (or elbow) attack, which doesn't fling the suffering boss around the screen. Here you need some input manipulation. Will describe it on the future Source Page for Bt&DD.

Abobo

The second simpliest boss. If you hit the correct place & timing, you can kick him through the wall at the first frame of his existance. As he gets this hit, he starts his life from suffering status & animation. This can initialize the fatal attack on him. But after he is dead, he requires one more hit to be blown away. It is automatically animated as a final attack.

Big Blag

The easiest boss. One player hits him & the other initializes his final blow from the suffering boss.

Roper

Rather crazy boss. It has 2 possible actions: hitting you with his machine-gun or jumping before firing (accompanied by siren). The second one is optimal & shall be manipulated.
Gets 2 hits before he actually starts his life.

Ratship

Each part of it requires 9 shots, but if you have 2 players, there's a delay. It can take hits after it finishes shaking.

Robo-Manus

Can't be manipulated to act anyhow. He seems to have the separate timer for his attacks. Though they are all identical.
Gets a hit before he appears from the wall.

Shadow Boss

Has 3 possible actions: doing nothing, hitting the second (only) player and disappearing. All the manipulation is done by the second player, as he doesn't see the first player's object. After each 10 hits he turns into a tenon-thrasing form. Requires 32 hits in total.
I used 2 player to manipulate Shadow Boss so that he will be easy to hit by the toad & won't disappear. If he is on one vertical level with the dragon (and is close enough horizontally) - he instantly starts punching him

Dark Queen

After she gets some number of fast hits, starts diving into the floor. This can be stopped by one more hit each time. I kept the Dragon for these additional hits.

The Life & Death Matter

The first life I sacrificed is Billy's one in Level 2-3. Just for fun.
A bunch of lives is given up in Level 3-2 to cross the great gap by kicking the partner before death, 2 deaths were taken by Billy to kick Pimple up onto the platform, and one - to minimize the collision detection on electric walls part.
In Level 4-1 all deaths are for fun, and in 4-2 they allowed to prevent shotting delay.
The first death in Level 5 is to minimize lag, occuring when 2 dynamiters die at once. And the second death (right after hitting Robo-Manus) is because Pimple had no time to jump high enough to prevent dying from falling down during the shock animation.
The last 2 lifes lost on level 7 were for fun.

Entertainment

I was trying to keep this level high enough. Even though it means that some laggy actions shall be made. Anyway, the only tradeoff is allowing some lag for entertaining actions. There're no unnecessary stops.

Special Thanks go to

  • AnS for following all my WIPs & keeping my entertainment value high, giving advices from the normal viewer's point.
  • Aglar for checking my WIPs for the purpose of speed.
  • Ash Williams for some useful minor tricks.
  • Adelikat & Zeromus for this awesome tool TAS Edit, where the entire run was made.

Suggested Screenshot

I'm open for any better suggestions.

TAS Edit gives 0 rerecord, so I've written there the number I like.

DarkKobold: The rerecord count should be set to zero, so it doesn't mess with statistics. Otherwise, claiming.

DarkKobold: Accepting, as this run was amazingly entertaining and fun. The majority also agree that the final ten seconds should be left in, so the run will be accepted as is.
Now, this run will obsolete the SNES run, for two reasons:
  1. There isn't much difference between the NES and SNES version. While the SNES has much better graphics, it lacks the glitches that make this run more entertaining. I doubt that there is reason to have runs of both NES and SNES on this site, and thus, the NES wins.
  2. It is evident in the previous SNES run that it is one player playing two characters - the characters either move in an identical fashion, or mirror image, during the majority of the run. It lacks any of the play that this had, and uses the same moveset for the entirety of the run. The play-around in this new movie is much better, all around.

Brandon: Publication underway.

TASVideoAgent
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GabCM
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Encodes are coming soon. ---- SD Stream (RadioKJ) SD Download (50.1 MB) - Alternate link
Post subject: Silly Question
NitroGenesis
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Editor, Experienced player (551)
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Mister Epic wrote:
Encodes are coming soon.
From you or feos?
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
Post subject: Re: Silly Question
Site Admin, Skilled player (1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11268
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NitroGenesis wrote:
Mister Epic wrote:
Encodes are coming soon.
From you or feos?
I will make HD encode for YouTube. Mister Epic - SD.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
AnS
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Joined: 2/23/2006
Posts: 682
This run is improvable by 10 seconds. I'm voting No.
NitroGenesis
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Editor, Experienced player (551)
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AnS wrote:
This run is improvable by 10 seconds. I'm voting No.
How? elaborate please.
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
Joined: 5/9/2005
Posts: 748
AnS wrote:
This run is improvable by 10 seconds. I'm voting No.
Great Post!
Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 150
It's such a shame stage 2-3 is so full of wtf, because the rest of this looks really good so far as I've seen. edit: Okay, it also looks like the fight with Shadow Boss could have been optimized more greatly as well, and the sacrifice did not bestow much entertainment value, I think. I hate to give this a No, so this is a Meh for me. A meh!
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I forgot to add, that fighting a boss with just a Toad is faster than with both characters, because the Dragon's lower attack has longer animation & his hit gives more lag. And that the stage 2-3 has a fixed length, so it doesn't matter, if I kill any enemies, or not. Flying above the screen all the stage will cause no lag, but I decided to fly around a bit. Also, if you touch the floor, your jet will stop flying. EDIT: Some further explanations. If the character runs in one direction, then charges to another, he can't instanly run to the latter direction after the charge animation, so sometimes there are perionds of mere standing. I was pressing forward every other frame to force them to run all these times. The enemy needs to be knocked out of the screen so that he does not fade out on screen. It clears the memory for the next enemy or for resuming scrolling. So, I had to make finishing attack by the Toad many times. Please ask what you want as I fail to remember all the aspects. AnS: I refused stopping the movie at the last attack of the boss, to show the final battle between characters. It lasted through all the stages.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Former player
Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 502
Location: Onett, Eagleland
Thoroughly enjoyed this run! I liked the playfulness between 1P and 2P.
I think.....therefore I am not Barry Burton
Post subject: Re: even more edit
AnS
Emulator Coder, Experienced player (723)
Joined: 2/23/2006
Posts: 682
feos wrote:
I refused stopping the movie at the last attack of the boss, to show the final battle between characters. It lasted through all the stages.
Yes, we were discussing this arbitrary decision of yours. And I do think you're wrong when submittiong "17:41 run" instead of 17:31 one. This made-up final battle doesn't add anything to the movie. In previous stages you had to wait after boss, but after beating final boss you can stop the movie, because ending doesn't require any additional input. Your movie should begin from the console power-on and end when the last decisive action has been delivered. Edit: So someone indeed voted No (instead of me), lol. I myself didn't vote yet, because the movie actually rocks, and I'm trying to prevent author from making mistake.
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AnS: As it is not the gameplay improvement, but just cutting the movie file, which still contains this ending as a tradeoff, I think I will post here the trimmed movie & let the viewers compare. And to say what they like more. EDIT: http://rghost.net/6450241 This is how it looks. Can't see how it is better. EDIT 2: As DarkKobold & me discussed in IRC, this game requires one more Start press to skip the last dialog cutscene, though it is saying "GAME COMPLETED", it may & must be skipped. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1772180411/feos-battletoadsdoubledragon-2p-cutsceneskipped-0rerecord.fm2.gz EDIT 4 (& the last, I hope)
DarkKobold	feos: uh, I misunderstood you
DarkKobold	I thought you could skip TO the cutscene between the chicken and the queen
DarkKobold	not that you could skip THE cutscene.
DarkKobold	I'd say, with that, leave the movie as is.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Skilled player (1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
That movie was freaking amazing. Best TAS I have seen in a while. Also, the stylistic choice of using ten seconds of down time to have fun at the end of the movie, instead of leaving the players standing there, was a good one in my opinion.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
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Joined: 12/30/2007
Posts: 485
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Amazing. I like the universe stage,the boss battle,death management,and entertaining show. I like this very much.Yes for you feos.
Do the work.
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Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
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You finshed it faster than I thought - framewise and datewise:) 50 seconds faster than my 1-player testrun sure is a valid difference, especially considering all the extra lag and playaround. It's been nice seeing you developing as a TASer during the process and the quality of the end product is of a very high degree. Congratulations! I suppose the extra input at the end was inspired by the similar sequence in FODA's 2-player Battletoads run from 6 years ago, a time when people weren't frame-picky enough to complain about such a thing:)
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
AnS
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Joined: 2/23/2006
Posts: 682
feos wrote:
As DarkKobold & me discussed in IRC, this game requires one more Start press to skip the last dialog cutscene, though it is saying "GAME COMPLETED", is may & must be skipped.
The game doesn't require Start press, this last dialog will disappear after waiting a couple of seconds. In fact, this dialog is first part of ending. Why must it be skipped? Man, yesterday I was so going to write detailed post about how great you worked on this game during last halfyear. But at the end of the day you rushed to beat levels 6-7 (which are now the least entertaining part of the movie) and submit the file right away, without usual discussion/reworkings. Bah. Sure I'm not gonna vote No for the movie I anticipated so much, but that's where we part ways.
DarkKobold wrote:
Also, the stylistic choice of using ten seconds of down time to have fun at the end of the movie
Since when it's called downtime? It's the end. There won't be any uptime after that.
Aglar wrote:
I suppose the extra input at the end was inspired by the similar sequence in FODA's 2-player Battletoads run from 6 years ago, a time when people weren't frame-picky enough to complain about such a thing:)
BTW, if this submission is approved as a precedent, does it mean that all Battletoads runs must end at the fadeout screen instead of last hit?
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AnS: I aint saying NO to trimming this movie. I only want people to say, if it is worth doing. Also, see my 4th edit above.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Skilled player (1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
AnS wrote:
BTW, if this submission is approved as a precedent, does it mean that all Battletoads runs must end at the fadeout screen instead of last hit?
You are missing the entire point of my statement. While the movie file could end ten seconds earlier, the actual end of the game would not come any sooner. Therefore, as opposed to the audience staring at a still screen, feos used that time to entertain. This isn't even a speed vs. entertainment trade-off, as the end will still happen at the exact same time. This is hardly a precedent setting action. Future versions of this game will be compared to when the final screen comes up, and it is left to the author to determine if they want to use the last ten seconds for fun. Once again, this isn't a records site.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
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AnS wrote:
feos wrote:
As DarkKobold & me discussed in IRC, this game requires one more Start press to skip the last dialog cutscene, though it is saying "GAME COMPLETED", is may & must be skipped.
The game doesn't require Start press, this last dialog will disappear after waiting a couple of seconds. In fact, this dialog is first part of ending. Why must it be skipped? Man, yesterday I was so going to write detailed post about how great you worked on this game during last halfyear. But at the end of the day you rushed to beat levels 6-7 (which are now the least entertaining part of the movie) and submit the file right away, without usual discussion/reworkings. Bah. Sure I'm not gonna vote No for the movie I anticipated so much, but that's where we part ways.
DarkKobold wrote:
Also, the stylistic choice of using ten seconds of down time to have fun at the end of the movie
Since when it's called downtime? It's the end. There won't be any uptime after that.
Aglar wrote:
I suppose the extra input at the end was inspired by the similar sequence in FODA's 2-player Battletoads run from 6 years ago, a time when people weren't frame-picky enough to complain about such a thing:)
BTW, if this submission is approved as a precedent, does it mean that all Battletoads runs must end at the fadeout screen instead of last hit?
You raise some valid points, but this movie doesn't have to be held to the same pixel percet perfection that we hold Mario runs to. This movie will be primarily for the enjoyment of the TAS community, and we should judge it as such. Even if this wasn't the fastest run around, these criticisms are best leveled towards oneself. If you think it can be improved, do it. If you can't, then it simply doesn't matter. Constructive criticism is great, but you're coming off as snarky. A definite yes vote from me. Great video, great timing, great everything. Congrats feos.
Brandon
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I will be uploading feos' HD. Also, MisterEpic, did you have your eye on this for publication? As you did some encoding, you can take it if you'd like, but otherwise, I'd like to. I haven't finished watching the run, but it seems to be good so far. I recommend feos try doing this on SNES so we can have a fast-paced no-tradeoff run and an entertaining slow paced one. There's no doubt you can beat White Gastra's record.
All the best, Brandon Evans
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I'm with AnS on this one. If the game is over, why keep playing just because the game accepts input? If the audience needs 10 more seconds of "entertainment" to enjoy the video, then they apparently didn't enjoy the last 17 and half minutes.
Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 150
The Battletoads run already has some messing around (though admittedly not at the expense of speed). The Double Dragon II run has a history of being halfway to a "playaround" type run. I think it's only fitting to have a little extra infighting at the end of the crossover title. Besides, if you object to those last ten seconds, then there's always alt-f4 when watching. Also, thanks for explaining the weird bits, feos. With this info in hand consider my Meh to be reversed to a Yes.
Joined: 5/1/2007
Posts: 294
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diggidoyo wrote:
I'm with AnS on this one. If the game is over, why keep playing just because the game accepts input? If the audience needs 10 more seconds of "entertainment" to enjoy the video, then they apparently didn't enjoy the last 17 and half minutes.
Say that to Battlemaniacs. But even with that in mind, I'd agree, though I haven't watched this submission yet.
I like Doraemon
Brandon
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OK, so I just finished watching this. How is this 10 second thing even an issue when FODA's Battletoads 2p warpless does the same exact thing and benefits from it? Sure, don't keep recording if your input doesn't change the output, but why stand around and do nothing when you could be entertaining the audience? If you really feel this way, try to obsolete the previously mentioned FODA run without all the fun antics at the end. Let's see how fast the judges render a "rejected" decision on that. That said, there might be some actual tradeoffs here. For example, in the second to last boss battle, why did you throw the toad when he could have been used to kill the boss faster? That might have been able to save some actual time. I'm sure there are other examples like this. Could you explain this? Still, I believe that the only reasons to reject a run is if the goal is bad, the run doesn't improve on a previous run, or it could be done by a human player. This run has none of these issues, which is enough for me, completely ignoring the fact that this is an incredibly well executed and entertaining run. You have created a testament to how many glitches were removed in the SNES version of this game. You broke this thing. All the while, you tried to entertain the audience and succeeded. Yes. P.S. I wish I took up your offer to potentially co-author this thing, but I probably would have gotten in your way. :\
All the best, Brandon Evans
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DarkKobold wrote:
While the movie file could end ten seconds earlier, the actual end of the game would not come any sooner. Therefore, as opposed to the audience staring at a still screen, feos used that time to entertain. This isn't even a speed vs. entertainment trade-off, as the end will still happen at the exact same time. This is hardly a precedent setting action. Future versions of this game will be compared to when the final screen comes up, and it is left to the author to determine if they want to use the last ten seconds for fun. Once again, this isn't a records site.
I agree with this. The main goal of the site is to provide movies that are entertaining, and watching the characters just stand there for several seconds would not have been as entertaining as what feos did in the movie. Also, watching the two players push/kick each other around was pretty funny. Reminds me of the fighting between the two players in the Kirby Super Star TAS.