I've played FF4 start to finish at least a dozen times since '92...I love all the characters, especially Cecil! Alas, I don't consider myself a good speed-runner because I have too much of an "explore every nook and cranny" instinct and I wouldn't want to do the massive number of re-recordings involved.
So if there is work on FF6 and SMRPG, why not FF4 speed-running? GameFaqs says a sub-8 hour run is attainable, and I imagine a LOT of time could be saved with shortcuts and luck abuse.
Some early thoughts:
*I'd definitely use the Sealed Cave glitch (warping to get the Dark Crystal in the Dwarf Castle.) Besides the obvious time saved in caves, it saves you from a LOT of leveling up.
*Number of enemies, damage, items won, etc. are all manipulable with luck abuse.
*Running and fighting just the right battles saves a lot of time, of course...
*I've played both easytype and hardtype versions, and not only do I think the so-called hardtype is actually easier in some ways, but it's also probably slightly easier to speed-run in because of some of the rare items.
*LOTS of randomness abuse can be used to get lots of stats gains from level ups. Also, there are lots of algorithms to optimize the stats characters come back with (i.e. Rosa and Kain in the towers and the giant.)
*Maximize battle and message speed at the start (duh.)
*Ignore Palom, Porom, Spoony Edward/Gilbert, etc. They're mostly worthless, so don't waste time and money healing them and equipping the best stuff on them...
"If all you did this year was sit in your cubicle and masturbate...say you're a self-starter who proactively reengineered your personal inventory with Total Quality, conforming to all EEO/OSHA/ISO9000 requirements."-Scott Adams
This would be a nice run as well. How ever. I didn't think about this before. But a movie file that is 8 hour long would need more movie segments. Not sure if it's possible to choose a frame to start? I haven't looked at it at all. But indeed. A nice run it would make.
So if there is work on FF6 and SMRPG, why not FF4 speed-running? GameFaqs says a sub-8 hour run is attainable, and I imagine a LOT of time could be saved with shortcuts and luck abuse.
We were talking about this some time ago. FF6's storyline lends itself to a few shortcuts of significance.. for instance, the game can be beaten shortly after Kefka destroys the world, once you get the 2nd airship. There's no need to acquire the remainder of the party again, which saves a good amount of time. Furthermore, FF6 has some oddities by playing "the numbers"; you can make characters nearly impossible to hit by raising their stats appropriately.
FF4 is much more rigid in its storyline, and there is very little you can do other than go from point A to point B. The biggest time-saver is cutting out the Sealed Cave (as you mentioned), which is a nice boost, but isn't enough on its own. You can't get significantly powerful items early (most of them are in the Moon). You can't abuse stats and make yourself unhittable (although you can make yourself get maximum boosts whenever possible).
There aren't even very many other glitches I'm aware of. I suppose it could be plotted out to see what could be done, but I doubt there's a whole lot going for it, in terms of shortcuts.
It'd be a decent walkthrough video, but that's about all, I think.
This would be a nice run as well. How ever. I didn't think about this before. But a movie file that is 8 hour long would need more movie segments. Not sure if it's possible to choose a frame to start? I haven't looked at it at all. But indeed. A nice run it would make.
You can play a movie read-only and then load a savestate. The movie will play from this point.
the bahamut sidequest is long and hardif your level is low.
but the pink tuff drops a mega strong armor (1/64 chances)
The pinkpuff is giving a pink tail which can be exchanged for an Adamante armor at the same place where you can exchange the rat tail for Excalibur sword. In other words, it's a lost of time.
Btw using the duplication glitch can be very useful with the Excalibur sword. The problem, you must do a detour to the village of monsters but maybe it's good to obtain Leviathan and Asura.
I attempted a legitimate speed run of FF4 some time ago - got to the Tower of Zot in 1:30 before quitting due to lack of time.
The walkthrough on GameFAQs was a bit vague, and there's lots of ways to improve his 8 hour run, most notably cutting down on the amount that you need to level up. I've found that there's really only four locations that are absolutely necessary to level up in:
- Cave north of Kaipo, right after you get Rydia. Beat up on the monsters weak to Lit (use Tellah to wipe them out in one shot) until you get high enough level to get Lit-1. This should give Rydia more durability in the fights to come, as well as give her more MP to summon her Chocobo. You should be able to do this while walking normally before you get to the save point halfway through the cave.
- Fight a couple battles just after changing Cecil into a Paladin, since you can gain so many levels with him in such a short amount of time, that it's a pretty good idea you do so.
- Harvest summoned enemies off an Alert (a monster-in-a-box in several chests) in the Tower of Bab-il in the underworld. To do this, smack the Alert with a weak attack (preferably Rydia's or Rosa's), and the Alert will summon a monster. Kill the monster, and smack the Alert again. Rinse and repeat until you're high enough level to take on most of the rest of the game. You'll get EXP off each monster you kill, and it's much better than walking around fighting random battles.
- Harvest Attackers/Defenders while fighting the CPU boss in the Giant of Babil. This is by far the quickest way to level in the entire game. Attackers just fire off Maser (which eats off 1/8 of your max HP to all party members), and Defenders only heal the CPU. You'll want to buy lots of Life1s prior to coming here, though, since if both the Attacker and Defender are killed, it'll use Globe199 twice, which instantly kills two party members, before resummoning another Attacker and Defender. You should be able to level to 60 or so in 15 minutes to a half an hour, especially since we're tool assisting the battle, which should be high enough to beat the rest of the game.
I expected a run of five hours at the game, and if you tool assist the menus and the battles, and plan which chests to get carefully, you can probably smash that time fairly easily, maybe even go under four and a half hours.
I attempted a legitimate speed run of FF4 some time ago - got to the Tower of Zot in 1:30 before quitting due to lack of time.
The walkthrough on GameFAQs was a bit vague, and there's lots of ways to improve his 8 hour run, most notably cutting down on the amount that you need to level up. I've found that there's really only four locations that are absolutely necessary to level up in:
- Cave north of Kaipo, right after you get Rydia. Beat up on the monsters weak to Lit (use Tellah to wipe them out in one shot) until you get high enough level to get Lit-1. This should give Rydia more durability in the fights to come, as well as give her more MP to summon her Chocobo. You should be able to do this while walking normally before you get to the save point halfway through the cave.
....
I wouldn't even bother fighting a single random battle while Cecil is still a Dark Knight, since all the exp you get then is basically meaningless and Rydia isn't very helpful in her weak form (unless you're playing a single character game, which I'd consider my specialty as I've beaten a Solo Cecil game and almost finished Solo Rydia and Solo Edge games.)
Fight a couple battles just after changing Cecil into a Paladin, since you can gain so many levels with him in such a short amount of time, that it's a pretty good idea you do so.
Yeah, I always liked how he could gain 6-7 levels just by beating up on a Zombie pack in Mt. Ordeals. I'm not sure if I'd hold up on raising levels and winning even more exp after the first battle, though...the battles get pretty tough w/600 HP once you take the bypass to Baron Castle.
Harvest summoned enemies off an Alert (a monster-in-a-box in several chests) in the Tower of Bab-il in the underworld. To do this, smack the Alert with a weak attack (preferably Rydia's or Rosa's), and the Alert will summon a monster. Kill the monster, and smack the Alert again. Rinse and repeat until you're high enough level to take on most of the rest of the game. You'll get EXP off each monster you kill, and it's much better than walking around fighting random battles.
- Harvest Attackers/Defenders while fighting the CPU boss in the Giant of Babil. This is by far the quickest way to level in the entire game. Attackers just fire off Maser (which eats off 1/8 of your max HP to all party members), and Defenders only heal the CPU. You'll want to buy lots of Life1s prior to coming here, though, since if both the Attacker and Defender are killed, it'll use Globe199 twice, which instantly kills two party members, before resummoning another Attacker and Defender. You should be able to level to 60 or so in 15 minutes to a half an hour, especially since we're tool assisting the battle, which should be high enough to beat the rest of the game.
Not sure how efficient it would be in a speed run, but what I like to do when I have to level up a lot (i.e. to beat the sealed cave in my non-Rydia solo games) and don't want to walk around much is pretty similar, to go to a Summoner monster and have them repeatedly call a high-exp enemy, and keep beating that enemy up numerous times.
julianch wrote:
the bahamut sidequest is long and hardif your level is low.
but the pink tuff drops a mega strong armor (1/64 chances)
The pinkpuff is giving a pink tail which can be exchanged for an Adamante armor at the same place where you can exchange the rat tail for Excalibur sword. In other words, it's a lost of time.
Btw using the duplication glitch can be very useful with the Excalibur sword. The problem, you must do a detour to the village of monsters but maybe it's good to obtain Leviathan and Asura.
It is probably a waste of time in a speed run, since you have to completely retrace your steps out of the Lunar Subterrain and back, but this is one of the ways the hardtype version is easier than the easytype one: it has an "Alarm" rare item that calls the least common battle formation for the area you're in, which in that room would obviously be the five Pink Puffs, thereby making it easier to win the PinkTail.
I know about the duplication glitch, and it should probably be forbidden in a speedrun.
You can't get significantly powerful items early (most of them are in the Moon). You can't abuse stats and make yourself unhittable (although you can make yourself get maximum boosts whenever possible).
Actually, luck abuse and the right armor can make you come darn close...
"If all you did this year was sit in your cubicle and masturbate...say you're a self-starter who proactively reengineered your personal inventory with Total Quality, conforming to all EEO/OSHA/ISO9000 requirements."-Scott Adams
Highness: Unfortunately, I don't.. I had recorded a .zmv getting that far, but can't find out where it went for the life of me. If I still had it, I'd still be working on the speedrun XD
However, I do still have an in-progress FF5 legit speedrun still on my computer, but it's not nearly as far or impressive (got to Karnak in an hour).. it still needs lots of work, anyways.
DukeNukem: Getting Rydia a decent amount of MP prior to fighting Octomamm does save time.. the Chocobo summon is easily the strongest attack for a good long while, and getting more MP for her as well as picking up Cecil's Shadow Sword in the cave saves more time than you eat up trying to get it. It helps a bunch vs Antlion - it only counters physical attacks, and not only do you beat Antlion in a faster time by having more Chocobo summons, you also waste less time sitting back and watching Antlion counter Cecil's attacks.
Though, I did forget about the other Summoner-type enemies.. it might be even better to level up just enough to make it to the next summoner, then level up off it, and so on.
As for the Bahamut sidequest, I never thought too deeply about that.. I don't think it's worth it, as by level 60 you'll have the Flare spell, which is nearly as powerful, and the fact that you can't run from Behemoths (I don't remember if you can have Edge Smoke away from them, either) puts a dent in things as well.
As for pink puffs and the pink tail, forget it. It's much better to focus on offense in a speed run, and you really won't need the protection that armor gives very much, at least not nearly as much as the time you'll lose by fetching it.
Well.. The FF5 woulden't be much to me unless it was completed. I haven't played FF5 for more than maby 30min or so. Anyways.. That was off topic.
Right now I would just like FF4 and FF6 to complete. :D
I've beaten a Solo Cecil game and almost finished Solo Rydia and Solo Edge games.
How the hell? Game Genie codes, I'm guessing.
Nope, played legitimately.
I used all available characters during the parts where my solo character was unavailable. Even in the Cecil one you have to do this once when Spoony Gilbert fights a sahagin.
Solo Cecil or Edge are fairly hard...you need to be around level 80 to be fast and strong enough to beat the Sealed Cave enemies. Fortunately, it doesn't take nearly as long to level up, since the experience is concentrated 5x as much. Again, the Hardtype version is easier than easytype here because you can Berserk in potion form to massively increase your attack power, and use Light Capes to reflect "Dimension69."
Solo Rydia is actually VERY easy!! You have to bring her along very slowly to get through her first scene where she starts w/30 HP, but later in the game, once you get the Nuke spell, which always has extremely high attack power and is cast VERY fast, everything is easy if you're careful about conserving MPs. (I always used Tents at savespots as my primary means of restoring MP...I don't use Cabins because you have to kill off your non-solo characters again.) Even if you don't skip the sealed cave, it's a joke because Nuke casts faster than the doors and wall can keep up with.
GameFaqs has a solo guide focusing on Cecil, and says that all the other final 4 characters are doable except possibly Rosa. I've started on a solo Rosa game...
Phil, why? Being able to restock all the best items takes all the challenge out of the game, kind of like getting 256 Illuminas off the Relm Sketch Glitch in FF6. I didn't use the duplication glitch in my FF4 solo games, BTW.
"If all you did this year was sit in your cubicle and masturbate...say you're a self-starter who proactively reengineered your personal inventory with Total Quality, conforming to all EEO/OSHA/ISO9000 requirements."-Scott Adams
Phil, why? Being able to restock all the best items takes all the challenge out of the game, kind of like getting 256 Illuminas off the Relm Sketch Glitch in FF6. I didn't use the duplication glitch in my FF4 solo games, BTW.
Sketch Glitch is being exploited in a run of 6 as well.
We aren't making these videos to be challenged. We're making these videos to show the limits of the game, as it was programmed. Exploiting glitches is one way to show that the limits perceived are not always the limits coded.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Phil, why? Being able to restock all the best items takes all the challenge out of the game, kind of like getting 256 Illuminas off the Relm Sketch Glitch in FF6. I didn't use the duplication glitch in my FF4 solo games, BTW.
Sketch Glitch is being exploited in a run of 6 as well.
We aren't making these videos to be challenged. We're making these videos to show the limits of the game, as it was programmed. Exploiting glitches is one way to show that the limits perceived are not always the limits coded.
Yeah, I know...not sure if it's an extraordiary enough glitch to warrant separate versions (in the FF6 thread the sketch glitch is, so a non-glitched run is strongly considered and even preferred by some.)
"If all you did this year was sit in your cubicle and masturbate...say you're a self-starter who proactively reengineered your personal inventory with Total Quality, conforming to all EEO/OSHA/ISO9000 requirements."-Scott Adams
I've played this game alot, and one thing you could try that may work, is the place where you go to fight leviathan, you can get fight one of those summoners that summon the arachnid thingy. All it does is cast quake and if you have float, you can stay in one battle forever. Just killing that thing over and over again. Also I don't know if you can use game genie codes for this thing, but there is one that let's imps give you like 10000 exp. I used it one time and owned everything. It was fun.
Question: how do you manipulate luck? I tried this run a little while back, and I couldn't kill the three soldiers in the inn after running through about 100 frames (exactly how I tried I forgot, but I must have got something wrong).
I believe that there are 3 soldiers and a captain making it 4 enemies total (you're thinking of when Fabul is attacked which has the battle with 2 soldiers and a captain). Doesn't dark wave kill the 3 soldiers? If not then before you go anywhere in Kaipo village wait some frames or wait in the battle sequence until you get the desired results. Also what you press before and during the battle changes the outcome. But I really don't know the games' way of luck manipulation.
Joined: 7/8/2007
Posts: 27
Location: North Carolina, USA
Is there currently anyone working on a TAS of this game? It seems that this thread died a while ago, and the thread for the FFIV GBA version seems to be in a similar state. I would love to see a TAS of this game, and would be willing to try it myself, but only if there is some interest in the game.
