Post subject: Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance
Rolanmen1
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Since dolphin apparently is being good in terms of desynchs to me, i did this short test on Hard Mode. Manipulation seems to be the same as GBA, i was lucky to get a perfect level up on Ike and a critical on the Ch1 boss without much effort. My settings are: Dual Core and Idle Skipping Disabled and Audio HLE Emulation (never got dolphin run with the other Audio options). About Encoding, i just won't bother myself too much, cause encoding this stuff is really frustrating.
RachelB
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HLE can cause desyncs, don't use it. To use LLE audio, you need to dump some files from a wii (or GC). You can find instruction for that here. If you still need help with that, or otherwise can't do it, feel free to pm me and i can help.
RachelB
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What revision/settings was this recorded with? It just goes into the game, changes some options, and then spams/holds a/b for a while for me, with either 305 or 378 more-save-fixes.
Rolanmen1
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It says 3.0 415 (yes, i downloaded it from the dolphin main site)
RachelB
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Same thing is happening with 415. Btw, if you continue tasing with dolphin, you'll want to use the build posted here. All desync issues with gc controller recording seem to have been fixed recently, however the main build available on the dolphin site does not yet include these fixes.
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Did you try it out with the DSP HLE plugin? That's what he recorded with. Does your movie sync for you, Rolanmen1?
RachelB
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Yep, i used HLE for the dsp. It's not a desync though. Looking through the .dtm, 95% of it is either rapid fire a/b, or holding a+b, and nothing else. Not sure what that even is.
Rolanmen1
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CoolKirby wrote:
Did you try it out with the DSP HLE plugin? That's what he recorded with. Does your movie sync for you, Rolanmen1?
It syncs most of the time, but sometimes it desynchs.
Yep, i used HLE for the dsp. It's not a desync though. Looking through the .dtm, 95% of it is either rapid fire a/b, or holding a+b, and nothing else. Not sure what that even is.
In that case, i uploaded it again. Here
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Hi, I have recently been reading through the TAS sections of this site, learning a few things. I have thought about trying TAS's a few times in the past, but never gotten round to it. Figured this could be a good place to start as I have a fair bit of experience with playing the game casually and it's turn-based. Though before I even start anything, I would like to find out if anything had been done in regards to TAS techniques that could save me the trouble of figuring out. In regards to emulator usage, I would assume to just use the latest build as noted in the sticky thread. I have also enquired to RachelB about the sound plug-in, which should hopefully fix/get rid of the audio de-synch stuff that happens on the emulator.
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sam6555 wrote:
I have also enquired to RachelB about the sound plug-in, which should hopefully fix/get rid of the audio de-synch stuff that happens on the emulator.
The desync is caused by problems in video dumping. All except the very first published Dolphin run was dumped using modified version of Dolphin that dumps extra data that allows reconstruction of proper audio and video (both are bad). Obviously such modifications require locating source code for version that can play back the run correctly. Then there are a few GC games that use Disc track player (DTK) for music. Currently that music can't be dumped properly, but if such submission would land on the workbench, those problems would be worked out. ... But Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance doesn't appear to use DTK.
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Ilari wrote:
sam6555 wrote:
I have also enquired to RachelB about the sound plug-in, which should hopefully fix/get rid of the audio de-synch stuff that happens on the emulator.
The desync is caused by problems in video dumping. All except the very first published Dolphin run was dumped using modified version of Dolphin that dumps extra data that allows reconstruction of proper audio and video (both are bad). Obviously such modifications require locating source code for version that can play back the run correctly. Then there are a few GC games that use Disc track player (DTK) for music. Currently that music can't be dumped properly, but if such submission would land on the workbench, those problems would be worked out. ... But Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance doesn't appear to use DTK.
So I'm to assume the plug-in wouldn't fix the issue, or there's another way round it? When I played through the game on Dolphin, after a while the audio became out of sync with the gameplay by a second or two.
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sam6555 wrote:
When I played through the game on Dolphin, after a while the audio became out of sync with the gameplay by a second or two.
While playing? Haven't heard of stuff like that before. Perhaps some other sound driver could reduce it (dunno).
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Ilari wrote:
sam6555 wrote:
When I played through the game on Dolphin, after a while the audio became out of sync with the gameplay by a second or two.
While playing? Haven't heard of stuff like that before. Perhaps some other sound driver could reduce it (dunno).
Yep, whilst playing. After maybe 30mins-1hr after opening the FE:PoR ISO the audio will start to bug out and be out of sync by 1-2 seconds and/or you'll hear double of some noises. I'll try going through the game again on the latest build of Dolphin. Last I played I used Dolphin-win-x64-v3.5-367.
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I finally ordered a graphics card and with any luck, I'll be able to take a crack at TASing this game in about a week or two.
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So I have done a small thing. However I didn't realise I had my save file in and it made a difference so I had to add it into the RAR. DTM+Memcard file This being my very first attempt at TASing anything (done a few TAW's, which isn't quite the same) I have a few questions. Is there a way to go back one frame, or is save states the only method to go backwards? How should I know when to press buttons for menus, I found out FE:PoR can take menu inputs every frame, moving squares can be done every other frame with the D-Pad. But instead of alternating A every other frame to start menus and stuff, how should I know when the first frame is, that I can press it. Sure you can say just try it every frame until you get it, but there's no cues to when the first frame is as the menu isn't on-screen when it's clickable, least I don't think it was. I did have another question but can't remember what it was...oh well.
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But instead of alternating A every other frame to start menus and stuff, how should I know when the first frame is, that I can press it. Sure you can say just try it every frame until you get it, but there's no cues to when the first frame is as the menu isn't on-screen when it's clickable, least I don't think it was.
There's frame rules behind many actions in the game that you can either write down explicitly or learn intuitively from TASing the same actions over and over again. Think selecting one menu that makes you wait x frames to access another one. Except for occasional lag, the wait will always be those x frames. There are also visual cues you can use. So, for instance, you might be able to navigate a menu the frame before the menu appears, or on the same frame. I suppose that's a bit of an abstract description. I recommend you watch parts of the published GBA TASes frame by frame and watch carefully for patterns, and what I wrote above will start to make more sense.
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sam6555 wrote:
So I have done a small thing. However I didn't realise I had my save file in and it made a difference so I had to add it into the RAR. DTM+Memcard file
Note that you need a reason to use a save file for submissions (and a verification movie). So unless you want to do such run, better to start from clean card (or no card). Oh, and don't use RAR.
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@Vykan Yeah I'll have to trial it all out and make a notepad of frames till input after a visual cue or something. Given the nature of FE it 'shouldn't' be too many different timings to figure out. Assuming you're meaning to watch FE TASes for GBA. Maybe I'll give that a try, should prove interesting. @Ilari My reason for the memory file was because it was there when I started, forgot about it needing to be deleted. It wont be in anything future. Also used RAR cos the thing needed both the memcard+DTM file to be viewed. Also tried my hand at dumping a movie, too. Went okay, can't say I'm overly pleased with the quality, though the files output by Dolphin were 640x480 rather than something larger, oh well. Something to look into. Here's the file uploaded to youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA88RAi_vwU Something else about the video, in SVegas, I had to sync the audio and video files manually, not a problem, but I thought the A/V sync hack fixed this, judging by the name.
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sam6555 wrote:
Something else about the video, in SVegas, I had to sync the audio and video files manually, not a problem, but I thought the A/V sync hack fixed this, judging by the name.
Eh, it definitely should. Maybe the hack you used was of older version (note that the hack version is unrelated to dolphin version) that doesn't guard against DMA reprogramming. DMA reprogramming with avhack that doesn't guard against it results in A/V desync. First noticed with Billy Hatcher. ... Also watched the video. The luck manipulation doesn't look to be on par with past Fire Emblem TASes... In those, enemies rarely hit and players routinely deal double hits.
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The prologue is literally scripted, no-one can miss, no-one can double. The weapons held called ''Trainer'' prevent anything like that from happening. The vulnerary usage is required. Only thing able to be manipulated would be level ups. Speaking of, this was the question I forgot in a previous post. I have no clue where I would even start with luck manipulation with this, I read about luck manip on TASvideos a bit, reading how different inputs and situations could affect outcomes. All I can think that I would want to manipulate would be level-ups, and attacks, for enemies to miss and me to crit/double if needs be. I'd have no idea on inputs but I'd imagine that's just trial and error, the thing I'm mostly dumbfounded by is when to do it. I remember last time I played I used a save state at one time I had a crit, I tried moving my character round all different paths, equipping random weapons then back to the one that crit. The results would always be the exact same. Guess something I could try later on would be to delay level ups by a frame or however long, but I somehow doubt I'd get different stats going by this, but who knows.
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sam6555 wrote:
I have no clue where I would even start with luck manipulation with this, I read about luck manip on TASvideos a bit, reading how different inputs and situations could affect outcomes.
I think the main method of luck manipulation in past Fire Emblem TASes has been quickly changing the route back and forth before executing movement. For some reason random numbers were used in routing / path drawing... This can be seen in the encodes as the movement path shown wobbles. Dunno if similar trick works in this game...
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I downloaded the FE:SS .VBM earlier, but I wasn't able to play it. Assuming you open VBA go to Tools>Play>Play Recording. I navigated to where the .vbm file is both with the ROM open, and with it not, but it wouldn't play. Downloaded another .vbm (Castlevania:AoS) and it wouldn't play in that either. Tried on all versions of VBA I have: 1.8.0 beta3 1.8.0(SVN1030) Also called VBA-M 1.7.2 1.7.2 called VBAlink Watched the TAS via youtube and noticed the extra movement frames and other crazy stuff used to trigger good level ups and attacks. Somewhat unrelated. Which options do I alter to get Dolphin to output files with a resolution larger than 640x480, Looking in the config file I see these lines: RenderWindowXPos = 939 RenderWindowYPos = 125 RenderWindowWidth = 640 RenderWindowHeight = 480 Presumably the last two lines would make it larger, but would I also need to do anything about the other lines?
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For the FE8 run to sync, you need to use VBA Re-Recording V23.5. I recommend you read my submission comments since a lot of the same tricks will apply to this game. Luck manipulation will most likely be based on cursor movement, with the most RNs burned when you have a flier (or an unobstructed paladin) move the cursor diagonally as far as you can and alternate between 2 squares. To track changes in the RNG you'll have to find the RNG's address in whatever memory watch feature dolphin uses.
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A-ha, got it working. Turned on input display and can see all the wobbling/alternative pathing you do. I was going to come here and ask if anything like your RNG display had been done for PoR, but after a quick look through menus I don't see any form of memory search feature. Something I'll have to try is pressing A+B when selecting a character to move them. I figured the B press would cancel the movement menu/grid display so I alternated D-Pad directions every other frame, which worked, but maybe B+C-Stick would be even faster.
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According to this thread, you can run memory viewer in dolphin's debug mode by inputting Dolphin.exe /d in the command prompt (run -> cmd). I just tried it and got it to work. In all likelihood holding B will not make the cursor any faster (should always move at most once every 2 frames) but it will cause the camera to keep up with the cursor movement, which is generally more pleasing to watch I find. Though, in some cases it's actually faster for the camera to follow the movement as little as possible as to minimize camera transition... Kind of hard to explain, I'd have to show you where it's used in Toothache's FE6 TAS. By C-stick I assume you meant the analog/control stick since the c-stick only affects camera angles. They will probably come out to the same, but definitely test both because you never know. Now once you get memory viewer working, it's very important you locate the address for the RNG. Isolating it will be rather tricky because you need to find an action that burns only 1 RN at a time. First, see if you find an address that changes every time you move the cursor diagonally 1 square. I'd do this in prologue. Select Ike, move the cursor up+right in 1 frame, press b to cancel, check memory viewer, repeat. If path drawing is what affects the RNG like in the GBA games, you should be able to isolate the address(es) fairly quickly. If that doesn't work for some reason, try landing a low% crit (maybe 3-5%) and search for a value less than the displayed crit rate. I wouldn't bother with hitrates since those use 2 RNs and level-ups will use at least 8. If you're lucky it's possible acquiring desert items only use 1 RN, though they might use a different RNG altogether like in FE6.