A note to the judges: This run was actually finished seven months ago (back before the Snes9x deprecation), but I hadn't submitted it at the time.
This run is an improvement of 5184 frames (1:26.4) over the previous movie.

Game objectives

  • Emulator used: Snes9x 1.43 v17
  • Aims for fastest time
  • Abuses programming errors
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Manipulates luck

New Tricks

  • Normally, when shooting a bubble, Milon's speed will drop to 1 pixel per frame. This can be prevented by releasing the directional button at the same time.
  • Staying on the ground whenever wind is blowing against Milon will make him run faster than he does in the air. Likewise, staying off the ground is faster when it's blowing with him.
  • Shooting bubbles in the air will produce less lag than shooting them on the ground.
  • After obtaining the glide boots in World 3, the speed of Milon's falls can actually be increased by tapping B for a single frame when he starts to fall.
  • When swimming, it is slightly faster to release the directional keys after boosting. This also lets you charge attacks while still swimming forward.
  • When Milon has the ability to form ladders, pressing up+A after forming one will cause it to disappear sooner.

Level Comments

The two numbers in parenthesis are the number of frames saved in each segment and the total number of frames saved, respectively.

Title Screen and Intro (172, 172)

I ended the intro earlier, I'm not quite sure why Mukki didn't.

1-1 (0, 172)

No change.

1-2 (45, 217)

Sitting on the ends of the logs instead of riding in them saves quite a few frames. Thanks to bullethead2022 for that idea.

1-3 (69, 241)

Frames are saved by optimizing the jumps over the falling logs and getting boosts from the falling leaves.

1-4 (17, 258)

Taking the lower route at the start is a bit faster thanks to the slope. The lower route at the end is also a bit quicker, as it gets you past the bird in the way of the gondola without slowing down.

1-5 (27, 285)

Running in on the ground in windy levels is a bit faster than jumping through the air, so that saves most of the frames here.

1-6 (-42,243)

Normally, no change, but frames had to be lost after the level in order to manipulate the boss's attack pattern.

World 1 Boss (0, 243)

No change.

2-1 (51, 294)

Breaking the blocks is improved so Milon doesn't have to slow down at them.

2-2 (229, 523)

Block breaking is improved, and the path for jumping up to the area with the star is a bit faster. Jumping off of the ladders also saves a few frames over just climbing down it. In the second area, I also change the path in the middle slightly so that less blocks have to be broken.

2-3 (50, 573)

Block breaking is again improved, and the turns at the cookies are faster.

2-4 (4, 577)

Autoscroller, so there's not much room for improvement here. The transition between the first and second parts is improved, though. Bubblegum is also grabbed here for use in 3-2.

2-5 (128, 705)

Breaking blocks is improved, as well as the jumps off of ladders. The third-to-last and last champagne shots are improved by not holding a directional key, as well.

2-6 (134, 839)

Improved ladder hopping, and the path taken after the first ladder is changed. The turn at the key is also faster, as well as the fall after it.

World 2 Boss (1, 840)

A single frame is saved by hitting the boss with a bubble sooner.

3-1 (86, 926)

The turn at the star is faster, and after the star, a block hidden behind a pillar is used to make one of the jumps rather than an enemy.

3-2 (832, 1758)

The bubblegum obtained in 2-4 is used to skip a considerable part of the level. Tapestry hopping is also improved, as well as the charge shots near the star. In addition, jumping out of the area from the star is quite a bit faster than going back around.

3-3 (131, 1889)

The turns, falls, and tapestry hopping are all improved.

3-4 (84, 1973)

Improved tapestry hopping, turns, and falls, and also gained extra boosts from the arrow platforms and musical notes. In addition, the path taken at the end of the level is improved so you don't have to use an enemy.

3-5 (197, 2170)

Various minor improvements again, and at the end of the level the flying sheet music is used to bounce up to the goal without having to wait for the mouse to pop out of the wall.

3-6 (160, 2330)

Various minor improvements, and instead of having to wait for the second moving platform to come down to Milon, just hopping up to it will save a fair bit of time. In addition, I managed to avoid the attack from both the microphone near the glide boots and the one near the end, which saves a few frames. Getting the key is also improved, at the cost of spending a little time in darkness.

World 3 Boss (201, 2531)

I get a slightly different attack pattern, which lets me get on top of the boss's head sooner. An extra frame is also saved during the transition to 4-1.

4-1 (79, 2610)

Improved block-breaking, swimming, and turning, and avoided having the land in the water near the end.

4-2 (6, 2616)

The only improvement here is an extra boost from one of the waves.

4-3 (43, 2659)

Improved swimming and the charge shot.

4-4 (8, 2667)

Improved turns.

4-5 (125, 2792)

Improved swimming and charge shots.

4-6 (79, 2871)

Improved swimming, turns, and block breaking.

World 4 Boss (24, 2895)

Reduced lag. I could have also killed myself on the last frame before fadeout to glitch out the game, but unfortunately that creates a ton of lag.

5-1 (44, 2939)

Improved falling through the ice at the start, reduced lag from the bumpers. Block breaking and revealing is also improved.

5-2 (28, 2967)

At the end of the level, I reveal some blocks to reach the goal instead of using the bumper.

5-3 (58, 3025)

Improved turns.

5-4 (57, 3082)

Improved turning, block breaking and revealing, and melting the ice at the end of the level.

5-5 (158, 3240)

Increased time spent on the ground when going right, and decreased it when going left to save a considerable number of frames.

5-6 (50, 3290)

Improved turns and melting the ice.

World 5 Boss (3, 3293)

Optimized hits.

6-1 (194, 3487)

Improved block breaking and ladder hopping. In addition, took the lower route instead of the higher one, which skipped a ladder and a fall completely. The ladder formed near the door to the second room is also made on the edge of a block rather than on the floor below the door to reach it faster.

6-2 (40, 3527)

Warning: Incredibly long autoscroller. Frames managed to be saved by reducing lag and improving the transitions between rooms.

6-3 (394, 3921)

Pressing up+A will make ladders disappear earlier than they do on their own, which saves quite a bit of time in the places where you need to use multiple ladders. In the room with the star, a ladder is also used without ground to connect to in order to reach the star sooner. In addition, improved the ladder hopping as usual.

6-4 (4, 3925)

Another incredibly long autoscroller (thankfully, the last). Only a few frames saved from lag, this time.

6-5 (166, 4091)

Improved ladder/wall hopping and turns, and took the middle path halfway through the stage instead of the left to reduce horizontal travel.

6-6 (229, 4320)

Improved turns and block breaking, and took the higher route after pressing the black switch rather than the lower one to avoid one of Milon's "oh shit" animations. On the way to the end, I use a ladder so that I don't have to wait for the fire to subside.

World 6 Boss (57, 4377)

I managed to get a faster attack pattern for the sun.

7-1 (29, 4406)

Reduced lag and improved the turns and cannon shots, and also managed to clip a wall after being shot out of one of the cannons, which let me land sooner.

7-2 (20, 4426)

Increased time spent on moving platforms.

7-3 (611, 5037)

Huge chunk of time saved by running ahead of the toy horses instead of waiting for them to catch up.

7-4 (11, 5048)

Improved turns.

World 7 Mid-Boss (61, 5109)

I can't even tell where the improvement here came from. Lag, I guess?

7-5 (28, 5137)

Improved turns.

7-6 (0, 5137)

No change.

7-7 (8, 5145)

Improved block breaking.

Final Boss (39, 5184)

43 frames were lost due to a block of lag after the first phase is defeated, but 82 frames are saved in the second phase by manipulating the boss better for a difference of 39.

Special Thanks

  • Mukki for making the original run of this game
  • Bullethead2202 for providing me with her own run of the first world
  • DarkMoon for encoding the TAS

feos: Accepting to Moons. Great improvement! As for final snes9x 1.4x deprecation, this run was proven to be in progress long before that, and it was liked, so an exception is made.
feos: I'll encode this I think.

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Spikestuff
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I'm just questioning this before voting. You mentioned that you did it before the halt of snes9x, but, did you talk to Nach about it, just incase you were finishing it late?
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Spikestuff wrote:
I'm just questioning this before voting. You mentioned that you did it before the halt of snes9x, but, did you talk to Nach about it, just incase you were finishing it late?
<Nach> If you can prove it was well TAS'd most of it in progress for a long time, and not easy to redo, then fine [...] <TheGreekBrit> So, what's the verdict? <Nach> no idea <Nach> submit it, see what the judge says <Nach> submit with your proof The "proof" is the timestamps on the WIP videos that Kaizoman uploaded to his channel, which date back to mid-2011.
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NitroGenesis
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goofydylan8 wrote:
No vote
Did you read the first sentence?
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
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NitroGenesis wrote:
Did you read the first sentence?
Yup. And as an active member of the site kaizoman666 was well aware of the rule change and even was one of the people who used two of the continuances offered by Nach. He should have put it in there if he wanted to submit it. Not to mention his proof doesn't have the movie done, there is still a level left. For all we know he finished the movie a week ago and that is why he posted it today and as I said if he wasn't going to finish it until after the date he should have put in for a continuance. No reason to reject movies like I posted above and allow this one for doing the same thing.
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^ I saw the completed movie, with the final boss, back in October. I can confirm that this TAS was finished well before the depreciation.
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If this run is accepted then McBox's run should be rejudged and accepted to at very least the vault
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It's done on a case-by-case basis.
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goofydylan8 wrote:
No vote
Just because he was sitting on this run isn't a reason to hold it against him. Sure there was a cut-off point, but the quality of the run is impressive. There has to be some sort of compromise that can be reached in this case. As far as the run itself, I loved it. This was a great game that I stumbled on years back. This run does a good job showing off what the game has to offer and does so in a very entertaining fashion. The auto-scrolling levels are especially impressive because of their difficulty when playing in real-time, but this run makes them look like a joke just like any good TAS. The same can be said about some of the later levels too, this run makes them look deceptively easy. "Did you find this movie entertaining?" It gets a big yes vote from me. I hope the depreciation issue can be overcome with a comprise. I know I'm biased from having played the game, but I think it'd be a shame to let such an entertaining run go to waste.
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goofydylan8 wrote:
If this run is accepted then McBox's run should be rejudged and accepted to at very least the vault
Go home goobydolan your drunk
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
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The fact you'd rather an older, slower run performed on the same emulator remain on the site while the faster one gets rejected is fucking ridiculous. Then the site would be stuck with an "inaccurate" but unoptimized run (as opposed to just an inaccurate one) until somebody does it on Bizhawk/lsnes - what if it takes years or never even happens? This is a huge flaw in logic. Yes vote. I'm unfamiliar with the game but I found it entertaining :)
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bahamete wrote:
The fact you'd rather an older, slower run performed on the same emulator remain on the site while the faster one gets rejected is fucking ridiculous. Then the site would be stuck with an "inaccurate" but unoptimized run (as opposed to just an inaccurate one) until somebody does it on Bizhawk/lsnes - what if it takes years or never even happens? This is a huge flaw in logic. Yes vote. I'm unfamiliar with the game but I found it entertaining :)
Actually I am all for this run being accepted, but not if others who do runs on obsolete emulators (and only miss the cutoff date by a few days I might add as opposed to a few months like this run) have their runs rejected for no other reason that it is judged on a case by case basis. If someone is going to be rejected on a technicality then this one should to. Not that it matters it will get accepted
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While my vote goes for rejection for breaking the rules, I'll leave it to the judges to decide how to handle this case. What I want to know however is WHY ON EARTH DID YOU WAIT SEVEN MONTHS BEFORE SUBMITTING YOUR RUN????? D:
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i wonder is it possible for the game to get resubmited using the newer emulator like the case of SMAS lost levels a few months ago? if so I don't see why the harsh NO vote. I cant wait to see this later on tonight when I have free time and imo if its better and faster and better then the last run who cares if it is on a depreciated emulator and the first thing it does say was it was done 7 months ago but why sit on it ?
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SmashManiac wrote:
What I want to know however is WHY ON EARTH DID YOU WAIT SEVEN MONTHS BEFORE SUBMITTING YOUR RUN????? D:
Originally I wasn't going to submit it due to the incoming deprecation. But then Alex convinced me to do so after seeing my statement that I wasn't going to submit it.
supersonicjc wrote:
i wonder is it possible for the game to get resubmited using the newer emulator like the case of SMAS lost levels a few months ago? if so I don't see why the harsh NO vote.
If you're asking if this can be synced on Bizhawk/lsnes, it's a straight up no. The game doesn't even run on either emulator. snes9x master race EDIT: Nevermind, apparently.
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It seems a little weird to me that a run better than the current one in every way would be rejected and the worse one preserved. I understand the want to move to more accurate emulators, but maybe the line in the sand should be no backsliding along emulator accuracy (and don't use out of date ones period for games without runs yet/new branches) instead of don't use emulator X period. Edit: ...If it doesn't even run on those, then I really can't see any reason why it'd be rejected for not being made on them.
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kaizoman666 wrote:
The game doesn't even run on either emulator.
hahahahahAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHA That is fucking hilarious. ABSOLUTELY FUCKING HILARIOUS BEST so done
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you never know unless you ask so I guess we got the answer as to why you used a deprecated emulator, and that was the question I was going with sorry bout that just woke up for the day and all(night shifts suck) I will say this since I have had some time here now coffee and all this is so a yes vote from me here nice work
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kaizoman666 wrote:
If you're asking if this can be synced on Bizhawk/lsnes, it's a straight up no. The game doesn't even run on either emulator. snes9x master race
Has anyone even checked this? I just tried to play this game and it most definitely works on Bizhawk. I don't know much about Bizhawk but it says it can't open the movie file because "Movies that begin with a savestate are not supported" so I can't figure out if the movie syncs at all but I can assure you it runs in that emulator. If someone who has used Bizhawk before knows how to convert movies and want to give it a shot I would encourage them to test if it syncs. I just played through the first level with absolutely no issues and the game ran absolutely fine. I am not sure where that claim comes from as Bizhawk should have no problem running any SNES game. Edit Seriously. Were you all just going to trust that an emulator that is considered essentially frame perfect couldn't run this game? Just beat the third level running perfectly. As a side note I had never played this game before and it is quite fun.
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goofydylan8 wrote:
I just played through the first level with absolutely no issues and the game ran absolutely fine. I am not sure where that claim comes from as Bizhawk should have no problem running any SNES game.
Ah, apparently it's just a bad dump of the game that I have (the TAS still works fine, at least), thanks for pointing that out. I'm not quite sure why the other one doesn't work with Bizhawk or lsnes, I just get this. Though, either way, I was already done with five of the seven worlds before Bizhawk was even started anyway, and was certainly not going to be redoing it at that point. I also feel inclined that the Chuck Rock TAS you brought up earlier seems to have had several other problems that led to it's rejection aside from the fact that it didn't sync on BizHawk, including the fact that people didn't find it entertaining and that it was apparently over a minute slower than another run of the game on Genesis.
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goofydylan8 wrote:
I am not sure where that claim comes from as Bizhawk should have no problem running any SNES game. Edit Seriously. Were you all just going to trust that an emulator that is considered essentially frame perfect couldn't run this game?
Yoshi's Island has serious issues running in BizHawk. Also it isn't perfect. It's something like 89%.
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goofydylan8, thank you for bringing up the issue of whether this run is acceptable for publication. As a minor nitpick, though, I figure I should also mention that the poll question is "Did you find this movie entertaining?" It sounds to me like you find the game entertaining, so perhaps you answered No to the wrong question ;-) However, I am quite ok with your reason for putting up a No, and I don't hold that against you. If the run was done on an obsoleted emulator in good faith, does that merit a compromise here, as VanillaCoke suggested? For one thing, kaizoman666 didn't realize his ROM copy was a dump that wouldn't work with BizHawk. I'd be all in favor of saying that the spirit of the law (rather than the letter) was followed here, and then we could have a note in the judgement that says any future obsoletion must be done with Bizhawk or a more recent approved emulator. We've had precedent for things like this (one is the currently published Demon Sword run). In addition, I don't think the Chuck Rock run for the SNES serves as the best example here. From what I gathered, the run could be rejected on technical merit grounds. If that's not the case, I'm certainly fine with bringing that submission back up to probably go in the Vault. Anyway, as for a more relevant comment, it's awesome to see an improvement of this game got made. I have not yet checked it out, but I hope to do so soon. Thank you for making this, kaizoman666, whatever the outcome in the submission queue.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
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Alright, I've seen this. The game still feels too long for me to keep my interest peaked the whole time, but the movie was very well done. The stage where you keep ahead of the toy horses was especially interesting. Yes vote.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
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In cases where you have no detailed rules, you must just observe all possible aspects and make a decision that seems fair. 1. This run does not sync on BizHawk, it has a completely different lag picture in the beginning, I added 8 (!) blank frames to let it pass the title screen and then it desynced on the cutscene skipping. I expect all the movie not to sync throughout. 2. This run met some positive feedback, people want this published. 3. This run is a good improvement over the previous movie (made on the same emulator). 4. This run was started way before the snes9x issue appeared, and was possibly finished before that as well. 5. This run was not suggested for the continuances list. I think it is fair for me to pick this submission as well, as I rejected Chuck Rock due to using a deprecated emulator this run also uses. I also know we have another improvement done on snes9x in the Workbench and we somehow must work out the decision for both of them with no contradiction between the staff. So, using a deprecated but technically still supported emulator is the most important factor, but not the only one. And this site is not about disallowing the creators to share their hard work pieces. In such cases, we must look for enough reasons to make a positive exception. If there are not enough of them, no exception is done particularly. Chuck Rock met no reasons to make a positive exception, in my eyes. This run meets them. Super Turrican submission also seems to meet them. Let's cook some kind of a precedent here, I ask members and staff to examine my logics and respond.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.