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Posted: 12/5/2013 11:10 AM
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Warp
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Location: Finland
Radiant wrote:
Yes, but since popularity is not one of the criteria for the Vault, in practice it doesn't matter if people vote "vault" or "no" on a run, because if it fits Vault criteria it would be published there regardless of votes.
I think the idea was that "no" would mean "this should not be published (because there's a problem with it.)" OTOH, how to make sure to distinguish between "no, I didn't like it" and "no, this cannot be published"? I think a mere "no" is way too ambiguous.
Posted: 12/5/2013 11:13 AM
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Radiant
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I would say that whether a run has problems with it (making it unfit for publishing) is a matter of fact, and whether a run is entertaining is a matter of opinion. I don't see any point in voting on facts.
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Posted: 12/5/2013 11:18 AM
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Warp
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Joined: 3/10/2004
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And in circles we go. It doesn't matter what you want the poll answers to mean, people will still find it unnatural to vote "yes" on a submission that they feel is not fit for publication or "no" on a submission that they don't have any objection to being published.
Posted: 12/5/2013 11:58 AM
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Radiant
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Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
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Yes. Well, then I think we have two options. Either we change the rules for Vault Tier so that unpopular runs won't be eligible for that tier any more; or we add a line of text to the poll stating that people aren't voting on whether the game gets published, but on whether the game gets into Moon Tier.
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Posted: 12/5/2013 11:59 AM
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feos
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It does turn into voting for being published or not if the category is unvaultable.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 12/5/2013 12:11 PM
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Radiant
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Joined: 8/29/2011
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feos wrote:
It does turn into voting for being published or not if the category is unvaultable.
That's a good point. I'm not sure if it would be any better to have two kinds of votes though (one for moon/no moon and one for publish/no publish). Perhaps some careful wording can clear that up. ..."This vote is a factor in deciding whether to publish a movie in Moon Tier. Movies unsuitable for Moon Tier may be published in Vault Tier regardless of votes, assuming they meet the criteria for that tier". Anyway I've made my point here so I'm going to step away from this thread and let the Powers That Be decide what they're going to do here.
Indie game developer
Posted: 12/5/2013 12:13 PM
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feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
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If people prefer to misunderstand the simplest question ever, anything more complex will lead to worse.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 12/5/2013 1:55 PM
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adelikat
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Joined: 11/3/2004
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Trying not to guide this convo too much right now. But I will point out that the poll question using any mention of a specific tier is a non-starter. Tiers will change over time. What if we add a "regular" tier? Or a demos tier. Or a Pony tier? What if later we remove these? The whole point of the system is that it is flexible enough to change when site politics change. Should we change the poll each time this happens?
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Posted: 12/5/2013 3:24 PM
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KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
Perhaps simplifying it even more is what should be done, and by that I mean consider if the "Meh" option is even needed anymore. If the question is whether or not the viewer was entertained or not, Yes and No should suffice as options given that the vault is a thing that exists. If you were entertained, be it for thinking the movie was a lot of fun or for appreciating that it was a technically well-made movie even if the game itself isn't your cup of tea, then you can vote yes. If you were bored through and through, then that's a no. Since the question is "Did you find this movie entertaining", not "Did you find this movie good", then "no" and "meh" really seems like the same thing. The problem partly seems to stem from that there's no real agreement over what a "meh" vote actually means, so if there was no meh, there wouldn't be any confusion over it. Then it's a clear question with two possible clear answers. There shouldn't be any need for a third option, because everyone should be able to know if they were entertained or not when watching something. Someone who can't decide if they were entertained or not was, I'm pretty sure, not entertained and thus should vote no. Since the important part really is the discussion, perhaps it would be a good thing if you couldn't vote in a poll on the Workbench unless you've made a post in the thread - but I'm not sure if that's even doable. Or a good idea.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Posted: 12/5/2013 3:28 PM
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Scepheo
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Joined: 7/16/2009
Posts: 686
KennyMan666 wrote:
Since the important part really is the discussion, perhaps it would be a good thing if you couldn't vote in a poll on the Workbench unless you've made a post in the thread - but I'm not sure if that's even doable. Or a good idea.
Nah - if someone's posted in the thread their opinion is usually perfectly clear. If we were to require this before voting, we wouldn't really need voting anymore.
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