#4306: McHazard's Wii Doc Louis's Punch-Out!! in 01:40.15

Submission Text Full Submission Page
"Woowee! Thanks for joining Club Nintendo, Mac!"
  • Emulator: Dolphin 4.0-1522
  • Controller: Wiimote & Nunchuck
  • Audio: LLE Recompiler w/ Dolphin's DSP roms
  • MD5 of WAD: 3c4cee847c905e940d0d853f41daff55
    • Unverified; unable to find checksum to compare to.
Doc Louis's Punch-Out!! is an exclusive game that was released only to Club Nintendo Platinum members, and only in North America. It is by far the shortest Punch-Out game, and is really more like a demo for Punch-Out Wii. The game consists of only three different fights (all against the same opponent, Little Mac's trainer Doc Louis), fewer than even the arcade games, and the total in-game time is faster than SNES Super Punch-Out!! despite the ingame clock running faster.
As always with the Punch-Out games, the goal is fastest in-game time. Fastest real time is a secondary goal, but to my knowledge these are also the fastest real-time strats. The only places real time matters are menu navigation, skipping cutscenes, and one punch that happens while the in-game clock is stopped.
However, going through the menus as fast as possible means the fight times can only be seen by slowing down playback. To keep them visible at full speed, I sacrifice 20 frames at the end of each fight.

The Fights

For reference, the fastest unassisted times as of this submission are located here.
  • Warm-up: 40.52
    • Doc's guard depends on the number of punches Mac has thrown, mod 6; he will block punches 1 & 5. This is why there's so much punching at the air during the fight.
    • The sets of punches when Doc comes back to the center can't be done as fast as possible, or they'll land before the timer for his next move starts, delaying the next attack. For the sets of two the first punch is delayed, and for the set of three, it's the second punch.
    • The clock runs at 25% speed during stuns, and finishing the stuncombo makes Doc recoil with the clock at 100%, so it's better to just wait until he recovers.
  • Training: 41.83
    • In this fight Doc will let every 7th punch through and block everything else.
    • Starting here intentionally blocked punches are used to start the timer for the next attack sooner. This doesn't help for short delays, such as the one between the first two attacks.
    • A two-star punch will slow the clock down for longer after it lands than a one-star punch, and three-stars are even better. However, this happens if Doc's health gets too low, so a three-star punch can't be used in this fight.
  • Sparring: 39.38
    • Doc will never let an unstunned punch through in this fight, no matter how many punches are thrown.
    • The second attack has a long animation and counterpunching won't give up a star, so it's move canceled. This also prevents Doc from doing a much longer recoil animation when the next one is countered.
    • One more attack has to be canceled to get to the next star. The slow uppercut is chosen because, well, it's slow.
    • The 3-star punch is timed so it lands after Doc recovers from the stun, preventing a long delay before the final attack.
    • The final cutscene is the closest thing this game has to an ending, so I stop input at the last star punch and let that play out.
Total Time: 2:01.73

Nach: Weak audience response, but seems to be well TAS'd aside from some outside of play menu usage. Accepting for vault.
Ilari: fog is trying to encode this.

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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #4306: McHazard's Wii Doc Louis's Punch-Out!! in 01:40.15
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This sounds cool. Awaiting encode.
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CoolKirby wrote:
This sounds cool. Awaiting encode.
Link to video No Audio..
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This is a WiiWare game just before anyone goes through it and argue about 14 missing fights. Personally I feel as though the full game should be TASed not the WiiWare game. Also I think you could've hit Doc a few more times but it must be the waiting just to get those stars. I will refrain from voting. If you're curious on where I stand, I'm leaning towards Meh.
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Spikestuff wrote:
Personally I feel as though the full game should be TASed not the WiiWare game.
Pretty sure he plans on doing both!
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No vote for daring to present this short Wiiware game to us instead of spending weeks/months on a TAS of a different-though-related game for our entertainment.
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Don't find this interesting at all. I'd rather watch a full game run.
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A full run wouldn't include these fights, though. In fact, I don't think these fights are even on the PO game disc. I think the only way to fight Doc is to download Doc Louis's Punch-Out separately. (Which by the way was temporarily exclusive to people with a ton of Club Nintendo points.) Anyways, it's kind of automatically vault-tier.
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Catastrophe wrote:
Anyways, it's kind of automatically vault-tier.
However, going through the menus as fast as possible means the fight times can only be seen by slowing down playback. To keep them visible at full speed, I sacrifice 20 frames at the end of each fight.
This can be a problem though. I wonder can they be hex editted away?
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jlun2 wrote:
This can be a problem though. I wonder can they be hex editted away?
I think even for the vault, we could allow the sacrifice of 20 frames per fight in order to allow them to at least be seen. Watchability has to matter some. And this isn't breaking vault rules. In this case, in-game time is the yardstick for the record. Realtime is secondary. It still represents the fastest completion time within the context of this game.
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yes for vaulting
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adelikat wrote:
jlun2 wrote:
This can be a problem though. I wonder can they be hex editted away?
I think even for the vault, we could allow the sacrifice of 20 frames per fight in order to allow them to at least be seen. Watchability has to matter some. And this isn't breaking vault rules. In this case, in-game time is the yardstick for the record. Realtime is secondary. It still represents the fastest completion time within the context of this game.
Wouldn't this allow the clock stopping glitch TAS for the original game to be able to publish to vault though?
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Guys, Wii should give ratings for 110% out there... I know mathematically that the site can only give a 100%, but you can squeeeeeeze that extra 10% out for me Nach.
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jlun2 wrote:
adelikat wrote:
jlun2 wrote:
This can be a problem though. I wonder can they be hex editted away?
I think even for the vault, we could allow the sacrifice of 20 frames per fight in order to allow them to at least be seen. Watchability has to matter some. And this isn't breaking vault rules. In this case, in-game time is the yardstick for the record. Realtime is secondary. It still represents the fastest completion time within the context of this game.
Wouldn't this allow the clock stopping glitch TAS for the original game to be able to publish to vault though?
Well, the alternative is to allow a TAS that aims for fastest time (which the published tas most certainly does not) to go into the vault. Would you rather have a clock stopping glitch run, or a run that shows less skill that is faster? (For instance, doing a KO on Piston II which is trivial vs doing a very difficult TKO in less clock time)
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Thanks for the encode, solarplex. I liked seeing the strategies used for this short game (which is not a demo/promo; it was released after Punch-Out!! Wii and has completely different fights). Though, I can't say I found it very entertaining otherwise, so voting Meh.
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I wanted more, but I can't say what I saw wasn't entertaining. Yes, especially if the other game (which I really want to see) has different fights.
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adelikat wrote:
Well, the alternative is to allow a TAS that aims for fastest time (which the published tas most certainly does not) to go into the vault. Would you rather have a clock stopping glitch run, or a run that shows less skill that is faster? (For instance, doing a KO on Piston II which is trivial vs doing a very difficult TKO in less clock time)
Well, if this get's accepted to moons, It's alright I guess, but if it set's a precedent for ingame time runs for vault, all I'm thinking of is this. :P
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Whatever happened to the sound of that encode?
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Warp wrote:
Whatever happened to the sound of that encode?
It's just the nature of Dolphin that encodes without sound are a LOT easier to make than encodes with.
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I don't see the point of publishing a run of a game that is essentially a demo. Voting no.
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I would agree, if it was a short sample of content in the actual game. But it isn't that, it is unique content.
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Patashu wrote:
Warp wrote:
Whatever happened to the sound of that encode?
It's just the nature of Dolphin that encodes without sound are a LOT easier to make than encodes with.
Too bad, since at least half the charm of this game is the music and Doc talkin' smack. I usually watch TAS's on mute, but for this one I specifically turned off my own music to hear it and was disappointed D:
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Imagine if, say, Super Mario Bros. 1 had a promotional game that contained a full set of 4 levels with a Bowser at the end. These levels didn't exist in the released version; they were only in the promo. Is a TAS of this promo version, which contains content that is otherwise not available, somehow invalid for not being a TAS of the "actual game"? In other words, I don't have a problem with this TAS; looked good to me. But, like alden, I would like to have an encode with sound if possible. :)
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If the original content in this game would be three or four opponents you don't fight in the actual game, then I would understand. But this is just an extremely short sparring session with your coach. It also seems that it wouldn't take more than couple of minutes to beat unassisted, but I might be mistaken about that.