I don't think you ever lose ms as child, unless you unequip it, but i could be wrong.
This is correct.
Enterim wrote:
You'd have to do a pretty wacky beamos hover to get the silver rupee off the ceiling in the Spirit Trial to get those 20 chus, but that's what TASes are for, I guess. Cool route.
This is easy. I was able to select my file (that was saved in Ganon's castle as child), do the hover, get 20 chus, take damage down to half a heart and start talking to Zelda in about 3 minutes (on console). I'm hoping this will be faster for console MST runs.
ZFG ran a 23:29 earlier today, and lots of other runners have times under 30 minutes (many seen here). I can't wait to see how low a TAS can push it. Easily sub20 (from file select to Ganon stab) I think.[/url]
I don't see how doing Deku last is somehow going to cost 4 minutes over doing it at some other time. Because of the forest CS skip you'd have to walk all the way to Deku at some point anyway, so you're only costing the time it takes to play a warp song, plus maybe a slightly longer trip to the water temple. The crazy route with the 20 chus I think would be a lot of fun, so I hope it does end up end up being faster.
Somebody should probably test where the fire temple warp leads you with this method *looks at Grunz*.
To get to the loading zone there, you have to hover a little and to make it in time you'll probably have to burn through quite a few chus. But it would still be interesting to know where it puts you and maybe it could be usefull for MST.
Btw. Grunz I do have a few other ideas. Find me on IRC in the next few days.
Edit:
Sockfolder was nice enough to test the fire temple wrong warp. It puts you at the first floor of ganons tower.
Also r0bd0g had an interesting thought in #zelda. It was discovered a long time ago that medallion/stone cutscene skipping with timers (like the odd mush timer) freezes the game in Dodongos Cavern, Fire Temple and Deku Tree. But now we know that the game only freezes in those dungeons if you have watched the wrong cutscene beforehand.
So there might be more wrong warp alternatives with these timers. (might also be that they crash no amtter what, but I don't believe so)
Also if you bottle dupe over a timer item it brings you back to your last entrance. Combine that with a blue warp and you get a new wrong warp. aperently deku tree will bring you to the shadow temple boss room.
Edit2: Fire Temple and eyeballfrog should theoretically lead to the credits... ofcourse longest trade item + temple combination ever. XD
Edit3: yeah eyeballfrog + FT to credits is confirmed.
This is so incredible what happened to this game in all these years. I was new to the whole Speedrunning community when this happened and was considered groundbreaking. 7 years later and we just need 20 minutes to beat this game. Simply amazing what you guys did, keep up the excellent work!
Since we're on a nostalgia/praise kick, I'll throw my cents in the bucket. I too remember when TSA's sub-5 had just come out, and we were still trying to figure out seamwalking. Now we have all these insane ways to break the game; forget the specific categories and finished submissions, the process has been the most exciting part of all this to behold.
[now I go back to lurking]
Even if a trick to skip mido did save time, don't you still need shield to get into gohma room, and deku sword for isg?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
This is so incredible what happened to this game in all these years. I was new to the whole Speedrunning community when this happened and was considered groundbreaking. 7 years later and we just need 20 minutes to beat this game. Simply amazing what you guys did, keep up the excellent work!
Sad that the download doesn't work anymore. Would have loved to skip through the run, even though now we know that it was probably spliced, just to see how the route looked back then.
I also remember those times when you had to tell people that they needed the divx codec and they still wouldn't get it. Now everybody and their mother has a player capable of that codec.
My question is, why does he spam "Start" after doing the ocarina-bottle thing?
Pause buffer. It allows you to advance the game a single frame at a time. It is necessary because the trick is frame perfect. A single frame early, and you end up outside of gohma's room, a frame late you get the normal deku tree dying cs.
You need to move the camera at a specific time to stop the timer. After that, you can stand around all day, and nothing will happen, so you can open the door whenever you want. You do need to be a certain position when you open the door though.
I guess eyeballfrog + Fire Temple might be usefull for a MQ any% TAS.
From Swordless' MST run we know that from the start of the Ganondorf dying cutscene to the last input it takes slightly more than 10 minutes. Plus 2:30 for collecting the bottle, plus whatever deku tree and that ghoma setup is. So let's say 13 minutes, to be on the save side here.
That's quite a bit of time.
Ofcourse an eyeballfrog route would have to do quite a bit.
- Get 5 chus from Gerudo training ground chest
- Get odd mush from chest
- become adault
- do trading from cojiro up to eyeballfrog
- get red tunic (bomb the little goron shit)
- do fire temple
- wrong warp to lon lon ranch part of the credits
A few problems with this are:
- only 5 chus. I think this is the main problem. I goubt we can do all the things that need to be done in 5 chus. Especially the Fire Temple BK skip would be a problem.
Going to spirit temple would probably cost way too much time, especially since you would have to take the Requiem cutscene.
- Going from ZD to Fire Temple and beating it in 3 minutes might be a little optimistic. But I think a TAS should be able to do it. (Edit: actually if it becomes a problem you can just take off the goron tunic for a while and stop the eyeballfrog timer with the heat timer as long as you like)
- Like I listed above Goron Tunic is needed for the eyeballfrog timer to take effect in Volvagias chamber. Otherwise it's overwritten with the heat timer.
The tunic can be gotten fairly quickly but it would cost us at least 2 explosives. (one to blow up the little goron and one to slide past the thing in his daddys chambers)
Still, might be a fun project for somebody after the normal any% is through.
Edit:
Yeah to kill the Fire Temple miniboss will also take chus, if we don't have the hookshot. So more than 5 chus are definatly required. Having to go to spirit might make this slower than the other route...
Edit2:
@Grunz
Just noticed something important about the normal any% again. I wrote you a PM.
Since we're on a nostalgia/praise kick, I'll throw my cents in the bucket. I too remember when TSA's sub-5 had just come out, and we were still trying to figure out seamwalking. Now we have all these insane ways to break the game; forget the specific categories and finished submissions, the process has been the most exciting part of all this to behold.
[now I go back to lurking]
I distinctly remember when Infinite Sword Glitch was discovered, and no one really thought it would be useful for anything.
And now the game is going to be beat in under 20 minutes. Holy shit.
I've been keeping track of the threads on here for I don't know how long, and I definitely plan to continue to do so. Just wanted to say what you guys are doing is fucking awesome and I look forward to new developments!
Would have loved to skip through the run, even though now we know that it was probably spliced, just to see how the route looked back then.
...I've been out of it for a bit. Did not know that had happened. Just did some interesting reading. My mind is a little bit blown.
Can you elaborate? Was TSA's run not legit? And I think AKA beat his record a few months later.
About a year ago it was discovered that TSA recorded basically all of his "single segment" runs in segments and then spliced those together.
That's also why SDA doesn't have a Wind Waker run anymore.
By now I watched that run. Thanks for linking it Phallosvogel.
That is really fun. I came here way after that. In fact I think we already had RBA. Don't know if dot skip was there already anymore. It's hard to imagine that people used to play through all the dungeons for any%.
My question is, why does he spam "Start" after doing the ocarina-bottle thing?
He's using frame advance. It's useful when trying to do perfection. The OoT speedruns are getting so maxed that they have to use frame advance, like we do in emulators.
But I was wondering here: since it's possible to warp to Ganon's tower, shouldn't there also be some place in the game where you would be able to warp to the last Ganon fight instantly, or the ending sequence, making the run even faster?
Slowking wrote:
About a year ago it was discovered that TSA recorded basically all of his "single segment" runs in segments and then spliced those together.
lol, I always knew there was something wrong with his run, because his name was TSA, which was a freudian slip and an anagram for TAS. I've studied psychology for years so I know it's not a coincidence that he chose a name so similar to TAS. He was using a bit of tool-assitance in the run because he was using segments, which is kinda like using save states, but he tried to deny it by calling it single-segment.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Please excuse my ignorance on the subject, but is there any reason why the fairy ocarina could not be used in place of the bottle ocarina when executing a wrong warp?
Please excuse my ignorance on the subject, but is there any reason why the fairy ocarina could not be used in place of the bottle ocarina when executing a wrong warp?
cant use it on the boss room.
TAS i'm interested:
Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS?
i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
