Current:
Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD
Paused:
N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair)
GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven)
TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6439
Location: The land down under.
jlun2 wrote:
Why are people still using that to TAS?
Why not.
It's a "Deprecated emulator" which means it's "not recommended" but it doesn't mean that it isn't allowed. If the emulator is allowed then there is no issue there.
Let me run down the emulators that are deprecated but still can be accepted.
SNES9x 1.51, VBA (GB/C), Mupen64, PCSX-rr, Yabause and Dega.
Even though MAJORITY (almost all) is now under Bizhawk doesn't show that they cannot be used/avoided.
Well unless you're a crazy psychopath that likes a lot of desync. Be my guest and use that emulator (referring to Mupen). It's not my problem that you're using a emulator that isn't recommended. What? You lost 90% of your progress because you didn't create backups. Well that's too bad.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
Spikestuff wrote:
jlun2 wrote:
Why are people still using that to TAS?
Why not.
It's a "Deprecated emulator" which means it's not recommended but it doesn't mean that it isn't allowed. If the emulator is allowed then there is no issue there.
Because Mupen is absolutely terrible.
Anyway, the reason people are using Mupen for Mario 64 is that it leads to slightly faster times, which is actually really important if you try to aim for sub 5-minutes on a run like this.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Why not.
It's a "Deprecated emulator" which means it's not recommended but it doesn't mean that it isn't allowed. If the emulator is allowed then there is no issue there.
Because Mupen is absolutely terrible.
Anyway, the reason people are using Mupen for Mario 64 is that it leads to slightly faster times, which is actually really important if you try to aim for sub 5-minutes on a run like this.
But then TASes are simply not legit. When people deliberately use inaccurate emulators for faster times, it hurts the TAS community.
Current project: Gex 3 any%
Paused: Gex 64 any%
There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
More importantly, the real N64 has more lag frames than Mupen. Watch one of the console verification videos and compare the time. Of course, if we played back the movie on the Virtual Console version the amount of lag may be closer to that of Mupen.
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player
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Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
andypanther wrote:
But then TASes are simply not legit. When people deliberately use inaccurate emulators for faster times, it hurts the TAS community.
I very very much agree with this.
In reality, Sm64 0 star is no where near sub-5, as evidenced by the console verification of it.
What's going to happen is that Sm64 tasers will use mupen deliberately to get sub 5, then market it as "Sm64 beaten in less than 5 minutes!" knowing this is not actually true. It is misleading, will get lots of extra youtube views, but isn't doing the community any favors.
What's the problem if we're either close to sub 5 or not? The TAS is really amazing and entertaining, that's what matters!
By the way, pastatsh uploaded a comparision between the new and the 5:01.25 TAS:
Link to video
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
The framerate difference is quite small, yes - the difference lies in how lag is emulated. Mupen has less lag than N64 and BizHawk, which causes a few seconds of difference.
Looking at the console verification video on YouTube of the 5:02.25 run, on console it appears to be roughly 5:04.xx or thereabouts - thus adding about 2 seconds' worth of lag.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Anyway, the reason people are using Mupen for Mario 64 is that it leads to slightly faster times, which is actually really important if you try to aim for sub 5-minutes on a run like this.
I doubt it. I'm pretty sure they are just more comfortable using Mupen because you can compare frames so easily with previous runs.
Talk to sonicpacker, Kyman, mkdasher and all the alike; they pretty much know any key frame number for various checkpoints (say, lakitu skip ends at 1609, key1 is frame 3400; yes I am making these up, haven't TASed SM64 in a while, but you get my point).
Plus, SM64 has to be one of the best-emulated games available on Mupen so I really wouldn't have a problem if people kept using it for SM64.
Although, IIRC you can convert .m64 files to .bkm for SM64 because lag frames don't influence the inputs and it will still sync with some hex editing. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
That being said, kudos to snark and ToT. Those guys never cease to amaze me!
Anyway, the reason people are using Mupen for Mario 64 is that it leads to slightly faster times, which is actually really important if you try to aim for sub 5-minutes on a run like this.
I doubt it. I'm pretty sure they are just more comfortable using Mupen because you can compare frames so easily with previous runs.
Talk to sonicpacker, Kyman, mkdasher and all the alike; they pretty much know any key frame number for various checkpoints (say, lakitu skip ends at 1609, key1 is frame 3400; yes I am making these up, haven't TASed SM64 in a while, but you get my point).
Everyone uses checkpoints for creating TASes. The current published run was converted, so what's the problem using the bkm version instead? Your checkpoints are at different frames, due to more accurate lag emulation. But the amount, timed from the first input of the segment to the end of segment, is still the same.
I'm also currently working on a TAS of a SNES game, of which the older current published run was done on an inaccurate emulator (snes9x 1.4). That doesn't prevent me doing it on lsnes. Snes9x 1.4 is banned, but even if it would be still allowed, I'd really do it on the more accurate emulator.
Nahoc wrote:
Plus, SM64 has to be one of the best-emulated games available on Mupen so I really wouldn't have a problem if people kept using it for SM64.
This doesn't mean that the emulator is the best emulating one. The most accurate emulator should always be chosen, except it is a long time project.
Nahoc wrote:
Although, IIRC you can convert .m64 files to .bkm for SM64 because lag frames don't influence the inputs and it will still sync with some hex editing. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
Yes, you can. There's a lua script that let's you do that. You can also check everything with hex editing if input starts on the first possible frame.
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California
adelikat wrote:
What's going to happen is that Sm64 tasers will use mupen deliberately to get sub 5, then market it as "Sm64 beaten in less than 5 minutes!" knowing this is not actually true. It is misleading, will get lots of extra youtube views, but isn't doing the community any favors.
Maybe we should just switch to VC so no lag is present whatsoever!! Then we can claim sub-5 legitimately when it happens, right?! Since it's an OFFICIAL emu :)
i just want to cause controversy like usual [so the sm64 thread passes oot in pages!!], please ignore me
Maybe we should just switch to VC so no lag is present whatsoever!! Then we can claim sub-5 legitimately when it happens, right?! Since it's an OFFICIAL emu :)
I know you're being sarcastic, but it sounds like a plausible idea. Also, don't VC games have a notice that last several seconds on bootup that says something like "gamecube or classic controller is needed." That alone would make switching to VC pointless, at least for the 0 star run.
