This is one of those games that I don't think should be dropped to vault simply due to less than stellar post-publication ratings. Even though the ratings aren't fantastic, the forum feedback and voting from when it was submitted was quite positive.
I believe the reason for this was because it was prior to the existence of vault. If a game did not get positive feedback for entertainment on the forums, it did not make its way onto the site. Therefore it might have received some inflated feedback while on the workbench as a result.
So if it was entertaining enough to be published before the vault existed, doesn't that automatically make it better than vault level entertainment?
Edit: If not, every current publication that was accepted before the vault existed needs to be re-evaluated to see if it needs to be demoted.
Entertainment was not even the critical factor back then, at least not the one explicitly asked by the poll. People did find it somewhat entertaining back then, and voted YES IT SHOULD BE PUBLISHED, but then changed their minds and gave it shitty ratings. Nothing new here.
DrD2k9 wrote:
Edit: If not, every current publication that was accepted before the vault existed needs to be re-evaluated to see if it needs to be demoted.
You mean demoted to vault? Isn't this thread the place where we're doing this already?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Entertainment was not even the critical factor back then, at least not the one explicitly asked by the poll. People did find it somewhat entertaining back then, and voted YES IT SHOULD BE PUBLISHED, but then changed their minds and gave it shitty ratings. Nothing new here.
Thanks for the clarification. I didn't realize the poll used to be based on publication worthiness as opposed to entertainment.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
While I understand the reason (mediocre ratings) that a bunch of runs are being recommended for demotion to vault...it's still a bit discouraging to see that so many runs aren't considered very entertaining.
While I understand the reason (mediocre ratings) that a bunch of runs are being recommended for demotion to vault...it's still a bit discouraging to see that so many runs aren't considered very entertaining.
I suppose what's happening is that as the number of TASes has reached the several thousands, and their novelty has faded a bit, the standards of entertainment have got stricter, and thus what was once considered brilliant might now be considered merely "good". And merely good might not be enough anymore.
Anyways, could we please stop considering putting a run in vault a "demotion"? I'm still rallying for the bad reputation of vault to be removed from the common consciousness. It shouldn't be considered a garbage dump where all the "boring" runs are thrown into. It shouldn't be a shame to get a run into vault. If you get your run published, that means that it's, essentially, the world record TAS for that game, and that shouldn't be something to be ashamed of. That should be an achievement worthy of pride.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Anyways, could we please stop considering putting a run in vault a "demotion"? I'm still rallying for the bad reputation of vault to be removed from the common consciousness. It shouldn't be considered a garbage dump where all the "boring" runs are thrown into. It shouldn't be a shame to get a run into vault. If you get your run published, that means that it's, essentially, the world record TAS for that game, and that shouldn't be something to be ashamed of. That should be an achievement worthy of pride.
I share your perspective on the value/achievement of vault runs. I enjoy creating TASes even when they are fully expected to land in the vault due to current guidelines.
Unfortunately (at least regarding the vault), the emphasis of the site is on entertainment. From an entertainment perspective, having a run moved to vault is indeed a demotion in perceived entertainment value.
While the vault does carry this inherent negative connotation when perceived from an entertainment perspective; a TAS having a reputation as being unentertaining does not necessarily equate to it having a bad TAS reputation. Example: Atari Dragster is vaulted and has poor entertainment value, but quite high technical ratings. Omnigamer and MrWint's work had a huge impact on gaming history and was a generally well received submission.
In my opinion, the fact that the vault exists proves that the community (or, at minimum, the current/past site staff) does place a value on these runs. The vault's mere presence honors these works for they achievement(s) they are.
That said, I doubt you're ever going to change the minds of those who do view the vault negatively.
...If you're expecting people to refrain from saying less than positive things about TASes they might not like, then there's no point in a tiering system at all. If this makes some TASes seem lesser in importance, that's kind of the point? Keep in mind, if there was no value to Vault runs at all, they wouldn't be on the site. However the value Vault movies do have is different from that of those in Moons and Stars.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
How do you even make these decisions? Even if the cutoff was 6, this movie is still right at 6. But in reality, we account for some people whose entertainment notion is more strict (like myself), so they give Vault votes to what the site considers lower Moons. So even a bit below 6 is still okay in most cases.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands
Arc wrote:
How do you explain this?
It appears I made a mistake with the tier while attempting to set the fastest completion flag for the any% movie. It should be in Moons, which I've corrected now. Thanks for reporting.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
I looked at the ratings and it's not that most people rate it as crappy, it's just a few ratings around 6, and then a single "no, it's crap" rating. We still acknowledge this as important, but right there it looks more like an exception, while overall the movie is mildly entertaining.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
How do you explain this?
