1 2
19 20 21
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Just throwing this out there (which I think I did several pages back): The E version of Battletoads has different bugs. You don't need to die in stage 11 in 2P, as it works. It'd be interesting to see a TAS with that version.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Lobsterzelda
He/Him
Skilled player (1256)
Joined: 3/17/2019
Posts: 282
Nach wrote:
Just throwing this out there (which I think I did several pages back): The E version of Battletoads has different bugs. You don't need to die in stage 11 in 2P, as it works. It'd be interesting to see a TAS with that version.
Well, the one downside to this is that the E version is about a minute slower in real time. I'm not sure what people would prefer as far as TASes of the game is concerned: 1 which has a one-time 10 seconds slowdown due to faulty programming, or one with a minute slowdown spaced throughout due to the game running at a slower frame rate?
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
As the mechanics between versions are somewhat different, I don't see why we cannot have both published side by side. There's many differences throughout the game. I just pointed out one of them above.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Lobsterzelda
He/Him
Skilled player (1256)
Joined: 3/17/2019
Posts: 282
Nach wrote:
As the mechanics between versions are somewhat different, I don't see why we cannot have both published side by side. There's many differences throughout the game. I just pointed out one of them above.
Are there any version-exclusive glitches on the E version which save time over the USA version?
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Does it matter? It's a similar yet different game which hasn't been TAS'd yet.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
EZGames69
He/They
Publisher, Reviewer, Expert player (4456)
Joined: 5/29/2017
Posts: 2761
It should matter because I do not think having PAL alongside NTSC is that interesting if the only difference is the game over glitch not being a thing.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Lobsterzelda
He/Him
Skilled player (1256)
Joined: 3/17/2019
Posts: 282
Nach wrote:
Does it matter? It's a similar yet different game which hasn't been TAS'd yet.
If there's no version-exclusive glitches, then both games would essentially be identical TASes. The only difference would be that one would run at a faster speed and have a 10 second period of doing nothing, while the other would run at a much slower speed but would skip the 10 second period of doing nothing. In my opinion, they aren't different enough to merit publishing a TAS of each version side-by-side.
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
EZGames69 wrote:
It should matter because I do not think having PAL alongside NTSC is that interesting if the only difference is the game over glitch not being a thing.
Who told you that's the only difference? Several levels have to be played differently due to a different bug set.
Lobsterzelda wrote:
Nach wrote:
Does it matter? It's a similar yet different game which hasn't been TAS'd yet.
If there's no version-exclusive glitches, then both games would essentially be identical TASes.
You're thinking about this wrong. Since many of the U version glitches do not exist in the E version, you cannot make use of them and will have to use others. Therefore the TASs will not be identical.
Lobsterzelda wrote:
The only difference would be that one would run at a faster speed and have a 10 second period of doing nothing, while the other would run at a much slower speed but would skip the 10 second period of doing nothing. In my opinion, they aren't different enough to merit publishing a TAS of each version side-by-side.
I don't know why you think the only difference is in stage 11.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
EZGames69
He/They
Publisher, Reviewer, Expert player (4456)
Joined: 5/29/2017
Posts: 2761
Nach wrote:
Just throwing this out there (which I think I did several pages back)
I tried finding this comment from before and did not find anything.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
EZGames69 wrote:
Nach wrote:
Just throwing this out there (which I think I did several pages back)
I tried finding this comment from before and did not find anything.
It was probably in some other thread then.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
Nach wrote:
You're thinking about this wrong. Since many of the U version glitches do not exist in the E version, you cannot make use of them and will have to use others.
"Others" need to be discovered first.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Memory
She/Her
Site Admin, Skilled player (1552)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1765
Location: Dumpster
Can we provide some sources on all this?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Post subject: PAL Battletoads
Joined: 5/1/2007
Posts: 294
Location: MD
One time I created my own Battletoads fan game. It featured dash jumps and one character's physics I tried to make as close to the NES Battletoads as I could. I wasn't too happy with the finished product, though. But never mind that. I'd like to know which other bugs were fixed in the European version, besides the 2nd Clinger Winger being fixed by having both Clinger Wingers use the same timer (so Zitz isn't forced to use up a continue in a 2-player game). That might also include Terra Tubes' OOB glitch being fixed as well. I think it's important to consider the branches from a general audience's POV. What are other gameplay differences between the US and EU versions, other than the changes made to Volkmire's Inferno such as the logs being replaced with platforms? It's fine having PAL as its own category(ies) on speedrun.com, but while we're on the subject of TASvideos (I echo what EZGames69 stated), the EU version might not have enough interesting differences to warrant its own branch. But it's not to discourage you from digging deeper into finding differences with the EU version further.
I like Doraemon
Post subject: New Category Idea
Lobsterzelda
He/Him
Skilled player (1256)
Joined: 3/17/2019
Posts: 282
I have an idea for a category which would please people who are disappointed that the warpless runs skip major parts of levels 3 and 5 and people who want a 2 players TAS that doesn't gameover in level 11: I propose that a 2 Players Warpless Glitchless TAS of Battletoads be made. The rules for this category would be as follows: 1. No using the warp portals 2. No using the checkpoint glitches to skip parts of levels 3 and 5. 3. No holding Left+Right at the same time. 4. No void-jumping. 5. No clipping out of bounds. 6. No clipping through checkpoint walls. 7. No hitting the rat to end level 10 early 8. No graphics corruption in level 4 (technically, this doesn't even really save time to do, and it's debatable if this is even a glitch, but for purity sake, it may as well be banned). This TAS would be played on the PAL version of the game, in order to avoid gameovering in level 11. With the above rules in place, the levels of the TAS would look as follows: 1. Level 1 would be the same as the current 2 players warpless TAS. 2. Level 2 would also be more or less the same as the current 2 players warpless TAS. 3. Level 3 would play through the entire turbo tunnel section, instead of ending the level early. 4. Level 4 would have normal graphics. Additionally, checkpoint walls wouldn't be clipped through, the toads wouldn't clip through the floor towards the end of the level (which skips a hallway in the current 2P warpless TAS), and the final checkpoint would have to be activated w/o forcing the screen to scroll up with L+R. 5. Level 5 would play through the whole level instead of doing the checkpoint glitch. Additionally, tricks like killing Big Blarg in one hit could be seen, which doesn't appear in any of the currently published TASes. 6. Level 6 would be basically the same as the 2 player warpless TAS, including damage boosting and death boosting to skip various snakes. 7. Level 7 would be more or less the same as the 2 players warpless TAS. 8. Level 8 would have to climb up the first half of the level without using the L+R glitch to force the screen to scroll up. The second half of the level would be essentially the same as what the 2 player TASes do there. 9. Level 9 would look very different up to the first checkpoint, since the toads wouldn't be allowed to go out of bounds, which would allow for the first hallway that is normally skipped to be visible. Furthermore, the screen scrolling, checkpoint wall clipping, and out of bounds death trick would be skipped. This would also prevent several of the hallways from being skipped which the current TASes of the game all ignore. 10. Level 10 would have the biggest differences compared to all of the other TASes of the game. Because the rat-glitch couldn't be used to end the level, the 3 rat races and the boss fight against General Slaughter would have to be played through. This is one of the biggest selling points for this TAS, since even though there are 4 currently published TASes of Battletoads on TASVideos, no TAS beats General Slaughter or plays through the last 2 rat races (and with how fast these rat races are, this would be a time where the superplay of a TAS could really shine through). 11. Level 11 would not have a game over in it, which would also allow for the viewer to see what the boss fight would look like with 2 players. 12. Level 12 wouldn't hold Left+Right to force the screen to scroll up, and couldn't use Left+Right dash to skip the final stretch of platforming before the end of the level, but other than that, the level would be pretty similar to the 2P warpless TAS. 13. Level 13 (the dark queen boss fight) would be the same as in the 2P warpless TAS. I figure that if a mega man 2 zipless TAS could be a popular move on TASVideos, then there's no reason to think that a Battletoads 2 Players Waprless Glitchless movie couldn't be popular either. The main disadvantages of this movie are that it has a lot of gameplay overlap with the 2P warpless TAS, and it plays on PAL (which makes it take like 20% longer than it would otherwise due to the slower frame rate). Additionally, it's possible that viewers would rather the turbo tunnel and level 5 be skipped since these are mostly autoscrollers, in which case the TAS would lose a lot of its appeal. In the meantime, I'm just about ready to finish up with my 2 Players Warps TAS of Battletoads that I've been working on. If at least one judge or 3 TASers with movies published think that this is a worthwhile TAS to make, then I would consider taking this on as my next project when I finish my current TAS... Let me know what y'all think of this idea! I look forward to getting the community's feedback on this proposal.
Post subject: Battletoads 2P Warp from Level 3 to 5 Found!
Lobsterzelda
He/Him
Skilled player (1256)
Joined: 3/17/2019
Posts: 282
Hello everybody. I am writing a message here to keep you all updated on a big new trick that's been found in Battletoads. Additionally, I want to get feedback from other people as to whether or not this particular trick would be acceptable for a non-game-end glitch TAS of Battletoads. Background: For some background context, you can read the description on this userfile movie here: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/66281983305428941#Comment665 But anyways, here's the shorthand version: A few months ago, Koorvex discovered some long-lost videos of an unfinished Battletoads 2P warps TAS that was abandoned sometime in 2012 or 2013. This TAS contained a different strategy for level 10, which I was able to include in the new TAS of Battletoads that was published, which saved about 2 seconds over the old run. Recently, Koorvex emailed Zlomus to ask him if he had any other information about the videos. In response, Zlomus sent him a movie file of a movie from 7-8 years ago where the checkpoint glitch is used in level 3 to warp directly to level 5, skipping level 4 entirely! Technical Details: Current 2P Warps TAS Strategy: In the currently published 2P warps TAS, after the checkpoint glitch is activated in level 3 (which occurs when you die on the jets before hitting the first checkpoint), the game starts loading objects based on the values contained in certain memory addresses which normally wouldn't be used to load objects. One of these addresses happens to contain player 2's inputs on the last frame (represented as a number from 0-255), which lets us control the ID of the object that spawns. Using this, we spawn the object with ID 0X7F. Whenever this object is loaded, the game starts a countdown to the next level, after which we move on to level 4, skipping the rest of the turbo tunnel. Current Any% TAS Strategy: Next up, we have the current "Any%" TAS of Battletoads (this is more accurately referred to as the "game-end glitch" branch on the website, but i'll write any% here anyways so people reading this post who aren't familiar with the current Battletoads TASes understand that this TAS represents the fastest possible way to beat Battletoads). Much like in the 2P warps TAS, we start off by activating the checkpoint glitch in level 3. This time, however, we make it so that an object loads which has a corrupted function pointer. Thus, when the game tries to follow this pointer, the PC gets set to some invalid instruction left near the end of the ROM. From here, the PC keeps executing invalid instructions that do nothing except advance to the next instruction. When the PC gets high enough, it jumps back to the beggining of the code in the ROM, which happens to be the start of the function that loads the end cutscene. As a result, the game ends, and Battletoads is beaten in a short 2 minutes without ever fighting the dark queen! New TAS Strategy: Lastly, we arrive at the TAS re-discovered by Koorvex, which is the reason for this post in the first place. In this case, we do the checkpoint glitch in level 3 to start things off, just like in the other TASes. Then, we make an object load with a corrupted function pointer. When the PC tries to jump to the first line of code in the object's function, it instead jumps to the first line of code of the function that gets called when we activate a warp portal. Because of this, the game thinks that we touched the warp portal (even though it was never even loaded into memory), and we jump ahead to level 5, skipping level 4 completely! Issues of Validity: Given the nature of how glitches are used in all 3 TASes, there are certain issues that will arise if a new 2P Warps TAS is made which uses the new trick to skip level 4. The 2P Warps TAS is supposed to represent the fastest way to beat the game without activating the game-end gltich, which in the past meant that the checkpoint-glitch could only be used to load objects into memory, not to make the PC jump to some new point. In contrast, the any% TAS (or GEG TAS) is allowed to do whatever it wants, so it makes the PC jump to a spot in code that will let us reach the credits. Basically, the central issue is this: TASes of the form "Any% No X" typically require the TASer to beat the game as fast as possible without using some much faster glitch or trick. For example, Ocarina Of Time "Any% No Wrong Warp" tried to beat Ocarina Of Time as fast as possible without using the wrong warp glitch. The 2P Warps TAS has essentially been the TAS "Any% No Game-End Glitch", since this was previously the fastest way to beat the game without jumping to the credits. However, if both the any% TAS and a non-any% TAS use a PC jump to change execution, with any% going to the credits and non-any% going only 2 levels forward, would this be considered an arbitrary distinction that should prevent this glitch from being allowed? Returning to the example of Ocarina Of Time for a moment, an ACE exploit was found in OOT last year that let users warp directly to the credits. For this reason, an Any% TAS was made of OOT which uses ACE. However, TASes of OOT on this site are not allowed to use ACE to, for example, arbitrarily give link all items and make him an adult, and then have him beat all adult temples and then ganondorf. This category would be considered to arbitrarily allow a glitch but not use it in one spot where time could be saved in order to make a different category, which would make it too similar to Any% to qualify as a seperate category (so it would only be acceptable as a playaround). Based on all of this, this leaves one final question: Should the current Battletoads 2P Warps TAS be allowed to execute a jump to the warp portal code in memory? I look forward to getting feedback from this, and hearing what you all think :) Be sure to post whether or not you think a PC jump to skip level 4 should be allowed in the Battletoads 2P Warps TAS down below!
Post subject: One More Thing...
Lobsterzelda
He/Him
Skilled player (1256)
Joined: 3/17/2019
Posts: 282
Oh btw, one more thing: The new TAS WIP contains a faster level 5 by voiding out of the level faster. This saves about 20-something frames over the currently-published 2P Warpless category, so this new level 5 strategy will be useful for anyone who wants to obsolete the current movie.
Challenger
He/Him
Skilled player (1687)
Joined: 2/23/2016
Posts: 1061
Very insane discovery. Finally we can see both skips on any%! The new TAS probably will be NES TAS of 2020.
My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.
Lobsterzelda
He/Him
Skilled player (1256)
Joined: 3/17/2019
Posts: 282
Challenger wrote:
Very insane discovery. Finally we can see both skips on any%!
Just to clarify, this trick would be used (if allowed) in the 2P Warps TAS, not in the any% TAS. Although I may be misinterpreting what you're saying.
Post subject: Division of glitches (or should I say a classification?)
Koorvex
He/Him
Joined: 8/1/2020
Posts: 3
Location: Warsaw
Hi there! I'm new here so please (if you don't mind), I want you to approach to all of my content in a friendlier manner (just in case of any hater). First thing first, I wanna regard to Lobsterzelda question which is:
Lobsterzelda wrote:
... Should the current Battletoads 2P Warps TAS be allowed to execute a jump to the warp portal code in memory? ...
I know that I don't have a right to this but for me is acceptable with a condition which is: Any illegal pc instructions and executions are acceptable in the meaning of our target (which is a warp to level 5 in this case) This is probably debatable because is using "deep glitch" to reach our destination and you are forced to create new some kind division of glitches? (ain't that right?) In other hand we have a sample where is existence of overflowing object counter pointer (as Zlomus underline it in his notes, it is a possibility). This point of view should be fully legal in the meaning of TAS law. Version with double level warp is pretty exiting, because is useless to any of TAS-es (I guess there is no classification for that TAS -> and never 'll be). This PJ Glitch (as Zlomus callin' it) is a part of big deal that probably I'll never understand but it's really exiting to hear that (btw what's about the movie, any suggestions?). And the last thing, do you have any questions about all of this? Best regards from me to you dudes!
Vulkan vs. DX who'll be a winner?
Post subject: Updated Idea For Spawning The Warp Portal
Lobsterzelda
He/Him
Skilled player (1256)
Joined: 3/17/2019
Posts: 282
Actually, after taking a closer look at the memory values, I got another idea for a way to spawn the actual warp portal object. Address 0X0C contains a frame counter that increments by 1 every 2 frames, and resets to 0 when you die. 0X0D contains the number of the level you're on, which in the case of level 3 is 3. If 0X0B (which is a frame counter that increments by 1 every frame and resets to 0 when you die) is equal to 255 and the object pointer is pointing to 0X0B, then the object pointer will interpret 0X0C-0X0D as being the 2 byte address of the next spot to read objects from. Thus, the game sets the object pointer to this value + the object size (11 bytes). This sets the address to 0X3FF + 0X0B = 0X40A. If the value in 0X40A is 0 (which is possible, since 0X40A is the low x-coordinate of some object, which can also be manipulated beforehand), then the object pointer increments by 0X0B again to 0X415. 0X415 is the address of the high y-position byte of the 5th object in memory. The next 8 memory addresses after this represent the high y-positions of the 6th through 13th objects in memory. When the object pointer is increasing, it can be "held still" by holding down a certain button combination on frames when the pointer points to address 0X2C (which also doesn't load any new objects). Thus, we can hold the object pointer until the frame counter hits a desired point, then press all buttons on player 2's controller to reset the object pointer back to 0, and then 0X0B will be used to load the desired value. If we don't want 0X0B to be used but instead want to reset the object pointer to 0 (so that we can load more objects), then we can wait until 0X0B contains an invalid ID value, which means that on the frame after a new object is written from 0X0B's value, the object will be deleted again. Furthermore, when the object pointer hits 0X21, the high y-byte of the object that loads is based on the value of RNG address number 2, which is fully controllable with user input! Thus, we arrive at a unified strategy for how to spawn the warp portal: we keep holding the object pointer still until 0X0B contains an invalid ID, then we loop back around, load an object with the desired high y-byte value, and repeat until we have all the objects in place that we want. Then, we wait until 0X0C and 0C0D form the 2 byte value address of 0X40A, whose value we manipulate to be 0 when spawning objects. The frame counter then jumps to address 0X415, and loads the object with the properties of the 9 high y-position parameters that we set, which causes a warp portal to spawn right on top of the toad, which takes us to the next level! Of course, if only things could be so simple... There are still roadblocks that make this theory difficult to achieve in practice. Namely, 0X21 contains temporary values from calculations, and on most frames is set equal to 0. If 0X21 is equal to 0 when the object pointer is looking at it, then no object will be loaded , and the object pointer instead skips to the next value (which is 0X2C). One idea I have to fix this is based on the observation that when a toad dies by voiding out in level 3, it creates a series of ball objects that "bounce away" from where the toad died. When this object is loaded, it tends to make the value in 0X21 alternate between 5 and 0 every other frame. Thus, by loading an object with the ID of the bubble, maybe we could then make 0X21 be non-zero. However, doing this would block the object spot where we need to set one of the object values for later manipulation, so this might not be a good idea (unless there's a way to spawn a bubble object which also has the desired high y-byte of 0X22). There may also be ways to manipulate this value without loading any objects at all, which could be a promising alternative. However, this isn't an easy task. You can try every combination of buttons and movements possible, but most of the time, there's just no way to get this address to equal something else... The pieces are almost coming together, but they need a little more work. Does anyone have any ideas for strategies I could try going forwards to put this all together into a working strategy?
Post subject: There is Helper Tool For Spawning The Warp Portal
Koorvex
He/Him
Joined: 8/1/2020
Posts: 3
Location: Warsaw
Lobsterzelda wrote:
... Does anyone have any ideas for strategies I could try going forwards to put this all together into a working strategy?
I have an idea! If you'll look inside Zlomus pack there is a lua script that could be very useful in this case. Only one thing you have to do is a change the searchMemory to true. Then you'll be able to see all possible cases where the warp could be spawned (this maybe useful to find other strategies too). But what's about adding new rule to your run and do it in Zlomus way? This would be legal too in the meaning of TAS law, because we just added new rule and done it in this way for example: We declare that our run must comply all of this rules: *Our run can use warp portals, *Our run can use game glitches, *Our run cannot game end until it reach Armageddon level and Dark Queen wasn't beaten in battle. These 3 conditions were met in this run, because there is no game end glitch here. Extra fourth rule which could be "Any illegal pc instructions and executions are acceptable in the meaning of our target" (as I introduced before), is givin' to us information what kind a glitches we could use to make our run following the rules. What do you think about this?
Vulkan vs. DX who'll be a winner?
Post subject: Re: Battletoads 2P Warp from Level 3 to 5 Found!
Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
Lobsterzelda wrote:
Much like in the 2P warps TAS, we start off by activating the checkpoint glitch in level 3. This time, however, we make it so that an object loads which has a corrupted function pointer. Thus, when the game tries to follow this pointer, the PC gets set to some invalid instruction left near the end of the ROM. From here, the PC keeps executing invalid instructions that do nothing except advance to the next instruction. When the PC gets high enough, it jumps back to the beggining of the code in the ROM, which happens to be the start of the function that loads the end cutscene. As a result, the game ends, and Battletoads is beaten in a short 2 minutes without ever fighting the dark queen!
PC jumps to open bus, which is near the end of NES RAM, not ROM. Open bus means whatever was last on the data bus of the device repeats forever, and the CPU interprets that as code to execute. Most of the time there's nothing special, so it keeps rolling forward until it reaches ROM: $8000. At the beginning of ROM there's code that decides whether it should execute continue or game end, depending on a certain flag. That flag is player lives IIRC, and it gets corrupted by spawning an object with negative ID, so its attributes are written by index, which is now negative, corrupting memory above object slots.
Koorvex wrote:
In other hand we have a sample where is existence of overflowing object counter pointer (as Zlomus underline it in his notes, it is a possibility).
I should also explain that what Zlomus mentions as ObjectCounter is in fact level config pointer. Object counter is a different thing that only corrupts attibutes like the stick in level 4, most of the time it only corrupts sprites. Regarding legality. If you can make the PC jump to arbitrary locations, that should be used in any% if it makes it faster, possibly in a playaround too, but it's banned from other branches, because there ACE would be considered sub-optimal and arbitrarily limited. If you don't use techniques that allow PC to jump to arbitrary locations, then you can corrupt memory all you want in non-any% branches.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Post subject: Re: Battletoads 2P Warp from Level 3 to 5 Found!
Koorvex
He/Him
Joined: 8/1/2020
Posts: 3
Location: Warsaw
feos wrote:
... I should also explain that what Zlomus mentions as ObjectCounter is in fact level config pointer. Object counter is a different thing that only corrupts attibutes like the stick in level 4, most of the time it only corrupts sprites. ...
I thought that mechanism what's creating objects and make counts which slot should be used to spawn object it was called ObjectCounter (that's probably my misinterpretation - nevermind). Thanks for correcting this (probably it should be called correctly level object counter) for me is really important information.
feos wrote:
... Regarding legality. If you can make the PC jump to arbitrary locations, that should be used in any% if it makes it faster, possibly in a playaround too, but it's banned from other branches, because there ACE would be considered sub-optimal and arbitrarily limited. If you don't use techniques that allow PC to jump to arbitrary locations, then you can corrupt memory all you want in non-any% branches.
Summarizing all of this. In non-any% branches (whatever this means) I could use glitch but this glitch has to be controlled, because some objects can corrupt pc pointers which is illegal in this case, isn't it?
Vulkan vs. DX who'll be a winner?
Challenger
He/Him
Skilled player (1687)
Joined: 2/23/2016
Posts: 1061
Lobsterzelda wrote:
Challenger wrote:
Very insane discovery. Finally we can see both skips on any%!
Just to clarify, this trick would be used (if allowed) in the 2P Warps TAS, not in the any% TAS. Although I may be misinterpreting what you're saying.
Yeah I forgot to explain better what I was saying, because during years, I considered 2p warps TAS as any%.
My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
Level config is a list of objects to spawn in a level when the camera reaches the next position. You don't need to count slots to spawn objects, they just occupy the lowest free slot. It's a pointer because it points to the current ROM location to read object descriptors from. What the actual object counter does it iterates through objects from min slot to max, and on the next frame from max to min, to make their sprites blink when there's too many of them.
Challenger wrote:
Yeah I forgot to explain better what I was saying, because during years, I considered 2p warps TAS as any%.
http://tasvideos.org/FastestCompletion.html
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
1 2
19 20 21