Submission Text Full Submission Page

A space explorer and a cranky crystal hungry octopus: this is Nebs 'n Debs!

Nebs 'n Debs is a new (released in 2019) game for the original Nintendo Entertainment System. Run, jump, and dash your way through 12 levels as you search for the missing parts of Debs's ship to escape the hostile alien planet Vespasian 7MV!
Nebs 'n Debs started as a 2016 NESDEV Competition entry. That demo version of the game won 2nd place and is included on the Action 53 Volume 3 cartridge. Since then, Dullahan Software's Chris Cacciatore and friends have developed the full game with updated graphics, physics, and more music.
  • Emulator used: FCEUX 2.2.3 (default settings)
  • Aims for fastest completion (any%)
  • Deathless
  • Completes a harder second loop

General information

Hello! I'm juef and this is my fourth TAS, and the first of Nebs N' Debs. The ending is reached in 37585 frames. The very impressive current world record by Rayquaza911 only completes the first loop of the game, which is done in about 16 seconds less in this TAS.
Please note that the rerecord count isn't exactly accurate, as the second loop is mostly copied/pasted from the first loop, with some changes due to differently initialized memory and faster enemy speed, notably.

Tricks and TASing notes

  • If A is held appropriately, Nebs conserves her vertical momentum after a dash. This is used to reach places that can't be reached otherwise and/or to have her dash recharged at a better place.
  • Sometimes, you can jump right after dash. This is used in the same ways as the above trick.
  • Potions increase the dash length, and you can have up to two. Since dashing is faster, more potions is better: it's actually only worth dashing when you have at least one potion (which is thankfully the case very shortly into the first level).
  • Sometimes, one route forces the player to interrupt a dash (because of a wall, for example), making it slower than another seemingly less direct route. For example, in the first level, going through the rock might seem faster than going over the level for a while, but the dashes don't "fit" as well for the rest of the level to actually make it faster. This is the kind of thing that pretty much had to be tried and measured.
  • When the player is blue, the dash is actually recharged for a couple of frames before she becomes pink again.
  • (Not so) fun fact: you can outrun the drone bosses if you dash too much: the screen will simply scroll over it, and it will disappear forever, essentially softlocking the game. It is possible to only despawn the ship piece that way, but then beating the boss will also softlock the game. Therefore, we have to delay some dashes in order to finish the level.
  • Being close enough to certain objects / tiles can give your dash ability back without you touching the ground. This is used many times, for instance in Level 5, where the dash is ended a bit prematurely so that this trick is used with the trampoline plant. That, plus the jump-after-dash, saved over half a second from simply bouncing off the plant.
  • It is often faster to walk to the sign at the end of a level and activate a dash for one frame to spin it. However, if the distance between the player and the sign is great enough, a full dash can be worth it.
  • You don't have to touch the mines for them to go off: just being close enough triggers them. Since their explosion will damage the player even when dashing, in the first level with mines, it is faster to make a short dash over it rather than trigger it and wait for the explosion to be over.
  • When the last ship piece "teleports" between the two drones, getting to close to the edge of the screen before the 2nd drone starts moving will prevent the screen from scrolling, and will therefore softlock the game.
  • The ending is a bit different once you beat the game on the 2nd loop. Notably, the timer and enemies are faster, 1ups are downgraded, and some more little differences.

Possible improvements

Should improvements come up (and I hope they will), I suspect they will mostly be from movement optimization and different in-level routing. There is definitely more studying to be done, notably about subpixel positions and speeds. For example, I know the first level can be finished 2 frames faster by making a 1-frame fash over the sign, but for some reason, it makes things not go as well in the second level and more than two frames are lost.

Acknowledgements

Thanks to Chris Cacciatore for the great game, and Rayquaza911 (current WR holder) for the great speedrun!

Suggested screenshots (frames 14790 and 9258):

EDIT

I've just been informed that there is a glitch allowing to maintain dash speed in certain conditions (I don't know which ones exactly yet). I will definitely investigate and redo the TAS if the findings are worth it, but in the meantime, I suppose I can leave this submission open?

ThunderAxe31: Judging.
ThunderAxe31: The very first thing that got my attention was the fact that the RTA WR is just 16 seconds slower, which is a relatively small difference in my opinion. So I took my time comparing the strategies used in this submission and in that RTA run, and I noticed that there are many different routes used between the two. Then I tried to TAS the first level myself, which resulted 44 frames faster (movie file here, no need to credit).
Another problem is the fact that the speed glitch has been not used. While it isn't clear about what causes this glitch and why it can't be used for all enemies, I also have to note that there are many spots in the game where it can be used for certain. Apparently, it seems that the glitch can be reproduced if you have two Dash Potions and you stop the dash while killing the second enemy in a row.
This movie isn't very bad, but it lacks the usage of some known strategies in many places through the run, and it would require to redo everything from scratch in order to implement these. Thus, I have to reject this submission for suboptimality. Better luck next time!


TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15628
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #6265: juef's NES Nebs 'n Debs in 10:25.39
EZGames69
He/They
Publisher, Reviewer, Expert player (4468)
Joined: 5/29/2017
Posts: 2765
This feels very reminiscent of celeste.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
juef
He/Him
Player (155)
Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 208
Location: Québec, Canada
I've just been informed that there is a glitch allowing to maintain dash speed in certain conditions (I don't know which ones exactly yet). I will definitely investigate and redo the TAS if the findings are worth it, but in the meantime, I suppose I can leave this submission open?
Post subject: Re: #6265: juef's NES Nebs 'n Debs in 10:25.39
fsvgm777
She/Her
Senior Publisher, Player (226)
Joined: 5/28/2009
Posts: 1215
Location: Luxembourg
TASVideoAgent wrote:
Nebs 'n Debs is a new (released in 2019) game for the original Nintendo Entertainment System.
Except it's only released for those who actually backed the game, with the devs promising a general release "later this month". So as of now, nobody can verify this TAS. Maybe it'll be released to the public in a few days (since they're going to have a new update in 2 days as of this writing)? Who knows.
Steam Community page - Bluesky profile Oh, I'm just a concerned observer.
fsvgm777
She/Her
Senior Publisher, Player (226)
Joined: 5/28/2009
Posts: 1215
Location: Luxembourg
The devs posted an update on their Kickstarter page and reveal that it's going to be released to the general public on 2019-3-1, so this TAS can be verified at that moment.
Steam Community page - Bluesky profile Oh, I'm just a concerned observer.
fsvgm777
She/Her
Senior Publisher, Player (226)
Joined: 5/28/2009
Posts: 1215
Location: Luxembourg
Post subject: Re: #6265: juef's NES Nebs 'n Debs in 10:25.39
Editor, Reviewer, Skilled player (1361)
Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1646
Location: Italy
TASVideoAgent wrote:
I've just been informed that there is a glitch allowing to maintain dash speed in certain conditions (I don't know which ones exactly yet). I will definitely investigate and redo the TAS if the findings are worth it, but in the meantime, I suppose I can leave this submission open?
juef, do you have any update about this?
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
juef
He/Him
Player (155)
Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 208
Location: Québec, Canada
I have spent some time looking at this, and while I have been able to trigger the glitch many times, I have yet to understand how to do it reliably. Some enemies, like the very first enemy of the very first level, I have not been able to trigger the glitch with. It is a shame, and I will try harder, because everytime it is done, it saves a lot of time. I did find some suspicious memory addresses, but I have not been able to understand their meaning so far. If anybody feels like helping, it may not actually be that hard...
Editor, Reviewer, Skilled player (1361)
Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1646
Location: Italy
I'd like to help with the researches. Please, share one or more movies in which you perform the glitch in there: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/my#uploadfile
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
juef
He/Him
Player (155)
Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 208
Location: Québec, Canada
Here you go! Some notes are included. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/53836533459305982 Thank you for your time!
MESHUGGAH
Other
Skilled player (1920)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1353
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
edit3: These are notes for the superspeed glitch and not to this movie! - As far as I see the game source code is not publicly released (the forum thread would be this but Internal Server Error 500... https://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=14503&start=45 ). - "Syncs" (should remove 1 frame in the beginning?) in BizHawk 2.3.1 as well If you throw some memory addresses or at least regions at me (position and state), I will investigate this. edit 1+2 all relevant notes about this glitch: - I see the forum thread on nesdev OP shows his previous bugs fixed, listing "* Fixed issue where dash counters would sometimes get out of sync with Deb's actual dash-ability.". - On page 3 * Players can control the duration of dash at a gradient of 8 px as long as they are not colliding with anything. * If a full dash can not be executed, a smaller dash (8 px) is attempted, and so on. * Dashing does not reset the player's ability to jump (although I may change that later). * The dash speed is 4 px a frame. At first I had it at 8 px, which feels pretty fun, but I the ability for more fine control is probably more important. - On page 6: * As some of you guessed there was too much work being done during VBLANK.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
juef
He/Him
Player (155)
Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 208
Location: Québec, Canada
Here's the content of my current RAM watch list. I mostly found them by searching for differences regarding speeds ang glitched/non-glitched states, but I'm not even sure they're related to the glitch or to each other.
6
00000	00C9	b	s	0	Glitch1
00001	00CA	b	s	0	Glitch2
00002	00CB	b	s	0	Glitch3
00003	03B5	b	s	0	Glitch4
00004	03F1	b	s	0	Glitch5
00005	03F2	b	s	0	Glitch6
MESHUGGAH
Other
Skilled player (1920)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1353
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
Work in progress notes for superspeed glitch, not 100% sure so far about these! 0x303~0x305 p1 input processing (probably used for button being held / autofiring) 0x303 is always the input you press last frame. - frame n: 0x305 = button difference - frame n+1: 0x304 = store 0x305 0x3EA y gravity 0x4AE y speed 0x3B1 camera x pos 0x3B2 camera x speed 0x403 countdown after last B button 0x404 non dash frames elapsed, rolls over at 40 == 0 0x4D8 dash counter up to 2 (max dash dependent) minimal dashing: pressing B every 11th frame (n, n+11, n+22)
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Skilled player (1920)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1353
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
Can I request an encode of juef's usermovie (2 posts above me)? Just to be sure I understood "superspeed" glitch.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
juef
He/Him
Player (155)
Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 208
Location: Québec, Canada
https://youtu.be/DPc92IOxkK4 Happens around 0:56 and 0:58
TASVideosGrue
They/Them
Joined: 10/1/2008
Posts: 2792
Location: The dark corners of the TASVideos server
om, nom, nom... sweet!
juef
He/Him
Player (155)
Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 208
Location: Québec, Canada
Thank you for the detailed rejection notes! I am sad to see that my movie isn't as good as I thought it was, but hopefully my attempt will encourage someone with more experience to pick the game up sometime and give it a proper TAS treatment.