This topic is for the purpose of discussing #9104: CoolKirby, YoungJ1997lol, Alyosha & SuperSqank's GBA Madagascar in 27:56.75

Hi. I am the current RTA WR holder in this game. I highly appreciate you console verifying the TAS, it is pretty neat to see. What I would like to say though is that there is more stuff which has been found in this game since the original TAS and a TAS could definitely go a fair bit lower. This is mainly due to new exploits which lead to new skips in some levels. I'll link the current WR and I'll explain some of the stuff. You can see the RTA WR as a reference to the strats I explain. Link to video Double jump storage - In the TAS, it was known that if you landed on a bounce pad as Alex or Melman, you can switch characters and the next time you switch to Alex/Melman while jumping as another character, you can double jump with them. This could also give you a triple jump. However, you can also get this double jump storage by either jumping or falling off an edge with Alex/Melman. This can save time in various places although a TAS would have to experiment thoroughly to make the most out of it. I'll be mentioning some of the main double/triple jump storage strats in this thread but it can definitely be utilised in more areas. Melman's double jump - I'm not certain if this was known in the TAS but if you do Melman's double jump while not holding a direction, you will double jump with full speed. This is especially useful when jumping with Marty and then using double jump storage with Melman. Fast Fall - if you are about to run off an edge and you switch to a character with a skinnier collision box, you will drop off that ledge faster. This is most applicable when switching from Marty to Alex. This can be utilised in a few areas. The main areas I can think of are at the end of Jungle Dub and at the beginning of Foosa Lair section 3. Lemur Liberation - In section 1 at the beginning, you can use a triple jump to get up to the 3rd Lemur. You collect the first lemur by jumping as Alex and then you run off the platform as Melman. I am not 100% certain if this route is faster but it is worth looking into. There might also be a faster way to do the 8-11 Lemur section with Alex and the end section could maybe be done faster with proper double/triple jump storage. In section 2, you can get to the 18th Lemur faster. Instead of running to the branch on the right and then slowly jumping back, you can set up triple jump storage, then jump with Marty before reaching the Foosa and then triple jump up to the 18th Lemur/the branch. At the beginning of section 3, you can get double jump storage with Melman, double jump with Alex and then triple jump as Melman to get to the top and collect a Lemur. You can then run through the next part and quickly back track in the cave to get all the Lemurs. This is a fair bit faster than crawling through the cave and then backtracking to the upper Lemurs. Double jump storage could also potentially save time in other areas in this level. Wild World - At the beginning of section 2, instead of doing the slow upwards climb, you can run through the cave, setup up triple jump storage and then triple jump onto the top of the next cave. Later on, instead of using Melman to open up the floor, you can get double jump storage with Melman and then double jump with Alex and then triple jump with Melman to the top. Island Getaway - I think this level could benefit from more efficient double jump storage but I don't have a lot to say otherwise. Alex's Claws - After saving the last Lemur, you do not have to go to the left wall in order to climb up. You can double jump up to the rightside wall and at the peak of your double jump, pause and unpause. If you do this correctly, you will grab onto the wall, removing the need to backtrack to the left wall. Foosa Lair - I believe optimising this level quickly would mainly involve utilising double jump storage in section 3. You could maybe use the pause climb trick to optimise the level as well. Foosa Arena - There is no way that resetting the level 5 times is optimal. I have gotten 38 IGT without the need for any resetting. I highly believe that there must be a more optimal way to manipulate the RNG in this level. CoolKirby/JCool stated that they could get as low as a 45 IGT in this level. This level is absolutely worth looking into. And those are all the main notes I have. I highly appreciate you console verifying the run and wanting to improve the run. This is a neat game and as an RTA runner who knows that this game can go lower, I highly appreciate someone wanting to improve the TAS. With that being said however, there is definitely more work which could be done with this run. The improvements are a start but there are a lot more which can be implemented. I can absolutely see a lower time than the original TAS being possible with the emulation timeloss.

^ Thanks for the detailed comments. Are you interested in improving the TAS? This run is short and sync friendly enough that it could be improved relatively easily so I don't mind just cancelling it.

I’m cool with looking at it. I was actually interested in TASing the game myself, willing to remake the whole thing. I will see what I can do and I will look into sending you an improved movie when I’m done. Could you provide a BK2 or TASPROJ file for the run?

I’m cool with looking at it. I was actually interested in TASing the game myself, willing to remake the whole thing. I will see what I can do and I will look into sending you an improved movie when I’m done. Could you provide a BK2 or TASPROJ file for the run?

Here is a bk2 but note that it will desync around frame 8000 due to incorrect lag emulation in mGBA. I can always resync a final movie back to GBAHawk again later anyway for console verification. https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638528620588612122

ty. I'll have a look at the run.

I’m cool with looking at it. I was actually interested in TASing the game myself, willing to remake the whole thing. I will see what I can do and I will look into sending you an improved movie when I’m done. Could you provide a BK2 or TASPROJ file for the run?

You may as well use GBAHawk, it's a fork of BizHawk and has the same TAStudio, and a more accurate GBA core.

^ Thanks for the detailed comments. Are you interested in improving the TAS? This run is short and sync friendly enough that it could be improved relatively easily so I don't mind just cancelling it.

I have made an updated TAS. https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638530054286630870 It saves approximately 21-22 seconds compared to Alyosha's update. I think it should be a sub 28 when resynced to GBAHawk but even if it isn't, it should be very close. The main time saves come from much heavier use of double/triple jump storage along with not having to reset in the final level. There are various other optimisations and time saves as well. The final level should end at 1:38 IGT. For reference, I'll also put up a video link to the run. Link to video

I have made an updated TAS. https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638530054286630870 It saves approximately 21-22 seconds compared to Alyosha's update. I think it should be a sub 28 when resynced to GBAHawk but even if it isn't, it should be very close. The main time saves come from much heavier use of double/triple jump storage along with not having to reset in the final level. There are various other optimisations and time saves as well. The final level should end at 1:38 IGT. For reference, I'll also put up a video link to the run. Link to video

That was fast, nice work! Resyncing is not entirely successful though. I can get 10 foosas at the dance part, but 30 frames slower since their positions aren't optimal. More important though the arena doesn't sync at all and I can't seem to manipulate it? How do you manipulate that part besides the reset method in the original? If I just resync it as is it will be significantly slower. It's kind of surprising the arena doesn't work even though it worked when resyncing from the original run on vba. Here is what I have: *removed* EDIT: The arena also desyncs on console, so definitely needs to be redone.

Actually with 2 reset manipulations i get an even better fight than the mgba version! Sop i think I'll go with that one. Will post file once i verify it. EDIT: new file: *supercded see below* Please replace the movie file with this one. updating temp encode, console verified

Actually with 2 reset manipulations i get an even better fight than the mgba version! Sop i think I'll go with that one. Will post file once i verify it. EDIT: new file: https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638530569368963240 Please replace the movie file with this one. updating temp encode, console verified

Oh wow, nice. That is a lot faster. I guess I will mention that I did actually find some time saves in the beach section of Island Getaway which saved about 14 frames although it completely messed up the RNG in the final boss and I couldn’t find a way to salvage it. I also regret my rating for the run now.

Good work, both of you, and thanks for keeping YoungJ and I on as coauthors! SuperSqank, thanks for sharing your knowledge and improving the run. Alyosha, thanks for resyncing and improving, and congrats on achieving sub 28! I saved 177 more frames using the trick I noted in the published run's submission text: kicking the last gray lemur (or two, if they're close enough together) to make it run instead of walk to the right. Because the level ends when the 20th lemur reaches the right side of the screen, this saves almost 3 seconds. Foosa Arena is now a 0:50 IGT, and it's likely it can go lower with better RNG manipulation in the future. I used GBAHawk so it's ready to console verify and have a judge replace this submission, if there are no more improvements.

CoolKirby/JCool stated that they could get as low as a 45 IGT in this level.

JCool and I are different people. Unless he also said that, which would be a funny coincidence.

Good work, both of you, and thanks for keeping YoungJ and I on as coauthors! SuperSqank, thanks for sharing your knowledge and improving the run. Alyosha, thanks for resyncing and improving, and congrats on achieving sub 28! I saved 177 more frames using the trick I noted in the published run's submission text: kicking the last gray lemur (or two, if they're close enough together) to make it run instead of walk to the right. Because the level ends when the 20th lemur reaches the right side of the screen, this saves almost 3 seconds. Foosa Arena is now a 0:50 IGT, and it's likely it can go lower with better RNG manipulation in the future. I used GBAHawk so it's ready to console verify and have a judge replace this submission, if there are no more improvements.

CoolKirby/JCool stated that they could get as low as a 45 IGT in this level.

JCool and I are different people. Unless he also said that, which would be a funny coincidence.

Awesome to see you come back and further improve the TAS. You and YoungJ did a really good job with the original TAS and it helped us formulate the RTA run for this game as well. This game has a really neat speedrun and you guys truly pioneered the run. I did know you guys were separate people but I messed up writing your names in my post. That is my fault, apologies. Thank you for returning and pushing this game even further. 50 IGT on the final level is super cool to see. Ideally, we would be able to get that RNG or better in the final level without resetting and without losing significant time elsewhere in the run but the RNG in Final Battle is definitely strange. I couldn't figure out how it works. It is possible to save more time earlier in the run but it could mess up the RNG on Final Battle. It is definitely an odd level to say the least.

Ok console verified again with CoolKirby's improvements. CoolKirby's file can be used as the new submission file.

You and YoungJ did a really good job with the original TAS and it helped us formulate the RTA run for this game as well. This game has a really neat speedrun and you guys truly pioneered the run. ... Thank you for returning and pushing this game even further.

Wow, thanks for saying that! It worked out that we made the TAS back when SRC was just getting started. I'm glad our efforts brought you all together for a common goal.

RNG in Final Battle is definitely strange. I couldn't figure out how it works. It is possible to save more time earlier in the run but it could mess up the RNG on Final Battle.

I don't understand it either. It's good you found that saving frames as late as Island Getaway affects it, as the right frame/input there could give us a faster Final/Arena too, but it's just trial and error for now.

I seem to be unable to add SuperSqank as an author, when I click on the '+' nothing happens, can a judge please do so?

This sounds like a site bug. It might be worth reporting on GitHub. Also thanks for your work on GBAHawk; this is the GBA game I most wanted to see console verified, and you made it possible along with Operation Penguin.

This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [6004] GBA Madagascar by CoolKirby, YoungJ1997lol, Alyosha & SuperSqank in 27:56.75