Aha! A test to TASVideos members and judges, will they dismiss the high quality product because of their so called "Da Rulez" or will they admit this is not even a record seeking TAS and validity of the savefile is irrelevant to a TAS that isn't breaking a record or claiming to be the best execution of a concept?
Truly a sight to see.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto.
TAS i'm interested:
Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS?
i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Aha! A test to TASVideos members and judges, will they dismiss the high quality product because of their so called "Da Rulez" or will they admit this is not even a record seeking TAS and validity of the savefile is irrelevant to a TAS that isn't breaking a record or claiming to be the best execution of a concept?
Truly a sight to see.
Your not so subtle jabs at TASVideos and its staff are not appreciated. The purpose of this thread is to discuss the quality and entertainment of the submission, as well as to provide constructive feedback of that submission. It's not for you to air your grievances of the site and to cast doubt on the capabilities the staff.
Aha! A test to TASVideos members and judges, will they dismiss the high quality product because of their so called "Da Rulez" or will they admit this is not even a record seeking TAS and validity of the savefile is irrelevant to a TAS that isn't breaking a record or claiming to be the best execution of a concept?
Truly a sight to see.
Your not so subtle jabs at TASVideos and its staff are not appreciated. The purpose of this thread is to discuss the quality and entertainment of the submission, as well as to provide constructive feedback of that submission. It's not for you to air your grievances of the site and to cast doubt on the capabilities the staff.
I already praised the staff publicly when i did a participation on the stream for anime speedruns festival, but here i felt the need to reinforce the current rule results as this run is the prime victim of the rules, so yeah, it's a relevant space to comment on the subject imo.
Also, you could take it like a joke, as it is. I don't even participate in the discord anymore, what else do you want from me? Do you want me to be completely silenced? Are you not available for criticism, only praise? When was the last time i've sent a message? I already excluded myself from being in touch with the site so "i can protect the staff from these grievances", I don't even remember my last interaction about this. It's not even an insult! Does that make me evil for not being agreeable? How can you be so sensitive? Am I only allowed to submit movies and shut the fuck up? Or the comment about this can only be made in the specific subsection of the site?
Whatever, I just wanted to point out the obvious problem and I did it.
EDIT: i'm adding this so it gets perfectly clear: NO ONE IS BEING INSULTED HERE, NO ONE IS BEING CALLED NAMES, I'M CRITICIZING A DECISION I BELIEVE IS WRONG AND SHOULD BE REVISITED, AND I'M SPECIFYING THAT IN THE EXACT MOMENT THE DECISION CAUSE ITS EFFECT. IF YOU DON'T WANNA REVISIT IT, FINE BUT I DESERVE THE SPACE TO POINT IT OUT. It's this exact form of response that made me not participate anymore.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto.
TAS i'm interested:
Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS?
i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Also, you could take it like a joke, as it is. I don't even participate in the discord anymore, what else do you want from me? Do you want me to be completely silenced? Are you not available for criticism, only praise? When was the last time i've sent a message? I already excluded myself from being in touch with the site so "i can protect the staff from these grievances", I don't even remember my last interaction about this. It's not even an insult! Does that make me evil for not being agreeable? How can you be so sensitive? Am I only allowed to submit movies and shut the fuck up? Or the comment about this can only be made in the specific subsection of the site?
We want you to follow a standard of basic human decency when participating in a discussion. This includes not being passive-aggressive toward staff if you happen to disagree with them on any point, and not using false dichotomies and other bogus rhetorical tricks.
You also can't pretend it's a joke and then go on elaborating in the same post how emotionally invested you are in this argument. The attachment you hold to this debate is truly no joke, and the way you realize it in your posts is by being an ass. It's not "evil" but it is annoying because you're preempting any potential discussion with poorly veiled hostility, which automatically makes the staff less likely to engage with you at all, let alone try to compromise, which feeds your self-fulfilling prophecy. I don't know if you even realize that what you're doing is not helping your cause at all, and is instead making it worse, but you do seem comfortable in the martyr role. There's nobody but yourself to blame for everyone considering arguing with you to be a waste of time.
Again, once and for all: we don't silence opinions—we silence people who persistently choose to be disruptive with their opinions. It's completely within your power to change how you choose to present them. If you wish to die on the hill of being an ass, I can help any time.
Also, you could take it like a joke, as it is. I don't even participate in the discord anymore, what else do you want from me? Do you want me to be completely silenced? Are you not available for criticism, only praise? When was the last time i've sent a message? I already excluded myself from being in touch with the site so "i can protect the staff from these grievances", I don't even remember my last interaction about this. It's not even an insult! Does that make me evil for not being agreeable? How can you be so sensitive? Am I only allowed to submit movies and shut the fuck up? Or the comment about this can only be made in the specific subsection of the site?
We want you to follow a standard of basic human decency when participating in a discussion. This includes not being passive-aggressive toward staff if you happen to disagree with them on any point, and not using false dichotomies and other bogus rhetorical tricks.
You also can't pretend it's a joke and then go on elaborating in the same post how emotionally invested you are in this argument. The attachment you hold to this debate is truly no joke, and the way you realize it in your posts is by being an ass. It's not "evil" but it is annoying because you're preempting any potential discussion with poorly veiled hostility, which automatically makes the staff less likely to engage with you at all, let alone try to compromise, which feeds your self-fulfilling prophecy. I don't know if you even realize that what you're doing is not helping your cause at all, and is instead making it worse, but you do seem comfortable in the martyr role. There's nobody but yourself to blame for everyone considering arguing with you to be a waste of time.
Again, once and for all: we don't silence opinions—we silence people who persistently choose to be disruptive with their opinions. It's completely within your power to change how you choose to present them. If you wish to die on the hill of being an ass, I can help any time.
There are no tricks, what tricks would be there? The rules won't allow the TAS, the run is interesting and the rules seems like it's not acceptable, i find it funny a good TAS can put the rules in question. That's it. No insults, i'm not being an "ass, i'm no martyr, i'm not claiming that. I'm also not responding the fact i believe ass would be an insult because i don't wanna get silenced. It does feel like silencing when you claim i can't bring the subject up in the moment its relevant. Would any of these claims be reasonable for you?
Even better, can you make any examples of how this could be brought up in a way that isn't offensive? Is it only allowed in the original forum discussion for this subject?
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto.
TAS i'm interested:
Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS?
i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Even better, can you make any examples of how this could be brought up in a way that isn't offensive? Is it only allowed in the original forum discussion for this subject?
I imagine anything that doesn't include the phrase 'so called "Da Rulez"' would probably be a start.
Okay, since I brought it up, I guess it's on me to demonstrate.
Exhibit A
will they dismiss the high quality product because of their so called "Da Rulez" or will they admit this is not even a record seeking TAS and validity of the savefile is irrelevant to a TAS that isn't breaking a record or claiming to be the best execution of a concept
This fundamentally misrepresents what the verification movies are for. The reason we ask for it is precisely to ensure this is, indeed, a high quality product, i.e. it starts from a perfectly valid and reproducible game state. This is one of the tenets TASVideos has been originally based on—Bisqwit's motivation to create the site was mainly to ensure complete transparency. Movies are submitted as key input files and not as already-dumped videos for largely the same reason. Anyone could, in principle, take their own copy of the emulator, their own ROM, load the input file, and either arrive at the same result as the movies we publish, or examine the input, stop the movie playback, and continue playing or TASing from an arbitrary point in the run if they want to. Aside from helping get rid of "TASing is cheating" stigma, this whole process has been an incredible boon for unassisted speedrunners, glitch hunters, and newer generations of TASers themselves because, even if the games or runs themselves weren't well-documented, the full inputs were always there for them to study and build up on.
The way you're twisting this makes it look as if the current administration holds on to a antiquated rule to the detriment of the site. You're ignoring both the reason and nuance behind it because if you don't, your argument starts falling apart rapidly.
Exhibit B
I already praised the staff publicly when i did a participation on the stream for anime speedruns festival, but here i felt the need to reinforce the current rule results as this run is the prime victim of the rules, so yeah, it's a relevant space to comment on the subject imo.
There's so much to unpack here. I'm not sure why you think the staff needed your praise and I'm also not sure why you think this gives you some goodwill credit which you can spend attacking them down the line. I'm also not sure why you're calling this run a "victim" before any judgment has been made, or why you consider your initial post a "comment on the subject" in a "relevant space" when all you did was being dismissive of the imaginary ruling in advance. You weren't even discussing the rule in question. What is relevant about your comment? What solution does it offer? That's right, "nothing" and "none", respectively. You're just revving up the hate machine because you either don't want to make a point normally or can't handle it when things don't go your way. You didn't even offer some kind words to the author before you went on crucifying his submission and attacking the staff. No common courtesy whatsoever!
Exhibit C
Are you not available for criticism, only praise?
First, as I mentioned before, this is not criticism because you aren't even criticizing anything. You are not addressing the facts and reasons; you're mocking what you expect to be a foregone conclusion. This works out greatly for you because you're spinning this narrative of fighting the staff for righteous reasons, so you're making the first strike to ensure it gets their attention and it isn't amicable. And then you're suffering at the hands of these horrible people who just don't get it (no matter how hard you mock them!) and take action to "silence" your words of reason. This is your martyrdom and your self-fulfilling prophecy. Of course, this routine will always develop the same way every time; it's not designed to produce any other results to begin with.
Second, giving praise does not entitle you to anything and never will, so why is that even a question? Everyone is free to criticize staff decisions without having to praise them first (that's just stupid), but this needs to be done properly, and I and others have explained many times how to do it properly. Just make a search for any of your prior arguments with the staff, and it's going to be there somewhere.
Exhibit D
I don't even participate in the discord anymore, what else do you want from me?
And more misrepresentation! Nobody asked you to quit Discord—as an exemption or otherwise. We apply the same participation rules to everyone. They boil down to "be respectful and reasonable", and this applies to both the forums and the chat. The way you phrased this makes it sound as if we wanted you to start another beef with the staff in somebody else's submission comments and you reluctantly agreed and did your best, and we just keep demanding more. Except none of that is true; you just treated this as your right for whatever reason: a right to start the beef. It's not your right, and of course I don't want you to do that either here or on Discord, lmao.
Exhibit E
I already excluded myself from being in touch with the site so "i can protect the staff from these grievances"
Basic emotional manipulation. A variant of the perennial abuse classic: "You don't understand how kind I am: I only hit you half as hard as I did last week. I'm only doing this for your own good, why can't you be thankful?" You might be thinking you're doing the community a favor by "protecting" the staff from yourself but you should instead be focused on the source of those grievances which is—*drum roll*—also yourself! Consider not treating your presence as some sort of innate right because it obviously isn't. It's always been a privilege, and if you can't behave civilly, we will remove it.
As you can see, I haven't even made it halfway through your second post; there's just so much you think up, misrepresent, obfuscate, or omit all the time, and I don't have the entire evening to unpack it all given how much longer it takes for me to explain these things than for you to write them.
I've split this entire discussion off to keep the submission thread for discussing the submission itself, as it should've been. I'll let this discussion play out for a bit longer here in case anybody from the judges or administrators is willing to engage, but if the tone doesn't improve, be aware that it can be locked and grued at any point for serving no purpose other than for you to vent.
Okay, since I brought it up, I guess it's on me to demonstrate.
Exhibit A
will they dismiss the high quality product because of their so called "Da Rulez" or will they admit this is not even a record seeking TAS and validity of the savefile is irrelevant to a TAS that isn't breaking a record or claiming to be the best execution of a concept
This fundamentally misrepresents what the verification movies are for. The reason we ask for it is precisely to ensure this is, indeed, a high quality product, i.e. it starts from a perfectly valid and reproducible game state. This is one of the tenets TASVideos has been originally based on—Bisqwit's motivation to create the site was mainly to ensure complete transparency. Movies are submitted as key input files and not as already-dumped videos for largely the same reason. Anyone could, in principle, take their own copy of the emulator, their own ROM, load the input file, and either arrive at the same result as the movies we publish, or examine the input, stop the movie playback, and continue playing or TASing from an arbitrary point in the run if they want to. Aside from helping get rid of "TASing is cheating" stigma, this whole process has been an incredible boon for unassisted speedrunners, glitch hunters, and newer generations of TASers themselves because, even if the games or runs themselves weren't well-documented, the full inputs were always there for them to study and build up on.
The way you're twisting this makes it look as if the current administration holds on to a antiquated rule to the detriment of the site. You're ignoring both the reason and nuance behind it because if you don't, your argument starts falling apart rapidly.
Exhibit B
I already praised the staff publicly when i did a participation on the stream for anime speedruns festival, but here i felt the need to reinforce the current rule results as this run is the prime victim of the rules, so yeah, it's a relevant space to comment on the subject imo.
There's so much to unpack here. I'm not sure why you think the staff needed your praise and I'm also not sure why you think this gives you some goodwill credit which you can spend attacking them down the line. I'm also not sure why you're calling this run a "victim" before any judgment has been made, or why you consider your initial post a "comment on the subject" in a "relevant space" when all you did was being dismissive of the imaginary ruling in advance. You weren't even discussing the rule in question. What is relevant about your comment? What solution does it offer? That's right, "nothing" and "none", respectively. You're just revving up the hate machine because you either don't want to make a point normally or can't handle it when things don't go your way. You didn't even offer some kind words to the author before you went on crucifying his submission and attacking the staff. No common courtesy whatsoever!
Exhibit C
Are you not available for criticism, only praise?
First, as I mentioned before, this is not criticism because you aren't even criticizing anything. You are not addressing the facts and reasons; you're mocking what you expect to be a foregone conclusion. This works out greatly for you because you're spinning this narrative of fighting the staff for righteous reasons, so you're making the first strike to ensure it gets their attention and it isn't amicable, so you're suffering at the hands of these horrible people who just don't get it (no matter how hard you mock them!) and take action to "silence" your words of reason. This is your martyrdom and your self-fulfilling prophecy. Of course, this routine will develop the same way every time; it's not designed to produce any other results.
Second, giving praise does not entitle you to anything and never will, so why is that even a question? Everyone is free to criticize staff decisions without having to praise them first (that's just stupid), but this needs to be done properly, and I've explained many times how to do it properly. Just make a search for any of your prior arguments with the staff, and it's going to be there somewhere.
Exhibit D
I don't even participate in the discord anymore, what else do you want from me?
And more misrepresentation! Nobody asked you to quit Discord—as an exemption or otherwise. We apply the same participation rules to everyone. They boil down to "be respective and reasonable", and this applies to both the forums and the chat. The way you phrased this makes it sound as if we wanted you to start another beef with the staff in somebody else's submission comments and you reluctantly agreed and did your best, and we just keep demanding more. Except none of that is true; you just treated this as your right for whatever reason: a right to start the beef. It's not your right, and of course I don't want you to do that either here or on Discord, lmao.
Exhibit E
I already excluded myself from being in touch with the site so "i can protect the staff from these grievances"
Basic emotional manipulation. A variant of the perennial abuse classic: "You don't understand how kind I am: I only hit you half as had as I did last week. I'm only doing this for your own good, why can't you be thankful?" You might be thinking you're doing the community a favor by "protecting" the staff from yourself but you should instead be focused on the source of those grievances which is—*drum roll*—also yourself! Consider not treating your presence as some sort of innate right because it obviously isn't. It's always been a privilege, and if you can't behave civilly, we will remove it.
As you can see, I haven't even made it halfway through your second post; there's just so much you think up, misrepresent, obfuscate, or omit all the time, and I don't have the entire evening to unpack it all given how much longer it takes for me to explain these things than for you to write them.
I've split this entire discussion off to keep the submission thread for discussing the submission itself, as it should've been. I'll let this discussion play out for a bit longer here in case anybody from the judges or administrators is willing to engage, but if the tone doesn't improve, be aware that it can be locked and grued at any point for serving no purpose other than for you to vent.
I'm not trying to vent about anything, I made a joke and you guys feel like it's a tremendous insult to your voluntary work in this site. I mentioned the praise not as an obligation but as a genuine intent of showing that I don't dislike the staff, I occasionally talk with some very specific people that are staff about the site.
I'm the one who started the negative interaction so it's up to me to apologize to you, specially the ones who participated and anyone who might read it later.
As for not being a complete and thorough criticisms, most jokes aren't very long criticisms of anything. I also mentioned my avoidance of communication because I don't expect my communication to be represented as an attack and it has happened before, this is frustrating.
I felt like I was distant enough for you guys not to take a view that my joke would be an attack and by distant i mean not frequently interacting with you in a negative way. I also didn't crucify the maker of the TAS I have no idea where that came from, the TAS is pretty good but it's 4 hours long, haven't finished it.
If it feels like I undervalue your work as a Staff or whatever role you have in this site, all of you, be the people that responded or not, I'm sorry for my post, it wasn't meant to offensive. I really appreciate the work of all of you, how the site is run, better rule changes and i've said that on that stream and the disagreement I cracked a joke about mentioned is very specific. It is, however, a recurrent theme and hopefully someday the site can find a way to verify savefiles in some manner.
To Digital Duck. it's from https://fairlyoddparents.fandom.com/wiki/Da_Rules it was a cartoon i enjoyed when being younger so i didn't think that would be offensive as well. I remember they were more or less the center of the characters' actions. Thought you guys might have the same age and know where it's from.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto.
TAS i'm interested:
Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS?
i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.