Topic by Zurreco

Posted: 12/9/2006 12:40 AM

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Zurreco

Former player

Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA

Yes, Zora out of the water is doable without cheats. Unless it somehow becomes applicable in Great Bay Temple, though, it probably won't be used.

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Posted: 12/9/2006 2:02 AM

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Comicalflop

Editor, Experienced player (730)

Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA

Couldn't any place with water make it usable?

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Posted: 12/9/2006 3:59 PM

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Mukki

Skilled player (1090)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

This redo is taking a lot longer than I thought it would. I hoped to have it up today, but I keep getting desyncs. I got 5 whilst trying to get the stray fairy and after I passed that I am now toiling with another one at the bank. I'll try and get it up soon. I expect to save about 3 seconds over my last time, however, this one looks clearly sloppier due to the period where speed doesn't matter (I played at normal speed because I was pissed off). All text is still skipped optimally of course. The point of the matter is that I won't again redo half the movie for the sake of 3 seconds. In future I'll make the WIPs more frequent so that if anything needs redone then I won't need to spend so much time over it.

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 12/10/2006 3:48 AM

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petrie911

Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 635

How exactly is this flying out of water glitch accomplished? I can think of many uses for it, but they largely depend on how it is activated.

Posted: 12/10/2006 4:44 AM

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Comicalflop

Editor, Experienced player (730)

Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA

Good news- I was able to get through the entire first WIP. No desynch at the scarecrow. And I did it through deleting the .fla file that is in the save folder in Mupen. I'd remebered that OrgeSlayeR said to delete the .fla to watch Command Conquer, so I tried deleting the Majora's Mask .fla and it worked. So I'll be able to watch all WIPs from now on. I'm not sure if deleting the .f;a all the time is going to solve desynch problems Mukki, but it's worth trying. Every time you plaback the movie file it adds the .fla file in your save folder in the Mupen directory, so see if deleting that every time it pops up solves things. I'm guessing not, but it made me able to watch the WIP without desynching immediatly. As to flying out of water... I believe a large body of water where you can dive under, and you go near the shore and somehow start swimming, and you'll get pushed into the air while still Zora swimming... I dunno, I saw it on youtube, can't remember it too well.

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Posted: 12/10/2006 7:44 AM

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petrie911

Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 635

Well, here's what I can find about the Flying in air glitch. First, a documentation of it on Zelda Chaos, with a demonstrative GIF to go with it. We might want to check out some of the other glitches here to look for usefulness. http://www.jaytheham.com/zc/mm.php?page=mmmc048 Secondly, there's a similar mention of the glitch in this FAQ. It's number 18 http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/n64/file/zelda_majoras_mask_glitch.txt It looks like a sloped exit from the water is needed, but it is not clear if a specific grade of slope is needed.

Posted: 12/10/2006 6:04 PM

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asteron

Joined: 2/16/2005
Posts: 462

So I guess you can't get very far from the water using this?

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Posted: 12/10/2006 6:14 PM

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petrie911

Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 635

According to the glitch FAQ on Gamefaqs, you can supposedly get higher. I have yet to replicate that, but I haven't played around with it that much. If it is possible to get higher and this works on any sloped exit from the water, we can skip bomb hovering in the boss door room of GBT.

Posted: 12/10/2006 9:33 PM

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Mukki

Skilled player (1090)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/3088/Copy%20of%20ZELDA%20MAJORA%27S%20MASK%20%28USA%29.m64 Here's the finished update. By my calculations I am around 4 seconds faster than I was previously and I am now roughly 31 seconds faster than AKA. Take a look and get back to me, but I now really hate this section of the game and i really want to move on. I think 4 seconds off what was already an impressive time is surely very close to perfection.

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 12/10/2006 10:05 PM

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Comicalflop

Editor, Experienced player (730)

Joined: 6/13/2006
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Location: Massachussetts, USA

It looked good... gave you an extra 4 seconds to fiddle around with, and I see you played around with the heartpiece even more. What was weird was that the optimal movement, i.e. backwalking and such stopped as soon as scarecrow was done... I think this would seem weird to a first viewer watching optimal movements and then suddenly unoptimal movements (not counting flipping over the counter of course.) By all means, I believe that this section is done, go start on the next section!

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Posted: 12/10/2006 10:06 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

That seemed pretty optimal time wise except during the skullkid battle you don't Z target and walk toward him while creating a bubble, since it saves magic and time. Although I think I made the mistake of not spining after letting go of the bubble in order to get closer to the dropped Ocarina. Once you've corrected that I think you should move on since there is a lot of stuff that you should be more worried about over the next hour of play.

Posted: 12/10/2006 10:23 PM

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mwl

Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636

Good going, Mukki. I'll watch your WIP after it's been converted to video format to save time, since my computer is slow at fast-forwarding .m64s in Mupen. For your convenience, here's the revised route for the next portion of the run (the major change being that it's no longer necessary to talk to Darmani in the Village): Clock Tower * Talk to the Happy Mask Salesman. Fast-forward all text with A/B. * Learn the Song of Healing. Use frame advance to play the notes quickly. * Collect the Deku Mask and exit. South Clock Town * Turn right and slash the owl statue with your sword. This creates a warp point for use later. * Head to East Clock Town. East Clock Town * Collect a silver rupee in the chest above the Shooting Gallery. (Wallet: 99; Bank: 99; Total: 198) * Head to the Bomb Shop in West Clock Town. Bomb Shop * Buy a bomb bag with 50 rupees. (Wallet: 49; Bank: 99; Total: 148) (Bombs: 20) West Clock Town * Deposit 49 rupees into the bank. (Wallet: 0; Bank: 148; Total: 148) * Head to North Clock Town through South Clock Town, and exit to Termina Field. Termina Field * Equip bombs (C buttons: Ocarina, Bombs) * Use the infinite sword glitch to get through the ice crystals. (Bombs: 19) (Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGirAddjXCk) * The winding climb up to Mountain Village is difficult to optimize. This may take some time. Mountain Village * Superslide/backwalk to the owl statue near the northern exit and slash it with your sword. * Head to Goron Village via the eastern exit. Superslide/backwalk whenever possible for efficient movement. * Jump over the invisible platforms to the cave containing the Lens of Truth. Skip the owl dialogue. (Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2Bw6XY2XXk) * Collect the Lens of Truth inside the cave. Goron Village * Superslide/backwalk whenever possible back to Mountain Village. * Climb the invisible ladders to the graveyard (preferably without using the Lens to conserve magic.) Goron Graveyard * Equip the Lens of Truth to see Darmani, and play the Song of Healing. (C buttons: Ocarina, Bombs, Lens) * Collect the Goron Mask and equip it. (C buttons: Ocarina, Bombs, Goron Mask) * Play the Song of Time to warp back to South Clock Town. At this point, the run will be about 10% complete.

Posted: 12/10/2006 11:07 PM

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Mitjitsu

He/Him

Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

mwl wrote:

Clock Tower * Talk to the Happy Mask Salesman. Fast-forward all text with A/B. * Learn the Song of Healing. Use frame advance to play the notes quickly. * Collect the Deku Mask and exit. South Clock Town * Turn right and slash the owl statue with your sword. This creates a warp point for use later.* Head to East Clock Town. East Clock Town * Collect a silver rupee in the chest above the Shooting Gallery. (Wallet: 99; Bank: 99; Total: 198) * Head to the Bomb Shop in West Clock Town. Bomb Shop * Buy a bomb bag with 50 rupees. (Wallet: 49; Bank: 99; Total: 148) (Bombs: 20) West Clock Town * Deposit 49 rupees into the bank. (Wallet: 0; Bank: 148; Total: 148) * Head to North Clock Town through South Clock Town, and exit to Termina Field. Termina Field * Equip bombs (C buttons: Ocarina, Bombs) * Use the infinite sword glitch to get through the ice crystals. (Bombs: 19) (Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGirAddjXCk) * The winding climb up to Mountain Village is difficult to optimize. This may take some time. Mountain Village * Superslide/backwalk to the owl statue near the northern exit and slash it with your sword. * Head to Goron Village via the eastern exit. Superslide/backwalk whenever possible for efficient movement. * Jump over the invisible platforms to the cave containing the Lens of Truth. Skip the owl dialogue. (Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2Bw6XY2XXk) * Collect the Lens of Truth inside the cave. Goron Village * Superslide/backwalk whenever possible back to Mountain Village. * Climb the invisible ladders to the graveyard (preferably without using the Lens to conserve magic.) Goron Graveyard * Equip the Lens of Truth to see Darmani, and play the Song of Healing. (C buttons: Ocarina, Bombs, Lens) * Collect the Goron Mask and equip it. (C buttons: Ocarina, Bombs, Goron Mask) * Play the Song of Time to warp back to South Clock Town. At this point, the run will be about 10% complete.

I have to disagree with the things I put in boldface. For the first one wouldn't it be better to do the Owl statue after getting the silver ruppee, for the second one (and trillionth time) it would be infinitley better to use a navi text to activate the sword glitch, although bombs are still needed for super sliding and to blow up the snow boulders.

Posted: 12/10/2006 11:09 PM

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Mukki

Skilled player (1090)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

AKA wrote:

That seemed pretty optimal time wise except during the skullkid battle you don't Z target and walk toward him while creating a bubble, since it saves magic and time. Although I think I made the mistake of not spining after letting go of the bubble in order to get closer to the dropped Ocarina.

After the cutscene where Skull Kid drops the Ocarina the game always resets your position to the same distance from where I am anyway so moving closer to the Ocarina doesn't make a difference.

mwl wrote:

East Clock Town * Collect a silver rupee in the chest above the Shooting Gallery. (Wallet: 99; Bank: 99; Total: 198) * Head to the Bomb Shop in West Clock Town.

Would it not be faster to do this before slashing the owl statue and then slashing the statue en route to the bomb shop? Also, if my memory serves me correctly, do you not need a chicken to get this chest? If so then wouldn't I need to start the bomber minigame first because the chicken doesn't appear otherwise.

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 12/10/2006 11:14 PM

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petrie911

Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 635

No, roll jumps suffice to get across the gaps.

Posted: 12/10/2006 11:17 PM

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Zurreco

Former player

Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA

Mukki wrote:

Also, if my memory serves me correctly, do you not need a chicken to get this chest? If so then wouldn't I need to start the bomber minigame first because the chicken doesn't appear otherwise.

You can run across the awnings/planters against the wall, so simply jumping as human Link will clear the jumps.

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Posted: 12/10/2006 11:24 PM

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Mukki

Skilled player (1090)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

Ah, nice. Am I correct about the Skull Kid thing though? I remember testing it by Deku spinning to where the Ocarina lands before hitting Skull Kid, however, after he dropped it I was sent back to where you gain control initially. Also, moving closer to Skull Kid whilst charging the bubble won't make any difference either considering the speed the bubbles move at and I only charge for about 7 input frames anyway. Am I good to go on?

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 12/10/2006 11:26 PM

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Zurreco

Former player

Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA

Mukki wrote:

Am I correct about the Skull Kid thing though? I remember testing it by Deku spinning to where the Ocarina lands before hitting Skull Kid, however, after he dropped it I was sent back to where you gain control initially.

Well, does it matter really? If you don't get reset, you're that much closer. If you do get reset, it's not like you really lose any time. Better to spin regardless, I'd say.

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Posted: 12/10/2006 11:29 PM

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Mukki

Skilled player (1090)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

I guess it doesn't matter. Everything seems to be in order. The bubble part is a major desync area for me anyway and I think i've pushed my luck far enough. I'll move on tomorrow, right now I need sleep. EDIT :- Also, here's a save state just for good measure. It is more reliable to play the movie from the start, but if you really want to push it then this will get you to the start of the Clock Town cycle. http://files.filefront.com//;6335739;;/

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 12/11/2006 6:43 AM

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Comicalflop

Editor, Experienced player (730)

Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA

I made a savestate on my own at the beginning of the town, a little fastfowarding shouldn't be problematic for me. Since I have time and patience, I'll try to watch all your WIPs from the beginning to make sure no desynchs are present. Although that'll be problematic later one. Have you tried what I suggested by always deleting the .fla file?

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Posted: 12/11/2006 7:00 AM

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mwl

Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636

AKA wrote:

I have to disagree with the things I put in boldface. For the first one wouldn't it be better to do the Owl statue after getting the silver ruppee

Yes.

AKA wrote:

for the second one (and trillionth time) it would be infinitley better to use a navi text to activate the sword glitch, although bombs are still needed for super sliding and to blow up the snow boulders.

Yes.

Posted: 12/11/2006 7:21 AM

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DK64_MASTER

Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose

Looks very good Mukki. But 1 question. Why are you using th jabo 1.5.2 plugin? 1.6 is much better, and doesn't give you nearly as many bad textures. I guess it's too late to change this, but just giving you a heads up about next time. Perhaps this was the reason the movie was desyncing for others?

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Posted: 12/11/2006 7:24 AM

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Mukki

Skilled player (1090)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

comicalflop// I'll try but I on;y imagine it'll help for graphical desyncs, not input desyncs (like what I get). mwl // nice map btw, keeps everything nice and simple. DK64_MASTER // I used it at the start to keep things as simple as possible, it seemed a good idea at the time, not so sure now.

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 12/11/2006 2:59 PM

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Mukki

Skilled player (1090)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

Just a quick thought - Could it possibly be faster leaving Clock Town via the West exit and then super sliding to the right? This would avoid the extra two screen transitions and also moving back through South and North clock town. The only changes this would make would be after getting the chest I would move diagonally through south clock town to slash the statue. Would this be faster?

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 12/11/2006 3:23 PM

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Mitjitsu

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Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

I was actaully thinking more of this route for three reasons 1. Shorter path 2. Less transitional screens 3. Better angle for Supersliding [URL=http://imageshack.us]

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