Topic by upthorn

Posted: 3/29/2006 8:47 AM
(Edited: 4/19/2006 6:02 AM)

Post subject: Knuckles Chaotix (32X Game) TAS Submitted.

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upthorn

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Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802

Hi. I'm new here, but I've been checking out this site's speedruns for a while. I've started a WIP of Knuckles Chaotix, and have already found a couple of tricks (which aren't even glitches) allowing for unlimited airtime, unlimited height jumps, and full stop in 6 4 frames as knuckles. I've also run into one glitch ~~I haven't been able to reproduce,~~ which allows for diagonal travel through walls. I've completed the introductory level so far, using the rom "Knuckles Chaotix 32X (5) [!].32x" This GMV was made with GENS 9F, and the following controller settings Player 1: 6, 1-B: 3, 1-C: 3, 1-D: 3 Player 2: 6, 2-B: 3, 2-C: 3, 2-D: 3 ~~It does not desync when played with those settngs, and NTSC [!] rom.~~ I have recieved numerous reports of desyncs when playing back. As Sprintgod explained, this issue is due to lack of srm. There is now a default srm in the zip file which allows for playback.. Here[/u]'s the submission page. UPDATE: Completes ALL LEVELS with Knuckles and Espio Edit list: 1. Fixed link 2. Updated GMV with new level and new spindash technique 3. Fixed links... again. 4. Itemized edit list. 5. Updated GMV with Speed Slider 2-5. Updated GST so prior viewers can skip intro and Speed Slider 1. 6. Updated GMV with Amazing Arena 1-5. Updated GST so prior viewers can skip straight to Amazing Arena 1. Found a couple glitches. Added list of glitches/tricks discovered so far. 7. Added controller setting info. 8. As sprintgod pointed out, it was not the controller settings, but an issue with the SRM causing the desync issue. 9. Update, five more levels done. Wall zipping explained. 10. Update, COMPLETES ALL LEVELS 11. Update, Submitted.

How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.

Posted: 3/29/2006 2:34 PM

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Highness

Player (70)

Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden

I will probably check this one later and give some input. :)

Posted: 3/29/2006 2:56 PM

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NrgSpoon

Joined: 6/14/2004
Posts: 646

What a coincidence, I was just thinking about how cool this game would be a few days ago. What you've done so far looks pretty good, despite the low precision. Something you might want to consider though, is using a save file instead of the no save. That way you can exit after finishing the intro stage and reload it as a two player game. You'll get a much greater degree of control that way. Of course, if there's some other way to get 2 player control I don't know about, then I guess it isn't an issue.

I like my "thank you"s in monetary form.

Posted: 3/29/2006 9:37 PM

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upthorn

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Posts: 1802

I've been thinking about doing two player control, but I'm not sure if two player control allows for all the mid-air stunts I'm doing using "hold". And there's no way to assure that all potential viewers have that save-slot open.

How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.

Posted: 3/29/2006 11:51 PM

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Andypro

Joined: 5/24/2004
Posts: 262

I support your run! I owned this game back in the day, and thought it was pretty fun and inventive.

Posted: 3/30/2006 6:49 AM
(Edited: 3/30/2006 5:03 PM)

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upthorn

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Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802

Have now completed Speed Slider Zone, part one with a time of 12'94 seconds. Figured out optimal spindash technique. Discovered a way to exit Isolated Island without entering special stage, even if I have 50+ rings. Updated the GMV in the first post, and added a link to a savestate for those who have already seen it. (Both new techniques are displayed after the savestate.)

How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.

Posted: 3/30/2006 10:22 AM

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Atma

Former player

Joined: 9/1/2005
Posts: 803

upthorn wrote:

Have now completed Speed Slider Zone, part one with a time of 12'94 seconds. Figured out optimal spindash technique. Discovered a way to exit a level without entering special stage, even if I have 50+ rings. Updated the GMV in the first post, and added a link to a savestate for those who have already seen it. (Both new techniques are displayed after the savestate.)

Looks nice, but it desynced on both roms I tried that I had (JU, and JU[f1]) after about 9 seconds? on speed slider, you go flying up heaps high, then starting going right, and then make Espio hold and then Knuckles just runs right and left and right while he's anchored. Still, quite impressive I say.

Posted: 3/30/2006 10:23 AM

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upthorn

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I'm using the "Knuckles Chaotix 32X (5) [!].32x" ROM, and haven't experienced any desync errors. The CRC should be D0B0B842.

How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.

Posted: 3/30/2006 3:20 PM

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NrgSpoon

Joined: 6/14/2004
Posts: 646

upthorn wrote:

Discovered a way to exit a level without entering special stage, even if I have 50+ rings.

Um, I'm pretty sure all you do here is not enter the special ring. Hardly seems to merit the term "discovery" :P

I like my "thank you"s in monetary form.

Posted: 3/30/2006 5:06 PM

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upthorn

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As it turns out, on most levels, you are correct. But Isolated Island (the training level) has no score counter, so there's no time limit on entering the ring, rather entering the ring is the only obvious way to exit the level. (The other way is to reduce your rings below 50)

How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.

Posted: 3/31/2006 12:01 AM

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mike89

Active player (301)

Joined: 8/8/2005
Posts: 296
Location: NSW, Australia

Just for reference, the current TSC record for Speed Slider 1 is 10"96. We do have videos for about half the levels in this game - might be worth consulting. Given some levels are better played at different times of day, could you luck manipulate to get the best result? EDIT: Both your links have an unnecessary " on the end.

Posted: 3/31/2006 2:40 AM

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upthorn

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Posts: 1802

I saw some of those videos, but I don't see any videos up that were actually of the record time. And none of them were especially helpful in determining the effects of time of day (if there are any). Anyway, I am aware of some errors in Speed Slider 1. Obviously it would be much faster if I didn't go all the way to the top of the level, or get stuck momentarily on that one platform.

How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.

Posted: 3/31/2006 3:14 AM

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nesrocks

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upthorn wrote:

And there's no way to assure that all potential viewers have that save-slot open.

as far as i know, save slots are replaced with the one your movie contains.

aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios

Posted: 3/31/2006 3:18 AM

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upthorn

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FODA wrote:

upthorn wrote:
And there's no way to assure that all potential viewers have that save-slot open.
as far as i know, save slots are replaced with the one your movie contains.

That's only if there's no save file to start with. I mean, I could tell the movie to delete the save in that slot and then start from there, but... that could be mean.

How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.

Posted: 3/31/2006 3:21 AM

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nesrocks

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no, not really. at least in other emulators, it replaces the file the person has with the file your movie has. try saving on the slot a different thing from the movie, then play the movie.

aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios

Posted: 3/31/2006 2:25 PM

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upthorn

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FODA wrote:

no, not really. at least in other emulators, it replaces the file the person has with the file your movie has. try saving on the slot a different thing from the movie, then play the movie.

Just to satisfy you, I tested, and it does not work that way. If there were data in the saveslot, the movie would just desync, unless I were to make the motions for deleting the data, in which case some frames would be wasted if there weren't data there. And several of the tricks I'm relying on don't work in two player mode, so there's no point in using a save slot except to switch characters between rounds, which I don't plan on doing.

mike89 wrote:

Just for reference, the current TSC record for Speed Slider 1 is 10"96.

Do you happen to know which characters were used for that run? It seems that different characters have different maximum speeds that apply even in flight. (For instance, If I were to do this exact same route with heavy attached, instead of Espio, it would take about 1.5 times as long)

How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.

Posted: 3/31/2006 6:08 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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Okay, it sounds as though Gens uses a separate save file for movies that use saved data. That means you should put together the save file that will be the most efficient for your movie and keep a backup copy at all times in case you accidentally change it somehow. Then when you submit your movie, you provide the save file for the viewers to swap out with their own save files.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 4/6/2006 7:52 PM

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upthorn

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Posts: 1802

Updated run. Redid Speed Slider 2-4 due to lost data, and added Speed Slider 5. Beats TSC's record times on intro, Speed Slider 2, 4, and 5. Total time difference so far is -0'35"81 Knuckles is suboptimal on Speed Slider.

Bag of Magic Food wrote:

Okay, it sounds as though Gens uses a separate save file for movies that use saved data.

Perhaps you missed the post where I tested and found that Gens movie 9F does NOT use a separate save file for movies.

How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.

Posted: 4/6/2006 10:49 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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So where the heck is the save data?

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 4/6/2006 11:05 PM

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upthorn

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Bag of Magic Food wrote:

So where the heck is the save data?

GENS uses the same srm for movies as it does for normal play. Also, using the save slot causes an extra 18 frames of black before each level. As a result, I am still using the "no save" slot in this movie. So I am not including save data with this run.

How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.

Posted: 4/6/2006 11:28 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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That's what I meant...

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 4/8/2006 4:04 PM

Post subject: Knuckles Chaotix

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theenglishman

Active player (440)

Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 940
Location: Toronto, Canada

Could someone BitTorrent this run? 32X hasn't worked on my comp since I got my harddrive reformatted... And concerning all the "oh-what-happened-to-your-BIOS" questions, 32X just doesn't work with me. Period. So pls BitTorrent?

My current project: Something mysterious (oooooh!) My username is all lower-case letters. Please get it right :(

Posted: 4/9/2006 2:29 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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How about when it's finished?

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 4/9/2006 3:11 AM

Post subject: Re: Knuckles Chaotix

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upthorn

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Updated the video! Grab the new version from the first post. (overwrite your old ones).

theenglishman wrote:

Could someone BitTorrent this run? 32X hasn't worked on my comp since I got my harddrive reformatted... And concerning all the "oh-what-happened-to-your-BIOS" questions, 32X just doesn't work with me. Period. So pls BitTorrent?

It makes no sense that 32X just wouldn't work for you. If you're willing to try, I can help you set it up with files that I know are good. PM me if you'd like to try. As magic food said, it makes very little sense to torrent this run before it's completed. Especially since AVI files are so very large as compared to the GMVs.

How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.

Posted: 4/9/2006 11:46 AM

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mike89

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Joined: 8/8/2005
Posts: 296
Location: NSW, Australia

So I finally got around to watching this. (Two ROMs and controller settings bungles later...) I like it so far, it looks impressive, and the finish to Amazing Arena 4 looks brilliant. =D However, I don't know if it's because of character selection or what have you, but your times are in some cases worse than the TSC records. I may endeavour to get gamersince93 here and give you good routes for the remainder of the levels, to save you the trouble of working them out yourself. Also, in the "real" run, I suppose you'll attack the thinger that decides your level on the first available frame rather than going through each level separately? (since you'll have all your routes down by then, hopefully)