Sub 0:08 Nick Bruiser strategy found. Thanks to all who a) insisted it is possible (samuri goroth & Phil particularly) and b) those who were confident I would find it (AngerFist).
  • 1) Primary goal: Aims for fastest completion time of each boxer
  • 2) Secondary goal: Aims for fastest real time when it doesn't conflict with 1)
  • Emulator: SNES9X v1.43+ v9)
  • Settings: WIP1 Timing, Allow left+right, Volume Env. Height Reading, Sync samples with sound CPU
  • Abuses programming errors in the game (the "pause" glitch)
  • Doesn't take damage (only because it is not advantageous)
  • Manipulates Luck
This run is 99 frames faster than the published run in real time and only a 0.91 sec different in game clock improvements. This however is a pretty significant improvement considering a) how competed this game is b) that these some of these times are possible unassisted (many of these TAS times have been done on a console by top speed runners, including me) c) Phil did an amazing job with his TAS.
3 opponents were improved, but only Nick was improved by using a new strat. There were minor real time improvements as well such as using the pause glitch more optimally, using the proper super punch to get the quickest knockdown animation (where it did not conflict with the fastest game clock time), and NOT using the pause glitch on piston hurricane (the same time can be achieved without it).
Also, I "lost" 16 frames at the beginning because I clicked the "cleared the SRAM" button before recording which Phil seemed to have not done. Phil's "dirty SRAM" oddly resulted in the title screen appearing 16 frames sooner.
Here are the times that I achieved:
   * Gabby Jay - 06.26
   * Bear Hugger - 13.49
   * Piston Hurricane - 05.50
   * Bald Bull - 08.64 
   * Bob Charlie - 05.50
   * Dragon Chan - 07.49
   * Masked Muscle - 06.33
   * Mr. Sandman - 13.13 
   * Aran Ryan - 08.45
   * Heiki Kagero - 10.60
   * Mad Clown - 09.22 *
   * Super Macho Man - 09.43 
   * Narcis Prince - 08.47 *
   * Hoy Quarlow - 8.35
   * Rick Bruiser - 10.71
   * Nick Bruiser - 07.54 * 
The * are times that were improved from the current published run.
A quick explanation of the pause glitch: By stunning the opponent your super punch meter increases more but it takes time for it to increase, thereby delaying when you can super punch. Fortunately, when you pause the game, the meter continues to rise. So there are a few strategic places where pausing the game can significantly improve how quickly you can throw your first super punch.

Truncated: Accepted for improving an existing run.
Phil: Just to mention that even though the author seems to claim he is the first to obtain that Nick Bruiser time, it is not the case. Genisto managed to do it. It's just not in the published version but in some WIP. Also, I told adelikat that 7:5x time is possible, so he works hard to achieve that time.

Active player (410)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
Huh!? I said time not technique. Once a time had been found once, it can't found again .
Former player
Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587
Phil wrote:
Huh!? I said time not technique. Once a time had been found once, it can't found again .
But adelikat didn't know how to do it and found out that by himself.
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3600)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4739
Location: Tennessee
<None of this matters> About the time of Phil & Genisto's subission, and avi was floating around that demonstrated a sub 8sec Nick bruiser time. I suppose Genisto made a quick demo movie of this fight at some point. Only phil has seen it. The # of people insisting that there is a sub 8sec time led me to keep looking for a strategy. Phil mentioned that genisto had a 7.54 time, though I had no reason to believe him. This avi & genisto movie no longer existed at the time of this strategy. </None of this matters>
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
JXQ
Experienced player (750)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
Yes it can, because the time/technique (I mean the same thing here) found by Genisto wasn't given to the community in the form of a demo or another run, so the community can still discover it for themselves. Genisto may have found it before adelikat, but adelikat still discovered it independently of Genisto's work. It's kind of like an involved math proof - some things were worked on by more than one person who didn't work together, and they both found the same result. In that case they are both credited with its discovery with the phrase "(Math proof), discovered by (Person A) and (Person B) independently".
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Active player (410)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
No reasons to believe me. and funny thing is that you managed to prove that I am right after and you don't believe me???????????????????? Wow, you are hypocrite JXQ: Believe in what you believe, I am leaving this conversation before you gang up like you love to do.
JXQ
Experienced player (750)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
I don't understand what you mean. I never said I did or didn't believe you. I'm just trying to explain what independent discovery means.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Phil is trying to say that if not for Genisto finding the faster time, no one else would've thought it was possible and even bother to try to recreate that time. Yes adelikat came up with the method on his own, but Genisto did notice the faster time first and thus sparked others to try it.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Editor, Player (53)
Joined: 12/25/2004
Posts: 634
Location: Aguascalientes, Mexico
Nach wrote:
Phil is trying to say that if not for Genisto finding the faster time, no one else would've thought it was possible and even bother to try to recreate that time.
FALSE It was mentioned long time ago on GameFAQs board that Nick's time could be subbed 8 seconds. Also, I've mentined some times that where posted on a Mexican Magazine which are lower than some called WR & I'm confident that this records are genuine, but noone has found the strats. Maybe I should seach & scan the magazine so you believe me...
I'm the best in the Universe! Remember that!
Active player (410)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
samurai goroh: TRUE. The record was something like 7:80 or something. Genisto was 7:54. And strategy is different. Btw you said that you were doubtful about those magazine times and now, you change your mind? Edit: Yes, scan it. Btw, don't write small letters.
upthorn
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Active player (388)
Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802
Nach wrote:
Phil is trying to say that if not for Genisto finding the faster time, no one else would've thought it was possible and even bother to try to recreate that time.
Because if Genisto hadn't first found that the time could be beaten, obviously Adelikat never would have tried. In the exact same way that Adelikat didn't try to beat any of the other times that Genisto han't found improvements on. Oh wait, or was it that Adelikat tried and succeeded at improving those times, even though he had no proof it would be possible beforehand?
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Editor, Player (53)
Joined: 12/25/2004
Posts: 634
Location: Aguascalientes, Mexico
What I meant to say is that the TAS times are supposed WR times, but I know some of they are not. I've tried lots of things agains Gabby Jay, yet I didn't succeed. Maybe there's a unique combination that is faster, maybe there's a bug, I don't know. But I still believe those times I mentioned are genuine, though they are hard to believe...
I'm the best in the Universe! Remember that!
Active player (410)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
When I think that today, people need to see it by their own eyes. The truth is that I haven't watched adelikat's run. I could say it's untrue. Though, I trust adelikat and people that did watched it. Unfortunately, some people don't trust me. Also, we could trust those records from that Mexican magazine. However, no one never heard of those guys from that magazine while me, Genisto, adelikat and some others, which are really known to work on this game. And the times really look exaggerated. Imo, they are false. The problem with this game is that some newcomers tend to claim false records. If tomorrow adelikat say that he found an improvement and he looks serious, I will trust him even if I didn't watched his video. Also, when I worked on this game with Genisto, there wasn't videos, or a few and some were slower than record, to verify those records at jarboo's site. But we trust them even though some were doubtful because we weren't able to be equally fast or faster. But after persisting we found the strategies. After, some of the times where improved which makes some of the fights in our movie slower but at least we made a contribution. When I said to adelikat a 7:5x time was possible he didn't trust me at first but I really insist him to try.
Joined: 12/7/2006
Posts: 3
Sorry about posting my little query in the wrong subject, for starters, I was searching for a topic titled "super punch out" and missed the hyphen <_< So the answer to my question is basically that there was no time lost between the last head punch and knockout, but the inconsistency is due to rounding of the in-game timer, and if we were to see thousands or ten-thousandths of a second on the in-game timer, then it would be clearer? Kind of a pain in the butt how a frame can count as either 1 or 2 centiseconds. Maybe time should move to the metric system! ~Flamy
Active player (410)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
The problem is that there is 100 cs for 1 s and ~60 frames for 1 s. I also think that decimal time is better. Anyway since cs is base 100, it won't resolve anything. It's NTSC TV standard that should move from 60 fps to 100 fps. As for PAL, there's no problem, it's alway 2 cs. But I don't remember if Super Punch Out uses real time system.
Editor, Player (53)
Joined: 12/25/2004
Posts: 634
Location: Aguascalientes, Mexico
Here are the scans of the magazine with some of the records...: Magazine #1 Zoomed in Magazine #2 Zoomed in
I'm the best in the Universe! Remember that!
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2007
Posts: 30
This was a great run. Fantastic work!
Banned User, Former player
Joined: 12/23/2004
Posts: 1850
You could try loading SPO and checking if tohse times are even valid; if the clock skips over that particular digit, either (a) the timer is random (unlikely) or (b) it's fake! It could work..
Perma-banned
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3600)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4739
Location: Tennessee
Well, I checked all the posted times that are faster than the TAS times. All were actual times on the clock. So that doesn't debunk them. However, I still believe them to be fake.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Active player (410)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
I did completed a run with Snes9x 1.52. I can't submit it since file format is different than official release (For short, Bisqwit doesn't want it). Here are my times: * Gabby Jay - 06.26 * Bear Hugger - 13.49 * Piston Hurricane - 05.49* * Bald Bull - 08.62* * Bob Charlie - 05.50 * Dragon Chan - 07.30* * Masked Muscle - 06.33 * Mr. Sandman - 13.13 * Aran Ryan - 08.45 * Heiki Kagero - 10.60 * Mad Clown - 09.05 * * Super Macho Man - 09.43 * Narcis Prince - 08.43 * * Hoy Quarlow - 8.35 * Rick Bruiser - 10.67* * Nick Bruiser - 07.52 * Anyway, an AVI will be available. I will post later when it will be available.
Banned User, Player (143)
Joined: 8/30/2010
Posts: 500
Location: Argentina Bs. As.
[18:51] <scrimpy> Oh, nothing [18:51] <mmarks> oh [18:51] <Nach> I think scrimpy is just jealous of you mmarks
Editor, Publisher, Player (46)
Joined: 10/15/2021
Posts: 371
YouTube encode: Link to video
Site Admin, Skilled player (1237)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11276
Location: RU
Looks ok, but once again I personally prefer to shift subs from the side to align with in-game GUI better. Probably not worth redoing, but please keep this in mind.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.