@Graveworm: About that Charged Plasma&X-Ray trick, it's some trick some unknown dude found( http://www.metroid2002.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4083). It does not work on Ridley because the Plasma Beam doesn't go through him. I've tried this trick on Torizo and had the feeling that it did take less shots to kill him,but that you could hit him only 2 times(or something) with one Plasma shot. I haven't done any serious testing though,so this could be bullshit aswell.
About the Ridley before Draygon route, can you freeze Golden Torizo w/o Murder Beam? You could freeze him in the right place and jump through the crumble block to the missile,I think. I doubt there is another way to the missile if that doesn't work.
Anyway,good luck with all the TAS-runs to you all
Have you tested sitting, shooting upwards and doing it while it jumps compared to not using the X-ray trick when it jumps? It's the only way I can think of that would be worth testing if you havn't, if it doesn't seem to be worth using during the whole battle.
I've never heard of freezing the Torizo, so I wouldn't know. (I'm not really into murder/time&space beams)
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/548/
Oh, and here's a cute little movie I made, I know that it sucks, but I felt like posting it anyways. :)
The gold torizo takes around 45 hits with charged ice/wave/spazer, so that is a no go. However, Super Missles are more effective than I thought. He can be hit with 3 out of 4, but more importantly, there are "states" that he can be hit freely without catching the missles, such as when he throws out those balls that can be hit for energy and weapons.
Left to test:
How fast to refill Super Missles?
How fast can Ridley be killed without Space Jump and Plasma Beam?
How quickly can the lava-lowering room be done without Space Jump?
For Ridley first to be faster, the time difference from these must be less than the amount of time it takes to run through the room in Norfair before the Ice Beam and back - which honestly is not very long, especially because you can Mockball back through the gates when going right.
By doing stuff in the more traditional order, there will be 40-45 Super Missles available for the Gold Torizo fight, AND the plasma beam. Both could be used to save more time.
GW, is the run you are posting going to be a 100% run or any%? (or just for fun with no real goal hehe)
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
GW, is the run you are posting going to be a 100% run or any%? (or just for fun with no real goal hehe)
It's just to get to learn how to play the game, in case I'd ever wanna make a demo of it. And it's gonna be played under as fast as possible conditions, which means I'm only gonna pick up what I need, the same as the published movie, but one extra missile pack to be able to kill Phantoon in one round, and some other minor things, I don't know if it's faster, but it does look alot cooler, I'm not gonna try to submit it or take it seriously, so yes, it's just for fun with no real goal. :)
You should shoot charged plasma while the torizo is jumping though, because it hits 2 times, and super missiles while he can't catch them, since it deals alot of damage in a short period of time.
Some of the items in lower norfair, at least one energy tank will be slower to get without space jump, (I believe), so you've gotta think about that too. I havn't been thinking about that much, but the more I read, the more I'm convinced that we should either find a way of getting spring ball without ice nor grapple beam, or get the ice beam during the first visit to norfair. Of course it would look much cooler if you got spring ball without ice, so I guess someone should try to find that other dude (I'm bad with names) that started the last "run" and ask him what he had in mind, or just find a way to do it on your own.
JXQ wrote:
By doing stuff in the more traditional order, there will be 40-45 Super Missles available for the Gold Torizo fight, AND the plasma beam. Both could be used to save more time.
I believe it doesn't matter how many super missiles are available, since you most surely wont use more than like 5-15 on the Gold Torizo. (I have no idea of how the number of hits with plasma/super missiles it takes, so I might be terribly wrong.)
Hmmm, just realized the strange thing with the Ice Beam which Michael has skipped... I also wonder how he can get the Spring Ball without it.
However, I highly doubt lower Norfair before Maridia is a good choice. Plasma/Ice/Wave is 3x stronger than Spazer/Ice/Wave which is not very good for a speedrun and the Space Jump is required to pass the Chozo Statue Check right before the Golden Torizo. You can get the Screw Attack and the Torizo fight with the Green Gate Glitch but you can't get the Missile-Pack which is above the crumble blocks.
The only explanation for Michaels route is that he either knows another strange and unknown trick to get the Spring Ball or that he just forgot to calculate the need of the Ice Beam for that.
Maybe you should ask a Super Metroid Expert about this problem for clarification.
Speaking of Botwoon, you guys do know the trick to killing him with the Grapple Beam right? I watched both the currently published runs and neither of them use it because the player didn't get the Grapple Beam. I was just wondering if you knew because it is a real timesaver.
As for getting the Spring Ball without the Ice Beam or the Grapple Beam, I dunno. I think you should do what Saturn suggested and ask an expert.
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets."
Wally: "Really?"
Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying."
Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!"
Currently working on:
Nothing at the moment.
Yeah Draygon, not Botwoon. I knew I was going to get them confused.
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets."
Wally: "Really?"
Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying."
Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!"
Currently working on:
Nothing at the moment.
Joined: 9/7/2005
Posts: 144
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Saturn, question: Since nobody's really taking you seriously over at Metroid 2002, I want to ask you about the suitless reverse boss order run. Do you have a movie file of it aside from your teaser yet?
Hmmm, I wonder how I could make the AVI-teaser without having the movie-file... However I'm not sure if the guys outside of Bisqwits could watch it so I decided to make a Standard-AVI to give everybody the possibility to see my run. I don't want to spoil the surprise with the final run so I just make some demos of it in the AVI. This way you will still have a surprise seeing the full run from start to end when its done.
EDIT: Maybe I have misunderstood you Daniel. With movie-file I always mean the smv file which you can playback on Snes9x it is not a AVI file.
Next Demo will be in about a 2-3 weeks hopefully. I'm not that far in the run to make it worth for another Demo currently. Also because of the Party-Time in this weeks I don't have much possibilities to work that much on the RBO run but I give my best to progress there soon.
Thank you. No, I don't know of any areas earlier in the game. Passing through a ceiling requires a precise separation between the ceiling and the floor you are ducking on. So far that is the only place in the game I've found you can do that. You can freeze enemies and sometimes get out of certain rooms. So far nobody has found a trick of this sort that saves time in a speedrun, though.
That's not true. I saw a 100% console-run which used this "glitch" to get Spring Ball without Grappling Beam (by freezing a enemy). I assume you will do the same thing given the route you've taken.
michael flatley wrote:
We'll see, I haven't planned that far ahead yet.
There you go, from "Super Metroid 100% by MF."
It would seem to me that either Michael Flatley doesn't know how to get spring ball without ice, or he's just keeping it for himself.
I took a near look at the 2 rooms from which you can get the spring ball and without having the Grapple and Ice Beam it just is impossible to get the Spring ball. There are only solid blocks which you can't pass no matter what you do (I tried the kogo-ball and some frame optimized maneuver but no chance). The only way to pass through such blocks is to be in a duck position and touching the solid block with your head. But without the Ice-Beam there is absolutely no way to get such a position.
michael flatley wrote:
We'll see, I haven't planned that far ahead yet.
By reading this I'm to 90% sure Michael forgot about this in the plannings.
What about the X-ray glitch that lets you move upward through the walls? If it's possible to get into the wall somewhere, or one of the doors, maybe it would be possible to get through the wall. However, this may take so long that it's not worth doing over getting the ice beam.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
You will have to climb so many pixels to get to the door that it'll most certainly take minutes, and under the rooms conditions, no I don't think so. :)
Plus, if you go past the X-ray in the end, you can get it with screw attack and space jump. I don't know how you planned your route though.
