Player (70)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Hmm.. In vanilla dome 2 the second time, you hit that rugby player right before the goal. Are you sure there ain't any faster way to do this? Feels like you loose some time there.
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
of course I lose time there, that's why I wrote
So the second part that you can see now is not yet final (of course I'll hit a few more more bats during the flight ;))
the movie has been updated now (same link as above), 48 frames faster than the "alpha version" and collecting 2 1UPs :) the part where I run down those stairs looks a bit sloppy, but it's actually faster than jumping down.
Joined: 6/15/2004
Posts: 104
Location: Zürich / Switzerland
Hi, ok. this was great. Incredbible, what one can do with this cape... One thing though: Just before leaving the water, you are letting go of the shell and swimm along without it which seems very slow to me. Why are you dropping the shell so soon? Why not keeping it while killing the fish and then jump out of the water? I'm sure there must be a reason, I just can't see it. Philip
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
The beetle is waking up. See how it's shaking? If he held it any longer, it would wake up and do damage to him. EDIT: Perhaps it would be possible to throw the shell against a wall at some point in the water and then grab it again? Would this be any faster?
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
Kyrsimys is right, the shell is just about to transform back into a beetle. If I kept it just 1 frame longer, Mario would get hurt, and I couldn't find any way to avoid that (other than dropping the shell) btw the movie has been updated again, I did a little improvement in the 3rd room of Vanilla Dome 1 (I did a spin-jump flight instead of a normal flight), which saved a total of 9 frames, hooray :P I know the movie desynchs in the ghost house, but that was no serious attempt anyway. I won't work on the movie anymore today, going to a Machine Head concert tonight! =) ---edit--- ok I'll try that out, but I *think* throwing the shell doesn't prevent it form transforming back ---edit2--- so... throwing the shell up or down (which makes it easy to catch it again) does not prevent transformation. But: throwing it horizontally does. It's quite hard to catch the shell again, but in a first test I was already ~ 40 frames faster with this trick :). I'll try to make it perfect later today or tomorrow
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
I was playing SMW and thought of something. In VD3 (I think, it's the lava level with the Blarggs) there are slow moving rafts that you must ride. However, halfway through the stage there is a Yoshi and a red shell BUT if you have completed the special stages the shell is actually blue. Flying through the rest of the stage with the Yoshi is extremely fast when compared to the slow moving skull rafts. Have you taken this into consideration? The way I see it you should either have a blue yoshi or have beaten the special stages to take advantage of this. EDIT: There might be similar problems with other stages as well, but I can't think of any right now. I guess they should all be checked.
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
That would require a complete world map route change, entering the Star Road already in the Donut Plains. I doubt the time lost on the world map (in comparison to this route) would make up for the little time won in VD3, as it's actually only one long lava pool where you can profit from wings-Yoshi
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 498
Actually, I think it's all the game's green and red koopas, shell or live, that don't have wings, that turn yellow and blue after Funky...
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
Vanilla Dome 3 is indeed the only level that is affected by this red/blue shell "glitch" or whatever you call it. The other levels done before Funky either don't contain any koopas or they are outdoor levels where I wouldn't profit from flying with wings-Yoshi. I'll check out how much time exactly could have been gained with the wings-Yoshi, but I doubt it'll make up for the time lost on the world map (if I did a huge world map route change) btw I redid Vanilla Dome 2a with the throw-shell-trick, and improved the old time by 57 frames, also collecting one more 1UP from the bats. I'm now in the ghost house, as you can see it's not possible to fly through the ring of ghosts, so I guess I'll have to fly over them :( You can download the newest version of the movie here
Former player
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 366
It's looking very good. That trick worked well! :)
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
In the water level when you go down the first big drop, maybe you could try staying on the left so you can go right faster when you get low enough.
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
@Michael: I don't know if I understood you correct... do you mean the drop into the water after I climbed up the vine and jumped on 2 beetles? Actually I could have entered the water 1 frame faster (by jumping off 1 frame earlier), but then I would have lost a lot more time against the first fish, so I think this is the best possible solution. I take it as a compliment that this was the only criticism you could point out... :) btw I added the Vanilla Dome levels to the whole movie, and while having another look at the complete movie I noticed 3 things that could be improved: - Yoshi's Island 2: did some "optical tuning", doing more precise jumps which looks cooler imo (didn't save or cost any time) - Donut Plains 2b: I improved the passage after the football chuck, using the A button instead of B for flying (this maintains the running speed after Mario lands). This improved the time by 39 frames, after some desynch adjustment it was a 36 frame improvement in the end - Donut Plains 4: I find that passage really annoying where I fly over those 3 "holes" with gompas; I thought I hadn't tried carefully enough to hit at least one of them... but it turned out that it's really impossible to hit any of them without slowing down, so I had to leave this passage like it was :( Anyway, here you can now download the complete video from start to entering Vanilla Ghost House (the next levels will be done in a new movie file). The first 18 (out of 97) levels take about 16 minutes, I wonder how long the movie will be in the end... and how long I still need to complete it (guess I can forget about christmas ;P)
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 498
18 out of 97 is a bit less than one-fifth of the way through, so the finished movie will be 80 to 90 minutes...which I think will be the longest on this site, or close to it. o_O
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
Looks like only the SMB3 all-levels run may be longer than this... -Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Former player
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 375
Funny, the full completion of a Mario game is having it's longest movie record broken by the full completion of another Mario game. (edit: Josh beat me to it. Curse my inability to post quickly!)
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
@Michael: I don't know if I understood you correct... do you mean the drop into the water after I climbed up the vine and jumped on 2 beetles? Actually I could have entered the water 1 frame faster (by jumping off 1 frame earlier), but then I would have lost a lot more time against the first fish, so I think this is the best possible solution. As you go down that drop while carrying the shell, you stay against the right wall, so once you get low enough that you can go to the right, you have to first start accelerating. If you stay against the left wall as you drop down and start going to the right a little before you pass the bottom of the wall, you'll already be going to the right at full speed.
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
Ok I understood what you mean, and it saves 3 frames each... unfortunately the whole rest of the level desynchs if I just copy and paste it, so I guess I gotta redo all that again... :( btw, I wonder if Tokushin also hunted for every single frame when he did his 77 minutes time attack on SMB3...
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (968)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
Probably not. I'm a bit worried that you'll wear yourself out before finishing this, since you're aiming so high for the first version.
Joined: 5/4/2004
Posts: 90
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
Wow, finally got a good rom and watched your progress so far on this. Amazing. Can't wait for the finished product :D
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
btw, I wonder if Tokushin also hunted for every single frame when he did his 77 minutes time attack on SMB3... He definitely didn't. That movie can be improved a lot.
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 143
Location: Colorado
Viper, what you've done so far has been very solid and impressive. Looking forward to the finished product. Keep up the good work!
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
So, I did Vanilla Dome 2b again with the improved "big water drop" (3 frames faster). I maintained to keep up this 3 frame improvement up to the last water pool (before the keyhole), there the fish was in a different position so I had to swim differently, which cost me 1 frame, so in the end I put they key into the hole 2 frames earlier. I had to lose those 2 frames on the world map, or otherwise the Red Switch Palace would have desynched... :P Then I also redid the big water drop in Vanilla Dome 2a, also 3 frames faster, but this time I already had to give up when I reached the 3rd fish: It was impossible to pass him without losing the shell... So I just kept my old run for this level So, after several hours of work: 0 frames improvement... Anyway, from now on I won't touch the movie up to Vanilla Ghost House anymore, unless somebody finds a big (= at least 20 frames) error. Right now I'm debating whether I should continue like this (doing ~ 1 level per day, and spending the next days just fixing errors in that level), or if I should do one fast "alpha version" of all 97 levels, so everybody has enough time to point out possible improvements before I do the "perfect" run. @Truncated: Don't worry, so far I'm still highly motivated to continue this. Getting positive responses from (almost...) everyone also helps bigtime keeping the motivation up, thanx a lot!! ---edit--- Here you can see my first steps in Vanilla Ghost House. I think the first room was done as fast as possible, gotta check though if it's possible to get the last dragon coin without losing time. In the second room I guess I have too fly higher at the start, because I couldn't find a way to fly below the 4th bubble (where the movie ends). I also don't know yet how to get and grab the P-Block the fastest way... maybe spin-jump flight all the way? ---edit2--- yes I think I'll do the spin-jump flight, that way I can bounce off the bubbles which looks cool, and also get the P-Block while maintaining the running speed. but now I'll go to bed
Joined: 6/26/2004
Posts: 24
VIPer7 wrote:
Right now I'm debating whether I should continue like this (doing ~ 1 level per day, and spending the next days just fixing errors in that level), or if I should do one fast "alpha version" of all 97 levels, so everybody has enough time to point out possible improvements before I do the "perfect" run.
Probably... try to make it semi-fast though (don't bother correcting any slipups you know how to correct). Nothing other than good stuff so far... can't wait until final.
Emulator Coder
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 453
Location: Norway
I kinda like it the way you are doing it now. Level by level, and doing it part by part... It gives people the ability to give feedback as you advance levels, without you getting WAY too much feedback in 1 go.
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
Sorry for not mentioning this sooner, but I have a question about before going down that drop. Would it be faster if you jump before the drop and just miss the corner on your way down so that you're already going down faster when you're past the edge of the platform, or does Mario jump slower than he runs in this game, in which case it wouldn't be worth it?