One of the best games of all time, in my opinion, is The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past. I have it for the GBA, and I love it. But once you've beaten the game, what else is there to do?
One way to keep yourself occupied with this game is by embarking on the 3 Heart Quest. In this quest, you go through the game with ONLY 3 HEARTS. Not only that, you have to defeat Ganon and the 4 Link Clones. It does involve glitching the game, but MOST of this is possible on the actual GBA (I myself have done it). Here's the playlist:
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=CE6CE03FD2BAE044
The walkthrough, consisting of 25 parts can be divided into 5 categories:
Parts 1-10: Getting the items needed to complete the 4 Sword Dungeon.
Parts 11-14: Defeating the first 4 bosses in the 4 Sword Dungeon (you can enter this dungeon without linking up by glitching).
Parts 15-20: Getting the items needed to defeat Ganon.
Parts 21-23: Completing the extremely tough Ganon's Tower.
Parts 24-25: Defeating Ganon and the 4 Link Clones.
So, yeah, for all those who own A Link to the Past, and want a new challenge to the game, try out the 3 Heart Quest.
Oh, and please rate and comment on the vids. Thanks!
I assume you mean by my statement "MOST of this is possible on an actual GBA." There's one glitch I use that I haven't been able to execute on the real GBA. It's in Part 18- Getting the Second Pendant, at 4:25.
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It would be a stupid Tas to make because it would differ too little from the existing one.
And it would undoubtably have the annoying beeping the entire game.
But mostly, its just a bad sort of restriction to place on a run of this kind. It would contribute nothing of value.
It would be a stupid Tas to make because it would differ too little from the existing one.
Does the full SNES TAS even collect any hearts? I didn't think there were any Zelda TASes on this site that collected hearts.
TASing the GBA version of Link to the Past might be worthwhile for the extra couple of dungeons, though.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Hey, I'm not thinking of submitting this quest.
I just wanted to put it out there. You know, to advertise it, so to speak. Is this the right board to do so?
Hey, I'm not thinking of submitting this quest.
I just wanted to put it out there. You know, to advertise it, so to speak. Is this the right board to do so?
Strictly speaking, this should probably go in off-topic, then, because it is not a thread about TASing.
Even then I wouldn't expect it to get a lot of positive attention, because the three heart challenge is not a new concept by any means.
But at least the comments would be more relevant to your intent.
PS: I'd suggest that, rather than starting a new thread about this in off topic, you request that bisqwit move this thread.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
It would be a stupid Tas to make because it would differ too little from the existing one.
Does the full SNES TAS even collect any hearts? I didn't think there were any Zelda TASes on this site that collected hearts.
TASing the GBA version of Link to the Past might be worthwhile for the extra couple of dungeons, though.
You have to collect hearts to get through doors. Same goes for Zelda 1.
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The GBA version of Zelda 3 is statically recompiled from the SNES version. It therefore has the same bugs, so there is little point.
Capcom's GBA ports from SNES (Zelda 3, Breath of Fire) are statically recompiled, whereas Nintendo's ports (Super Mario World) are a new engine.
Joined: 6/13/2006
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noooooooope. You have an ocarina glitch warping trick in GBA that is not present in SNES. You can see erokky mention this in the SNES thread. However, I've tested and everything, from wobbling to pixelporting and other movement glitches are present in both versions. I think GBA might be good for its extra ocarina warp glitching, and faster scrolling text, and more dungeons. Unfortunately, it'd have to be done with a different category than SNES's any%, because then there's no point, like 100% or something.
If Exploration Glitch can be done on GBA, then wouldn't the 3 hearts quest be obsolete? If not, then I say this might be worth it.
You have an ocarina glitch warping trick in GBA that is not present in SNES.
What is this ocarina glitch warping trick? Is that the one involving the Pegasus Boots, where you get increased walk speed? Or some other thing I'm not familiar with?
Joined: 5/23/2006
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I would recommend doing a Palace of the Four Swords 3-heart quest over anything else. The palace of four swords is normally opened only by playing the 2-4 player game (4 swords) included with the GBA version. Link also faces 4 upgraded bosses and 1 new boss in the Palace of Four Swords. Also, there's a set of bonus credits at the end featuring "cinematics" of each dungeon and displaying a log of how many times the player used each item. I think it's the only good way to differentiate a run from the SNES version of LttP.
This FAQ explains the whole concept and general route very well. I've often thought of doing a run like this myself, but I really don't have the skills required to TAS LttP. I would be very interested in seeing a 3-heart palace of 4 swords TAS done.
Heh, I based my 3 Heart Quest playlist on Red Shifter's Minimalist Quest FAQ.
Anyway, what would be the exact rules for this TAS? I could probably go for it, but I need to know what I can and cannot do (like glitches, for example).
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As far as the actual goals are concerned, I think any useful glitch should be used to achieve the end result of getting to the second set of credits. However, if it turns out to be possible to skip the bosses, I think most of the entertainment value of the TAS would be gone. I would imagine a good priority list would be (in order of importance):
-Reach the credits
-Fight the bosses in the palace of four swords (i.e. complete the palace without skipping anything)
-Anything else, e.g. using the exploration glitch as little as possible
It's all really just my opinion, though... I've (practically) finished the 3-heart quest on my GBA, but I have no idea how a TAS would look. I'll see if I can put together a testrun for the TAS so we can gauge the entertainment value.
Good luck with the TAS - I've wanted to see this done for a long time, and it's great to see some interest in it!
Edit: About the ocarina glitches, I think they're just too far out of the way to be worth performing, since the Magic Mirror is necessary. In the 3-heart quest, the magic mirror is collected late in the run, essentially right before entering the palace of four swords.
Do you think it would be worth the trouble to obtain the Master Sword, instead of playing it easy with the Tempered Sword? I know it can be done even with 3 Hearts, but it requires major use of the Exploration Glitches. It makes the last boss battle in the 4 Sword Dungeon a lot tougher though.
I'll be going for a speed run, so I'll be using the Fire Pants Glitch. That is, if I knew how to actually perform it. Do you know how to make it work on an emulator, Chef? And if I go for the Master Sword, I might as well get the Pegasus Boots on the way.
As for the ocarina glitches, what exactly are they and how do you perform them? I probably won't be using them in my 3 Heart Speed Run, but I'm curious as to what they are.
Joined: 5/23/2006
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superbacon wrote:
Do you think it would be worth the trouble to obtain the Master Sword, instead of playing it easy with the Tempered Sword? I know it can be done even with 3 Hearts, but it requires major use of the Exploration Glitches. It makes the last boss battle in the 4 Sword Dungeon a lot tougher though.
I think the whole point of a run like this is to do it with 3 hearts (unless it's somehow more interesting to do it with 4 or more). Technically speaking, though, all that will happen by getting less upgrades for the sword is longer, i.e. more boring, boss battles.
superbacon wrote:
I'll be going for a speed run, so I'll be using the Fire Pants Glitch. That is, if I knew how to actually perform it. Do you know how to make it work on an emulator, Chef?
I'm a little confused... are you planning to make the movie tool-assisted, or without tools? I'm not exactly sure what you're planning to do.
For the glitch, I actually have no idea what you're referring to. Can you explain what the glitch is?
superbacon wrote:
As for the ocarina glitches, what exactly are they and how do you perform them? I probably won't be using them in my 3 Heart Speed Run, but I'm curious as to what they are.
This video and this video were posted in the SNES LttP thread regarding the ocarina glitches (only doable in the GBA version, by the way).
Also, I have the testrun ready:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1773088778/LttP%20Testrun1.vbm
I know you already have a lot of experience with the route and such, but I thought it would be a good idea to have a movie showing the entire process from start to finish.
I think the whole point of a run like this is to do it with 3 hearts (unless it's somehow more interesting to do it with 4 or more). Technically speaking, though, all that will happen by getting less upgrades for the sword is longer, i.e. more boring, boss battles.
OK, I'll go ahead and grab the Tempered Sword then.
Chef Stef wrote:
I'm a little confused... are you planning to make the movie tool-assisted, or without tools? I'm not exactly sure what you're planning to do.
For the glitch, I actually have no idea what you're referring to. Can you explain what the glitch is?
Sorry, I'm kinda new at this TAS thing. I'm not too sure what you mean by tool-assisted.
As for the Fire Pants Glitch, you execute it by alternating Up and Up+Down every frame. This makes Link walk faster. Isn't there an easier way to do this on an emulator without manually pressing Up and Up+Down every other frame?
Chef Stef wrote:
Your test run is quite good, but there are minor tweaks and fixes that can be made here and there so that it's faster. I didn't get a chance to see the whole thing though; Link started acting weird in DW4 and died. Must be something about my emulator...
Which exploration glitches should be allowed? The UDEG is used in Red Shifter's FAQ, but it easier and much more stable to use the Stairs EG instead. There are also faster routes through the exploration zone, but I'll showcase those in my testrun. Mine won't follow Red Shifter's guide as closely as yours does. It will also use the EGs a lot more, but that's just for speed.
Sorry, I'm kinda new at this TAS thing. I'm not too sure what you mean by tool-assisted.
TAS = Tool-Assisted Speedrun (or Superplay). :p
superbacon wrote:
As for the Fire Pants Glitch, you execute it by alternating Up and Up+Down every frame. This makes Link walk faster. Isn't there an easier way to do this on an emulator without manually pressing Up and Up+Down every other frame?
Not really. :/
That's kinda the point of TASing though: spend time going through the game advancing frame-by-frame for maximum optimization/efficiency. :p
It DOES take a long time, especially with long games such as Zelda, but the results look totally awesome once the product is complete. :)
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superbacon wrote:
Your test run is quite good, but there are minor tweaks and fixes that can be made here and there so that it's faster.
I never really intended it to be a "perfect" movie, just a simple route example. A TAS using that route would probably finish the game in less than half the time that I did.
superbacon wrote:
I didn't get a chance to see the whole thing though; Link started acting weird in DW4 and died. Must be something about my emulator...
If the checksums of the two roms match, then it's probably the emulator. I've been using VBA rerecording 19.3 (available on this site).
superbacon wrote:
Which exploration glitches should be allowed? The UDEG is used in Red Shifter's FAQ, but it easier and much more stable to use the Stairs EG instead. There are also faster routes through the exploration zone, but I'll showcase those in my testrun. Mine won't follow Red Shifter's guide as closely as yours does. It will also use the EGs a lot more, but that's just for speed.
I think it will be best to use any glitches necessary to finish the game as fast as possible. Stated succinctly, the goal would be "Reach the bonus credits as quickly as possible". Restricting the exploration glitches only forces more lengthy routes, decreasing the entertainment value of the TAS.
It would be great to see a testrun with the faster routes you mentioned - I haven't done much exploring with UDEG, my knowledge is really just restricted to what Red Shifter and Zanapher wrote in their FAQs. By the way, if you're new to TASing, you may find LttP to be a difficult game to work on as your first TAS. For optimization, it's necessary to use the wobbling ("Fire Pants") glitch for every up and left movement, the doorway trick seen in the current glitch TAS, and many other tricks that I'm now forgetting. However, if you want to go ahead with a TAS for this game, I and others will be happy to give feedback on your progress. Good luck :)
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Chef Stef wrote:
I think it will be best to use any glitches necessary to finish the game as fast as possible.
Unfortunately, same as with SNES ALttP, if you're going to do one form of EG, you might as well use one that beats the game the fastest. (I couldn't do left+up+right on my computer, so I just did a different way to get in the wall. Plus, I jumped up a wall! neato!) That's the problem with EG... if you're going to use it, it automatically makes the run obsolete as you can just do it the same way as the glitched run does. That's why the any% for SNES shouldn't use it.
Now, if you wanted to do the 4 swords thingie, make the goal "fastest to get the best ending". Then you can use EG, without worrying about using it in the castle first because that will only get the normal ending.
Now, if you wanted to do the 4 swords thingie, make the goal "fastest to get the best ending". Then you can use EG, without worrying about using it in the castle first because that will only get the normal ending.
That's what the current discussion was about. This would make the GBA run different from the SNES run.
But this brings back the question: should we use an EG to skip the 4 upgraded boss and go straight for the Link clones? It would technically be the "fastest way" to get to the secret ending, but like what's been said before, it won't be as entertaining as a run that includes the 4 upgraded bosses.
I can't do the speed run myself right now, but I expect to have time for it next week. Look for it.
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superbacon wrote:
But this brings back the question: should we use an EG to skip the 4 upgraded boss and go straight for the Link clones?
Is this even possible? I didn't think there was any way to jump into the palace besides the room with water and currents. But if it is possible, then it should definitely be used because a) it avoids the problem of "fuzzy goals", b) it's not that much of a loss to skip the extra bosses (this is debatable), and c) it eliminates the need to do all the extra item collection, which may or may not be more entertaining.
superbacon wrote:
I can't do the speed run myself right now, but I expect to have time for it next week. Look for it.
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Well, I wouldn't want to watch a 10 minute run where you EG into the 4 sword palace as fast as possible, fight those shadow links then be done. That palace looked quite nice, I'd much rather watch a 100% or no EG run or something that plays the 4 sword palace fully.
