Topic by theenglishman

Posted: 11/14/2008 1:21 AM

Post subject: Spyro: Year of the Dragon

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theenglishman

Active player (348)

Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 940
Location: Toronto, Canada

Now that Silhouette Mirage is out of the question, this excellent PS1 title has attracted my attention. Behold a very brief test run where I collect one egg in the hub world, two in Sunset Villa and then warp out. This warping business is going to be very important for route planning; since I think a 100% would be very boring to watch (not to mention long; the SDA 100p run is over FOUR HOURS), an any% will do, which also makes the routing much more interesting. Tell me what you think! (I haven't gotten the sound to work well on this either, but I think it's an exclusive issue. Please, anyone tell me if you can get all the sound working and PCSX, and if so, your PCSX specs).

My current project: Something mysterious (oooooh!) My username is all lower-case letters. Please get it right :(

Posted: 11/14/2008 2:22 AM

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MezzoDragon

He/Him

Joined: 5/27/2007
Posts: 120

A 100% TAS will be interesting as the collecting will be streamlined. An any% is okay, but 100% will be something I want to see. I hope this game, along with other PSX Spyro games, receive TAS runs; any% and 100%.

Posted: 11/14/2008 5:01 AM

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Apo123

Joined: 5/17/2008
Posts: 212
Location: Virginia

I'd love to see an any% of this game. Not too sure about 100%, though.

adelikat wrote:

It started off fairly tame, but as more balls entered the picture it sure got a lot more entertaining.

Posted: 11/14/2008 1:24 PM

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ElectroSpecter

Player (246)

Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA

Wouldn't a TAS of the Spyro games have to wait, since they were analog sensitive? I was messing around with a Ripto's Rage WIP a while ago and realized that I couldn't do very well at all without the use of the analog stick.

My Backloggery

Posted: 11/14/2008 2:39 PM

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theenglishman

Active player (348)

Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 940
Location: Toronto, Canada

ElectroSpecter wrote:

Wouldn't a TAS of the Spyro games have to wait, since they were analog sensitive?

There's no reason not to do a test run now. The analog control seems a bit tacked on (I just played a few more hours of YotD with analog controls and didn't work well at all). Most of your time is spent charging anyway with little to no reason to press forward anyway. You can usually get optimal angles with the D-pad like I tried to do with my test run (I didn't do very well because I'm still getting used to this whole PCSX business D: and I just wanted to see what it was like to TAS the game, really experimental). Also, anyone have luck on the sound issue?

My current project: Something mysterious (oooooh!) My username is all lower-case letters. Please get it right :(

Posted: 11/14/2008 11:46 PM

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pirate_sephiroth

Active player (315)

Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil

10 seconds until TEM starts another thread about some random game he finds interesting. 9, 8, 7...

"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate

Bisqwit wrote:

Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.

Posted: 4/28/2011 9:44 PM

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Hutch

Joined: 4/21/2011
Posts: 91

I've decided to begin a Spyro 3 TAS. I started properly this afternoon, after practicing for a bit on PSXjin and planning a route on my ps2 for a few days. Here is my very short WIP (I would wait to do more before showing this, but considering I'm totally new to this, if there's something I could be doing do improve this significantly then I'd like to know before I do hours and hours of work on this :) YT Link (awful AVI quality) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2DzKhRtf3Q Mediafire link to the pjm file http://www.mediafire.com/?8xitqzvz6oqvxg1 I'm aiming to get this published eventually, so if this isn't currently of submission standards please let me know. As for the run itself, I timed each and every of the cutscenes and non-spyro playing frame-perfect (I believe), and while I couldn't skip the Bianca rainbow intro, which I thought that I used to do on my ps2, I was able to skip the menu animation (which I couldn't do on my ps2). I assume this is because of the weird differences between NTSC and PAL version of the game (I own PAL and have been advised to TAS on NTSC). There are two sections which I could probably improve by 5 frames each I reckon (climbing up to first egg, and first two jumps of sunny villa). Sorry for the long post, thanks for your time :D Edit: It would've been great if I could've compared to theenglishman's test run, but his link seems to be now broken. And I forgot to mention that I tried to see if Bianca's scene was skippable, by gliding up to the portal, and landing just as you enter, but unfortunately it loaded as I exited the level, so there you go. Edit2: new YT link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRnFljOM9nk

Posted: 4/29/2011 10:49 PM

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lapogne36

Editor, Skilled player (1337)

Joined: 1/31/2010
Posts: 330
Location: France

Nice to see someone trying to TAS this game. Here is some links if you don't know them already : SDA thread James Bertoli's prototype run 3 runs in 1 IAS3 Grand Final (4 runs in 1)

Posted: 5/1/2011 12:54 PM
(Edited: 5/7/2011 9:42 PM)

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Hutch

Joined: 4/21/2011
Posts: 91

lapogne36 wrote:

Nice to see someone trying to TAS this game. Here is some links if you don't know them already : SDA thread James Bertoli's prototype run 3 runs in 1 IAS3 Grand Final (4 runs in 1)

Thanks for the links. I heard of bertollis run a long while ago, but never got around to watching it, but I'm watching it now and it's quite helpful, although I think the only gems I may collect are for the Molten Crater thieves, considering lots of easy gems can be collected in Sheila's Alp and Cloud Spires. So far in Sunrise Springs, I think with TAS I may do the skateboarding challenges, perhaps do the Sun egg in Cloud Spires, and use the swimming in the air glitch for Seashell shore (although this may be pretty close timewise to without. I also saw the I'm a speedrunner 3 final vid a few days ago, but I'm not sure it's that helpful, but the SDA thread certainly was. How's your Spyro 1 TAS coming along by the way? Can you easily get under an hour do you think?, I reckon this one will be pretty damn close to one hour. Edit: Forgot to mention the obvious - I'll be using swimming glitch to get Sheila early, obviously. Edit2: I've made a list of the eggs I'm collecting, and I have 94 that I'm certainly getting, and here's the list of the eggs that could make up those 6, some with the time that it takes to get them. Sunny Villa: Lizards 1,2 2:40 (using an easy strat, but TAS could easily go 10 seconds faster) Spooky Swamp: Sleepyhead 1:10, 2 bomb challenges 2:40 Fireworks Factory: Both Agent 9 challenges, 2:20 for both (according to Ratchet5. I suck at these Doom levels so I tried to test this, but I sucked and kept failing) Frozen Altars: 2nd Bentley boxing match (probably could do it in one round) Crystal Islands: Whack-a-mole (probably too slow) Haunted Tomb: Tank Challenge 1, 2 (I reckon only the first challenge would be worth it).

Posted: 5/7/2011 12:46 PM

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lapogne36

Editor, Skilled player (1337)

Joined: 1/31/2010
Posts: 330
Location: France

You should post an accurate list of all eggs you are going to get, it will help a lot in the route planing

Posted: 5/7/2011 4:36 PM

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Hutch

Joined: 4/21/2011
Posts: 91

lapogne36 wrote:

You should post an accurate list of all eggs you are going to get, it will help a lot in the route planing

World 1: Sunrise Spring – 5/5 Sunny Villa – 5/6 Cloud Spires – 6/6 Sheila’s Alp – 3/3 Molten Crater – 5/6 {300 gems to Moneybags} (Not Tiki heads) Seashell Shore – 4/6 (Not Sheila castle (game freezes while using “practically dead” glitch)) and not boat battle) Mushroom Speedway – 2/3 (not Race) Buzz – 1/1 Total: 29 World 2: Midday Gardens – 5/5 Icy Peak – 5/6 – (Not Nancy ice-skating) Sgt Byrd’s Base – 2/3 – (not Hummingbirds) Spooky Swamp – 3/6 – [Sleepyhead 1:10, 2 bomb challenges 2:40] Bamboo Terrace – 4/6 – (Not flame challenge and not Bentley) Country Speedway – 0/3 Enchanted Towers – 2/6 (normal and island) Spike – 1/1 Total: 22 World 3: Evening Lake – 5/5 Fireworks Factory – 3/6 – [Both Agent 9 challenges, 2:20 for both] (not dragons) Lost Fleet – 2/6 (normal and acid swimming) Bentley’s Outpost – 3/3 Frozen Altars – 4/6 – [Bentley 2] (not cat challenge) Charmed Ridge – 3/6 (Not beanstalk, not sgt. Byrd) Honey Speedway – 0/3 Scorch – 1/1 Total: 21 World 4: Midnight Mountain – 5/5 Crystal Islands – 5/6 – [Whack-a-mole] Desert Ruins – 5/6 (not manta-ray) Haunted Tomb – 3/6 – [Tank Challenge 1, 2] Dino Mines – 4/6 (not Agent 9) Harbour Speedway – 0/3 Agent 9 Labs – 0/3 Total: 22 Total: 96 (___) describe the eggs missed out (except for enchanted towers and lost fleet it's what I am getting). [___] describes possible eggs out of the last 4 I need (I've gotten both skateboarding eggs now and am up to the start of Sheila's Alp). Only paying Moneybags once for the two molten crater thieves as they are quick eggs and 300 gems is easy to get. Edit: I have an annoying problem with the game while testing cloud spires. If the last egg I collect before the egg on the island is the egg in the alcove, then the egg on the island is uncollectable :/ I could easily solve this by taking a slower route and going back on myself a bit, but it is rather weird? I'll go and get advice from the IRC chat tomorrow.

Posted: 5/23/2011 4:57 PM

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Hutch

Joined: 4/21/2011
Posts: 91

Hi, I'm back. As I said before, I was having a bit of trouble with an egg in Cloud Spires: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXKpiY8QjBU Description C+Ved: I came across this problem a few weeks ago (made me quit TAS'ing it for a bit, I couldn't work out how to get around it). But I finally realised it had something to do with the order in which I collect the eggs in the level. If the end of level egg is collected before the in the corner egg, regardless of other eggs collected in between or after them, then the island egg won't hatch - how annoying. Although I can easily get the island egg first and then get the in the corner egg after (tested - works), this would be significantly slower, and horrible to watch (many people who would watch the run would probably say 'why didn't he get that one first' etc. This video is mainly for the people at TASVideos, but anyone else can suggest what I should do, e.g., skipping one egg, or just have a longer route with both eggs. Before you ask, I tried TAS'ing the whirlwind to get to the island egg early for about an hour a while ago and failed. I'm about to try it again with the camera facing the other way so I can use down and right to turn quickly, but considering I'm only turning for a few frames, I expect it'll be impossible. Edit: Just tested, once again, so painfully close, but I just can't quite make it, GRAGH. So, basically, here's my question: In the interest of the the fastest TAS possible, should I skip the egg on the island, or take a bit longer route (even though this would make this part of the run a bit nonsensical to those who wouldn't originally realise why it was done slower)?

Posted: 5/23/2011 11:08 PM

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Torn338

Former player

Joined: 3/27/2010
Posts: 270

Hutch wrote:

Hi, I'm back. As I said before, I was having a bit of trouble with an egg in Cloud Spires: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXKpiY8QjBU Description C+Ved: I came across this problem a few weeks ago (made me quit TAS'ing it for a bit, I couldn't work out how to get around it). But I finally realised it had something to do with the order in which I collect the eggs in the level. If the end of level egg is collected before the in the corner egg, regardless of other eggs collected in between or after them, then the island egg won't hatch - how annoying. Although I can easily get the island egg first and then get the in the corner egg after (tested - works), this would be significantly slower, and horrible to watch (many people who would watch the run would probably say 'why didn't he get that one first' etc. This video is mainly for the people at TASVideos, but anyone else can suggest what I should do, e.g., skipping one egg, or just have a longer route with both eggs. Before you ask, I tried TAS'ing the whirlwind to get to the island egg early for about an hour a while ago and failed. I'm about to try it again with the camera facing the other way so I can use down and right to turn quickly, but considering I'm only turning for a few frames, I expect it'll be impossible. Edit: Just tested, once again, so painfully close, but I just can't quite make it, GRAGH. So, basically, here's my question: In the interest of the the fastest TAS possible, should I skip the egg on the island, or take a bit longer route (even though this would make this part of the run a bit nonsensical to those who wouldn't originally realise why it was done slower)?

Uhm that's quite odd to be honest :p about the egg. Well, if its any% then definitely skip the egg (unless no alternatives are faster, which is unlikely), but if you 100%, I suppose that's self explanatory you need to get both eggs. If the option of island egg, then corner egg works, then I guess you should do that, it is slower yeah, but if that's the only way to get it, then that is necessary right? I hope I made that clear... >.>

Posted: 5/24/2011 12:02 AM

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exileut

Joined: 2/15/2009
Posts: 329

I'm not familiar with the game. Is the egg on the island required for your run goals? Are you asking if you should make a speed/entertainment tradeoff?

Working on: Legend of Legaia, Vagrant Story

Posted: 5/24/2011 9:48 AM

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Hutch

Joined: 4/21/2011
Posts: 91

exileut wrote:

I'm not familiar with the game. Is the egg on the island required for your run goals? Are you asking if you should make a speed/entertainment tradeoff?

In my Any% run, I need 100 eggs to unlock the final boss battle. The first route of my video shows the optimal route to collect/hatch the three main eggs of the level, but the last egg doesn't hatch. As torn was saying, even though getting the island egg first (and then going directly to the corner egg before exiting the level) will be slower, it'll still be faster than ignoring one of the eggs, and collecting a different egg later on, so I suppose I'll do that then. It's really quite annoying that I can't skip half of the route to the island egg by using the whirlwind - it would've solved the problem and saved time while I was at it.

Posted: 5/24/2011 7:46 PM

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lapogne36

Editor, Skilled player (1337)

Joined: 1/31/2010
Posts: 330
Location: France

Have you try this with PSXJin 2.0.2 and 2.0.1 ? Maybe it's an emulation glitch, because I have asked your question to some skill players and they don't know what happened.

Posted: 5/24/2011 9:17 PM

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Hutch

Joined: 4/21/2011
Posts: 91

lapogne36 wrote:

Have you try this with PSXJin 2.0.2 and 2.0.1 ? Maybe it's an emulation glitch, because I have asked your question to some skill players and they don't know what happened.

I'm using PSXjin 2.0.1, so I might try it with my ps2 (I'm such an idiot for not thinking of the possibility of an emulation glitch before), buut, I have one day free tomorrow, then 3 important exams over the next two days, then I'm away for a few days, so unless I check this quickly in a break tomorrow, this'll have to wait until next Monday/Tuesday. Just checked this on my PAL game, and didn't encounter the error. I expect there's a small possibility that the glitch is occurring because I'm using an NTSC rom, but it's probably an emulation glitch. I'll try using PSXjin 2.0.2 once I'm free, but I don't see why a new release of the emulator would fix this, can anyone explain to me? Don't expect a response until about a week from now, I won't have access to a PC.

Posted: 5/31/2011 4:43 PM

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Hutch

Joined: 4/21/2011
Posts: 91

Sorry for the double post, I know I can edit, but then no-one will see that there's a new post on the forum index. My WIP so far. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZZp4LVZeW0 Description copied and pasted as before: Last time I used the record AVI function on PSXjin - but it took forever to do. So I lazily used Camstudio, plus the playback function, and then used WMM to double the movie speed (which makes most of the movie look normal speed). Just uploading this to show how much I've done so far (up to a few weeks ago when I took a break). I'll probably redo/start off again from frame 20600 ish, as I was really lazy with the gliding sections (should've pointed downwards and pressed X a lot), and the quicker swimming in air glitch (thanks to Lapogne for using it in his Spyro 2 run, so that I knew it existed) wasn't too hard to pull off. I've yet to download the 2.0.2 release of PSXjin to see if the Cloud Spires egg glitch somehow works again. Some of the skating sections may look rough, e.g. start of the first egg, where I have to weave like that to get the required momentum to get on the roof, and where I take wide turns to manipulate those damn lizards. Also, if you're wondering, the randomness after Sunny Villa second egg is no slower than a clean charge a bit wider (it's like that because I had to hex edit from Bianca chat all the way to the end of the Sunny Villa). I didn't bother to record the bit that I've already uploaded to youtube. Edit: forgot to mention that both of the skating routes are practically equal in length (3000 frames, or ~50 seconds) which is great, because I was going to mention the speed/entertainment tradeoff (I think you'll agree that seeing the same route twice is going to be boring), but thankfully this isn't really an issue, imo, but if you disagree please say.

Posted: 6/2/2011 4:25 PM

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Hutch

Joined: 4/21/2011
Posts: 91

Sorry for the triple post ;) I'm going to restart my run, as although it's a shame to leave out skateboarding challenges - they probably are a slightly slower option that two other eggs elsewhere, and it means the Automated Challenge Tuning doesn't kick in to the harder difficulty until after I collect that egg in Cloud Spires (and also, it'd be horrible to redo both skating challenges, and very hard to optimise too). I'm also restarting because there's several points in the run I can improve by a few frames, aswell as missing out one treasure box that I opened for some random reason, and going to cloud Spires before Sheila's Alp, which will mean I don't have to speak to Hunter as much. If you were wondering, although there are two ways to skip Bianca's speech, it's only temporary, as once you exit Sunny Villa, there is no way to avoid it. I've found one very small time-saver in Cloud-Spires (hint-flame). Here's the updated (and probably final) egg list: World 1: Sunrise Spring – 5/5 (interspersed between levels) Sunny Villa – 3/6 (not skateboarding, not sheila) Cloud Spires – 6/6 Sheila’s Alp – 3/3 Molten Crater – 5/6 {300 gems to Moneybags} (Not Tiki heads) Seashell Shore – 4/6 (Not Sheila castle (game freezes while using “practically dead” glitch)) and not boat battle) Mushroom Speedway – 2/3 (not Race) Buzz – 1/1 Total: 29 World 2: Midday Gardens – 5/5 (once again, eggs interspersed between levels) Icy Peak – 5/6 (Not Nancy ice-skating) Sgt Byrd’s Base – 2/3 (not Hummingbirds) Spooky Swamp – 5/6 (not Sleepyhead) Bamboo Terrace – 4/6 (Not flame challenge and not Bentley) Enchanted Towers – 2/6 (normal and island) Country Speedway – 0/3 (haven't decided order in which to do levels here yet) Spike – 1/1 Total: 24 World 3: Evening Lake – 5/5 Charmed Ridge – 3/6 (Not beanstalk, not sgt. Byrd) Lost Fleet – 2/6 (normal and acid swimming) Fireworks Factory 5/6 (not dragons) Bentley’s Outpost 3/3 Frozen Altars – 5/6 (not cat challenge) Honey Speedway – 0/3 Scorch – 1/1 Total: 24 World 4: Midnight Mountain – 5/5 Crystal Islands – 5/6 (not Whack-a-mole) Desert Ruins – 5/6 (not manta-ray) Haunted Tomb – 4/6 (not Tank Challenge 2) (not Agent 9) Dino Mines – 4/6 (not Agent 9) Harbour Speedway – 0/3 Agent 9 Labs – 0/3 Total: 23 (levels are completed in this order) Total: 100 Edit:Forgot to mention, this is how close I was to a 20-30 time-saver:

Posted: 6/22/2011 6:59 PM

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Hutch

Joined: 4/21/2011
Posts: 91

Just making this post to link to the WIP video I made of my TAS so far. Unfortunately, I once again encountered the emulation glitch with the egg after restarting the whole run, and altering the egg route. Note that if I chose not to go in the superfly minilevel, the ACT (Automatic Challenge Tuning) would not turn on, meaning the enemy would not appear, and the emulation glitch wouldn't occur. So, this TAS is hold, whether permanently, or temporarily, although if I do come back to it, it will probably be in a very long time. Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKT0tWXosiA

Posted: 6/23/2011 12:37 AM

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lapogne36

Editor, Skilled player (1337)

Joined: 1/31/2010
Posts: 330
Location: France

Since this egg doesn't want to hatch, you should exchange it for the last egg of Crystal Islands. About your WIP, you should have get the 3 gems at 2:33 while the door was close, and you should have speak to Hunter before going to Cloud Spires because it will save a lot of time.

Posted: 6/23/2011 11:05 AM

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Hutch

Joined: 4/21/2011
Posts: 91

lapogne36 wrote:

Since this egg doesn't want to hatch, you should exchange it for the last egg of Crystal Islands. About your WIP, you should have get the 3 gems at 2:33 while the door was close, and you should have speak to Hunter before going to Cloud Spires because it will save a lot of time.

Although I admit I should've gotten the green gem, I didn't notice that, but getting the red gem would lose time, and isn't worth it, especially when I can get all the gems I want in Sheila's alp without losing any time. I'll consider swapping the egg route, thanks for giving your opinion on the fastest alternative, I agree the whack-a-mole could probably be quite fast, but it's such a shame to purposely take a slower route due to a problem that isn't actually based in the game, and only on the emulator. If I do continue, I'll do so in a few weeks, and when I get to certain points, such as Midday Gardens Homeworld and Spike's Boss battle, I'd appreciate help with route planning and luck manipulation (the latter of which I have no clue how to do). Edit: I forgot to mention that I didn't speak to Hunter on purpose, because by watching the IAS video, I saw that you only need to speak to hunter once to get the egg - so when I come out of Cloud Spires, Hunter will automatically jump over to my platform, and as I glide to the cave entrance, he'll jump automatically once again and the talk to me and give me the egg. Edit2: Forgot to say on video that from 3:20 to 3;25, I don't press the X button once, as the elevator makes me jump with pressing x in a similar way to the proxy jump I demonstrated. Just a little tidbit of random info.

Posted: 3/3/2012 5:42 PM

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Hutch

Joined: 4/21/2011
Posts: 91

Time for a bump! With crash41596 starting on a Spyro 3 TAS, I got interested in it again. He made this long wip, before realising he didn't need all those gems: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYXcF-Xz5fs I then convinced him to move to psxjin, but we had problems around a week ago when both of our tases of the first slope in sunny villa kept desyncing when we transferred the .pjm to each other, and we haven't spoken since, so I don't know if the run will continue, as I don't have the spare time to TAS the game myself, although I enjoy doing a bit here and there, and while he may continue with making it himself, I'm wary of how he tends not to try and optimise quite as much, although he's a frequent speedrunner of the game and knows it inside out. Here's a TAS I made of Icy Peak for fun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAIqXMme2k4

Posted: 3/4/2012 12:19 AM

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lapogne36

Editor, Skilled player (1337)

Joined: 1/31/2010
Posts: 330
Location: France

Since this game has many emulations issues because of its protections, it needs some specifics patchs, so I am pretty sure the problem come from iso differences. Each of you should try to "obtain" this iso in the same way (and if you do, feel free to PM me about the way you get it).

Posted: 3/31/2012 11:00 PM
(Edited: 3/31/2012 11:09 PM)

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