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Posted: 12/18/2006 12:31 AM

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Comicalflop

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I don't know how the writing is going to look, but it probably shouldn't happen in an area where I have to move quickly. Maybe if I'm sitting around doing nothing or running straight for a very long time. I'd have to get Floyd and experiment heavily before I can figure out the possiblities of writing. Yep, that looks like the official guide. Awesome. Tribal/weapon/ammo locations are going to be the best, so that I can draw straight lines and use it to plan where to move when. Maps of individual rooms would be cool too. thanks for spending time to find this. I'm 3/4 through the second to last room in SS Anubis. This was a much shorter stage to do. I don't know if I'll be done tonight, by tomorrow more likely.

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Posted: 12/18/2006 3:56 AM

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Comicalflop

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I know I said I'd be done with this tomorrow, but I ended up finishing tonight. Yay! SS Anubis Done This was WAY better looking than Goldwood. And I loved making it way more. But, I know I'm going to hate Tawfret. Some notes about the level: (SPOILER. READ THIS AFTER VIEWING.) First note: EVERYTHING that I do is done for a reason. I'll explain the major ones. There's a lot more squarish rooms, and not long winding passageways like in Goldwood. Therefore, the fastest way is to make straight lines between each "goal" i.e. enemies to kill, stuff to collect, etc. which I was able to do most of the time. I combine straight running segments plus strafe cornering (my term for when I strafe in a circle to round a corner) in order to get to places as fast as possible. For rooms where I have to kill drones, they do hide. Specifically in the room with 5 headshot drones. I chose the fastest path from one drone to kill to the next, and occassionally I'd pass by one and go back to kill him. This is done for a reason; no fastest path to that hiding drone could be found. First room: Right off the bat jump up crates to get to ammunition and gemini health upgrade. You get to see through the floors, but it goes by fast so you'd probably miss that unless you were looking for it. Corners were rounded perfectly. 2nd room: I had to redo this room 3-4 times in order to get everything perfect. I shoot the first drone, and make missed shots with the machine gun so that's it's recoil hits the big one earlier. (you'll see that a lot in this run.) I then snipe the two sniper drones (I initially missed a snipe shot, so had to redo that), killed a drone with an explosive barrel, then aimed and killed the last drone so that I don't have to run over to him. Then run and turn a sharp corner to get the perfect angle to deactivate the door cell, then grab some ammo because I was a little low. 3rd Room: Huge room, I was running from one drone to another with perfect head shots until I realized one drone was hiding. There is only one frame where he peeks behind a corner, then runs away again, and I headshoted him before he could hide again. So, this room is very solid, although took some damage that I wouldn't have liked. But meh, I gain that back with a health upgrade later. 4th room: This one looks like a huge mistake, but bear with me. Going right, killing those three drones, getting the tribal and dismantling the door cell block was done the fastest possible. (note: all 3 drones were killed in time with the music. That was unintentional.) I then tried to haul ass to catch the moving platform, but I tested this IMMENSELY and it is impossible to get. So, I shoot the two other cell door blocks (the sniped one from far away looks bad, but: I have time to spare, and I could not get the perfect angle except for what I did because it is so far away. It takes a little while to aim at the block, but I got it, and it doesn't really lose any time.) I was playing around with the edge, and discovered that I could practically be standing on mid air. So I have fun sniping the block below me, then procede to roll around and have fun on mid-air. All this playing around is because I have to wait for the moving platform. I jump on the platform, and angle Juno to look at the audience. :) I then jump onto the next platform at the optimal time, and shoot the 3 out of 4 drones (the yellow one I don't have to kill.) when rounding corners one of the drones is "suffering" (couldn't be helped with the way I was optimally strafing), so I put him out of his misery without losing time. (sorry PETA.) 5th room: I was going to shoot the cell door block first, but forgot. I instead hauled to the left to get to the cell door block on the left very fast. (and dodge some mines that aren't actually visible. eek!) I then get the gemini health upgrade, and go through the second glass window. This glass window, and the platform I turn around on is required to trigger the flying drones. I shoot them quickly, then run to the bottom, getting a slight boost from the treadmill (jumping on that treadmill first doesn't give me a time saver, unfortunately.) I then run towards the now open door, and shoot the cell door block up high that I was going to shoot first. Time wise, it saves a bit of time, because getitng that block last makes it on the way towards the door. 7th room: Freed the tribals at optimal times. jumping into the cell and out again while turning direction was very difficult, while keeping the c buttons held down for strafing, so it's optimal. some of the cutscene with Vela was black, similar to a cutscene in majora's Mask. So it won't turn up in the AVI either I don't think. phew. That was a VERY fun stage, and really fast. Only took two days to do as well. Beats the SDA run by ~1 minute. Could've saved more if I could've grabbed the moving platform, but I couldn't grab it in time unfortunately.

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Posted: 12/18/2006 4:47 AM

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zdk1

Joined: 12/17/2006
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Location: New, Jersey

That sounds good, though I can't watch it at the moment, and won't be able to for a bit. How is this for a proof of concept of the map scans? They're kind of hard to follow the way they're layed out in the book, and I attempted to organize them in a somewhat logical manner. Normally, there'd be 2-3 maps per page interspersed amongst tons of text and random images. I added a few blue connecting lines when it was less than obvious where rooms connected to each other. too big, too small, weird format? complain now before I get to the rest of them. 3000x2000 pixel jpg ~850kb anubis I imagine these would be more useful for areas you haven't already gone through. Tawfret will be made soon, and its all layered so I can change it pretty easily if you don't like my current way of formatting.

Posted: 12/18/2006 4:55 AM

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Comicalflop

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This is good, especially since i can zoom in! The SS Anubis pic there is good because I have to revisit every world/ship more than once anyways. But yes, if you can scan Tawfret that'd be great, since that place is a huge maze, I can't go on the SDA run alone to get faster times. Plus it's dark, I hope I'll be able to see well enough to kill all the drones. I wonder, if at times if I'm offline, that big pictures of each room can be scanned, although I'd imagine that'd be hard for you, so maybe I can zoom in save specific cropped rooms.

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Posted: 12/18/2006 5:22 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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Increasing the resolution of the graphics plugin can help you see in the dark better sometimes.

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Posted: 12/18/2006 5:30 AM

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Comicalflop

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Hm good to know. Although I noticed in many parts of SS Anubis and Tawfret it was brighter than in the SDA AVI, so I think I'll be ok, especially if I look closely at the AVI and the maps. I wonder, if maps are accesible, and rerecording, if I can skip the flare and just run around (optimally) in the dark? is it needed elsewhere/is it essential?

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Posted: 12/18/2006 5:33 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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Nope, don't think it's essential for anything, as long as you can find your way around.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 12/18/2006 5:47 AM

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bkDJ

Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215

I don't know if it will cause desyncs or not, but running around in the dark could be made easier if you turned on wire frames. BTW I just watched the wip and it looks great. Is a video needed or can everyone play it just fine?

Posted: 12/18/2006 5:52 AM

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Comicalflop

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1) where do I change resolution? 2) how do I turn on wire frames? 3) would either cause problems? it'd be good to know how to do both, in case I need either one. I don't know if DeHackEd is going to make an AVI, but you can encode a vid if you want.

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Posted: 12/18/2006 5:57 AM

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bkDJ

Joined: 7/26/2006
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comicalflop wrote:

1) where do I change resolution? 2) how do I turn on wire frames? 3) would either cause problems?

1) options>video> there's a drop down box. 2) Oh nevermind, gln64 doesn't have that option. jabo 1.6 does in options>video>advanced>wireframe rendering. Note that I watched the video using jabo1.6 and dind't have any sync issues. I wouldn't recommend changing it in the middle of the run though, but like I said you could try it out and see if it helps and doesn't desync. 3) the first one shouldn't the second might. you'll have to test, but the game is old enough that I don't think there will be any problems.

Posted: 12/18/2006 6:16 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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So does it matter which path you choose now? Do you waste any frames choosing Juno over Vela here?

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 12/18/2006 6:27 AM
(Edited: 12/18/2006 7:15 AM)

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Comicalflop

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Well, I think choosing Juno to get Floyd is preferred, especially if he's going to be a major time saver it seems right to get him as soon as possible. Route wise, Marshmallow chooses Juno and does Tawfret then Mizar's palace, and then starts on Vela. and 4 stages later uses Lupus. Whic is what Twisted Eye's route also does. Speaking of which: Twisted Eye I'm beginning to get a clearer sense of the route, but it seems a little simplistic. could you expand on it, by (unless it's too long) to write individual goals (i.e. collect 2 tribals, kill 3 drones to trigger door, get a weapon, get a key, etc. per room) of each room within the stages/worlds? Oh, I love this game. Just putting it out there.

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Posted: 12/18/2006 7:08 AM

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zdk1

Joined: 12/17/2006
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from now on, new images will just be listed here tawfret is up. Its much bigger so I split it into four. One for bog, two for bridge (Floyd!!!!), and one for castle. the bigger rooms have more real estate now. a couple notes. In bridge2 one of the Floyd icons got partially cut off by the scan, it should be on the ledge in the upper right hand side of the map. in castle C, your destination is the door marked J, which will take you to the Boss fight. in Bridge B the only trigger for the life force door is the group of flying enemies right at the end near the second invincibility icon. No more scans for a few days as I'll be away from my scanner. I may take a look at Twisted_evil's route and try to elaborate a bit more on it (with permission). I probably won't suggest route changes since I don't remember the route very well, but I'll see about listing door triggers and specific tribal locations.

Posted: 12/18/2006 7:28 AM

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Comicalflop

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Haha excellent. Tawfret is huge, and marshmallow decided to do pretty much the whole thing in one go. (I don't think he revisits here, except I believe for the first 10 Tribals in the first area.) I think I need to look at the route and watch the whole movie from start to finish a few times to fully understand all the places that are revisited and why. Becuase of tribals and ship parts I'm guessing. No scanning for a few days? no problem, Tawfret is going to take me a few days anyways. At least the second half will, coincidentily once Floyd is obtained. (and half of the reason for that has nothing to do with Floyd, but in that there is a lot of lack of action in the first half, and when Floyd is reached it's going to be tougher for me to do, and it's the castle so tons of enemies.) Does anybody know ALL of the mechanics/controls of Floyd? I know start on the second controller activates him, and I'm guessing R is his manual aim, z is fire, he has no weapon switch, but does he split the screen, does he overlap the screen, can he move independantly or is he tied to Juno's movement, etc.? Does it look exactly like the screen for Floyd missions? (the only time marshmallow uses him) speaking of which, plot wise despite a huge asteroid heading towards Earth piloted by Mizar, why does the Tribals' leader ask me to save all the Tribals, at the expense of Earth? "oh, waste time and save my people first, even though it might make it too late to save your planet!" so, his Ewok people are more important to him than us. Really motivates me to rescue them! What a selfish bastard. If I get the chance in real time that's not interrupted by a cutscene I'm going to give him a passing shot from one of my guns. Oh hey, just a thought, this is probably wrong. As soon as you get an item (weapon, ship part, key) you have it saved. Would it save time to exit a level via the start screen (can you do that?) if you aren't going to save Tribals in a particular level?

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Posted: 12/18/2006 7:45 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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I think so, but give it a try wherever you're thinking of just to make sure. Floyd is really easy to use. You don't control his position at all, just where he aims. Just hit Start on the second controller, and you'll get an extra targeting cursor you can move with the analog stick. Fire at that spot with Z. Also, Floyd makes beepy noises whenever there are enemies around in the room you're entering.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 12/18/2006 7:52 AM

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zdk1

Joined: 12/17/2006
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Location: New, Jersey

Floyd hovers above Juno's shoulder. His movement is tied to Juno's movement. As soon as you activate him, his cursor appears on the screen (no need to press R or any other button) and you just aim it with the second controller's analog stick. z to shoot. Floyd can rotate pretty freely, and you can get him to shoot at Juno, or even behind Juno. No screen splitting, just an extra crosshair on the screen. Also, he makes an persistent whirring propellor sound when activated. Floyd mini games are the only times when you directly control him. First person mode, A is forward, B is back, and z is shoot. To exit a level, start->Map and you can choose the world you want to go to. I think you probably do get credit for items other than tribals but I'm not 100% on that. Also, start->character and switch characters.

Posted: 12/18/2006 7:56 AM

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Comicalflop

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Yes, I knew about him beeping when enemies are nearby. Shame that he can't independetly move, but I guess that does simplify things for me without detracting too much from time being saved. He leaves a blue trail when flying fast, I assume it's this that he can spell words with, but if his movement can't be independently controlled how can you spell words? ok, you're description of Floyd's workings makes sense. I'm probably going to release a WIP of the first half up to getting Floyd and exiting that room, and then an official WIP of the entire level. I might release a demo of the castle gates playing around with Floyd, so that you all can verify if I'm taking Floyd's abilities to the TAS extremes that he's most likely capable of. Before I start Tawfret I'm going to redo the very last segment of SS Anubis after Vela's cutscene, because I can save probably save a second by altering the order of the three remaining Tribals to reduce distance running. So don't make a savestate of after the Vela cutscene.

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Posted: 12/18/2006 8:01 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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comicalflop wrote:

He leaves a blue trail when flying fast, I assume it's this that he can spell words with, but if his movement can't be independently controlled how can you spell words?

I don't know, I guess they meant maybe you can burn words into the walls with his lasers if you're ever forced to stand around for a while.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 12/18/2006 8:43 AM
(Edited: 12/18/2006 8:53 AM)

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Comicalflop

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Stand around for a while? Bah! I keep the TAS lightning fast and action packed the whole time! Nah just kidding, there will be times when I have to stand around, mostly for running in straigt long distances I'm guessing though. But I guess Twisted Eye knows what he's talking about for writing words, so I'll wait until I get Floyd and wait for him to explain what his idea for spelling words was. I'm actually going to redo the entire last room section, because the path that I take for the 7 Tribals + Vela is actually not optimal. I created a new path and calculated that, instead of doing diagonals, to instead after each cell to hit the cell next to it, and then run straight accross to the next one. Like so: *________* | | *________|* ..................| ..................| *_______ |* | | *________* (Looks weird, but the .'s are to make sure I can complete the path. Basically, imagine a very straight lined snake, who goes foward, then right, then right, then left, then left, then right, then right, then left... etc.) This new route is, according to my calculations ~16% faster than what I did (I calculated using triangle math, and making very basic sketches with square note pad paper in order to estimate the entire distance in units related to the square size, and found my new path to have a total unit distance traveled of 16% less. My drawings were very bad and only used to make easy calculations, but the theory is there by running diagonally less, since in essence I was crossing to the left and right of the room twice for each two cells. So I'll just copy/paste a new .m64, use that path, and see if the time is shorter, which is easy to do because once I enter the ship it'll say how many in-game seconds passed. I'd need to beat 2:57 for the new path to be faster.

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Posted: 12/18/2006 8:48 AM
(Edited: 12/18/2006 9:13 AM)

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bkDJ

Joined: 7/26/2006
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well I'm not as good of an encoder as dehacked, and I suck at decimating dupe frames but here's my attempt. http://tas.monotoli.org/mov/jfg/ I used jabo 1.6 and if your player can play mkv's correctly then it will see the 16:9 flag I set and play it in widescreen. (Is this the first widescreen game to be TASed?) EDIT: apparantly jabo has more cons than pros for this game though so if I do anything else it will be with an openGL plugin. ALso widescreen is really only applicable to cutscenese, not gameplay. Oh well.

Posted: 12/18/2006 8:53 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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Isn't Widescreen turned off in gameplay by default? What's the point?

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 12/18/2006 9:31 AM

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Comicalflop

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There's a kind of tradeoff... when strafing or running, turning direction 180 degrees is bad, because the characters have little friction. You see me slide a few times when changing direction in Goldwood and SS Anubis, and at that crate I decided to jump off and do a direct 180 degree turn. It resulted in an 'oof' landing, which wastes as much time as sliding around in little friction would. Since it was atop a crate, I decided that jumping and going the opposite direction was better than sliding and not facing the direction I wanted to go. I'll of course try to be careful that as many paused landings do not occur, although some shortcuts require them like falling from a great height. It'll be situational for instances where I have to change direction, sometimes I'll slide around, sometimes I'll jump. I'm glad that you like the WIP so far. I'm hoping to either match or outpace the speed of SS Anubis in levels to come. Floyd should definetly do that, and the level layout will have a big factor on that. (like the first half of Tawfret vs. the 2nd half, or say, spaceship stages vs. cerulean or some other world with wide open spaces.) About the .mkv... quality wise it was great (although not nearly as perfect as DeHackEd's AVI, but still good) and it was kinda fun to see it in widescreen (although the end AVI definetly shouldn't, it did seem to stretch the image slightly.) However, the .mkv suffered graphically. the crosshair was altered, and for all texts numbers and letters didn't appear, so how are audiences supposed to know what's being said or that I have limited ammo? That was of course due to using Jabo's instead of Gln64 I'm assuming.

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Posted: 12/18/2006 9:38 AM

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