Emulator: Mupen 64 Rerecording, v 0.5.0(Note: Antids-mupen was used, so playback wont work with normal version)
Aim: Fastest overall time
Abuses programming errors
Manipulates luck
Takes damage to save time
Plays on easiest difficulty
This run uses a few minor programming glitches:
Ending level roughly a frame too early so that the game thinks you completed all objectives but your final time isn't saved, you can still proceed to next level though. This was only used in Facility level.
By shooting Janus in statue level you can make him talk faster.
In the beginning of this run i use control style 1.1 to avoid an extra pause, this made TASing the first 4 levels rather difficult and in surface level i loose roughly a second by not being able to aim down fast enough. Saves a good amount of time overall though.
adelikat: Hard mode in encouraged by site rules because in general it leads to more entertaining TASes. This game is no exception.
Using easy mode because WR unassisted times are done on easy mode might (emphasis on "might") be reasonable argument. But it is hard to make that argument when you fail to even match the unassisted times!
I am rejecting this movie on the grounds that if fails to complete its goals. As the guidelines state, you must beat existing records. Faster WR times mean that this movie is obviously improvable.
In addition, easy mode is much less entertaining than its counterpart. And I haven't seen a good enough argument to warrant having both movies.
Thanks alot.
A bit suprised about Facility being so high considering i've done 42. Depot as well cause the only diffrence between that and my 25 was lookdown, and if loose roughly 25 hundreds on a 25 seconds level just because of no lookdown that would mean that you loose a tenth every 10 seconds!(Though i still don't believe that console looses more, that would just be wierd).
Joined: 10/31/2005
Posts: 329
Location: The Netherlands
Comicalflop wrote:
-After 10 months, my MK64 run is still not done with the 2nd course.
pretty meaningless fact if you wander off and on all the time. how about an exact amount of hours :p also I think it's fair to say that mk64 is tons harder to perfectionise.
Hi avi ? :D
,
I ask that dumb bcouse iam to stupid to find real emulator(version 1.5 or smth) and all that plugins , once i had them all for oot run but never again , could anyone give me a real emu and all that plguins ? i would make avi of every run becouse i mad one of oot too :)
for teh community
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Wouter Jansen wrote:
pretty meaningless fact if you wander off and on all the time. how about an exact amount of hours :p also I think it's fair to say that mk64 is tons harder to perfectionise.
pretty meaningless that I wander on and off? I'm sorry, I apologize for having ADD and being naturally distractible, for not being nitsuja or adelikat, for failing at school and working part time now, and not being at college having endless hours to TAS. I'm also sorry that MK64 stresses me out when I TAS it, and I'm sorry that I'm working on a different game at the moment that I truly enjoy working on, and sorry everyone has had to wait for 10 months and MMF is still not done, and yeah.
You don't want to know how many man hours I waste with TASing, and not just on MK64 alone. I can't give an exact amount of hours because who can really keep an accurate amount of how much time one spends on the computer? I sure as hell can't. But I'd figure that roughly 2-3 solid months went into it MK64 alone.
Perfectionise ain't a word (perfect would have been better, with annunciation on the 'fect'), but yes MK64 is difficult, especially with a certain someone telling me to redo all of the time. However, I regard 007 as equally hard, so don't use that as an excuse... and it still miffs me that this run got beaten by some speedrun WR's (which a TAS should not do, it's in the rules), which is silly because the WR's have existed before this run was made. There is a kid's song, "Anything you can do, I can do better..." and this applies here.
I think you misunderstood Wouter, he only said that it's meaningless to say you worked on it for 10 months when you only worked a few months. I.e he don't thinks you should include the number of months you worked on other stuff into the MK64 work time.
Oh well anyways, The only thing i have left to say to defend my run is that it is actually just as optimized as RT's run, possibly even more, it's just that the wr's are ALOT closer to max than 00A. And sooner or later, A time from RT's run will be beaten by console players, At least frigate which actually was beaten but unfortunately it proved to be a fake time. SO what will happen to that run when the TAS time is beaten? It'll still be published but against the rules.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
It's only against the rules if the TAS is submitted when there is a current WR that is faster. If a new WR time is achieved that is faster than an already published TAS, that is perfectly acceptable.
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Wyster wrote:
SO what will happen to that run when the TAS time is beaten? It'll still be published but against the rules.
We make runs to the best of our abilities at the time. If a new unassisted WR beats a published movie, we simply wait for someone to take the time to do another TAS that beats (or matches) the new WR. See the full run of Chrono Trigger for a perfect example of this.
So to summarize, in a game where the wr's suck or there are no competition at all the standards for acceptable TAS'es are alot lower than on high competition games. So poeple like me who TAS one of the most competed games ever have to work alot harder on a TAS then poeple making a run for [insert game with 0 competition], and even though my run is better than those the other still get accepted because the competition is lower.
Even though it's in the rules and i get that you love your rules i still think you are forgetting the original purpose of a TAS, to entertain poeple. Personally if i were a watcher who didn't know much about goldeneye, visited this site and watched this run i'd think it was completely perfect. So new watchers don't care about the time, eliters care more about seeing a perfect run cause they already know where the maxes are, So who remains? Members of tasvideos.org. I.e your rule is only to satisfy yourselves, not others(In this case, in general i guess i can agree with it).
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
There are a ton of games without any world records, and yet when the get run they are still scrutinized here. True, having more people working to make a certain aspect of a game as fast as possible will probably lead to more techniques, but this site does not exist simply to beat WRs. It is here to entertain. However if you are interested in making a run that is as fast as possible, and you have all the best tools available to assist you, why would you accept a run which is known to be slower than something done by a person without tools?
As for your casual viewer point, there' already one run of the game, so a casual viewer may not know the difference at all.
Wyster, I would be very surprised if your claim that the 00 Agent Goldeneye unassisted world records "sucked" was true, especially if the Agent unassisted world records are so close that you can't be bothered to check them against your tool-assisted run before proceeding to the next level. It would be odd for a game to be competed so heavily on the easiest difficulty, and not on the hardest. It's much more likely that all the difficulty's world records are equally valid.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
I'm all for entertaining movies that throw out the speed requirement, but even I couldn't make sense out of this.
It looks like you're getting frustrated because you can't do a sloppy job since somebody already did it better. Uh...
Yeah, you make no sense.
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjavík, Ísland
Wyster wrote:
So to summarize, in a game where the wr's suck or there are no competition at all the standards for acceptable TAS'es are alot lower than on high competition games.
It might work like that in practice, but ideally it should not be the case.
So poeple like me who TAS one of the most competed games ever have to work alot harder on a TAS then poeple making a run for [insert game with 0 competition], and even though my run is better than those the other still get accepted because the competition is lower.
No. You are expected to make the most perfect movie possible, no matter what game it is. The difference is that if there is a WR, we know that that time can at least be matched. So, a TAS is naturally expected to match or exceed those times. A sloppy TAS is not supposed to be accepted, although if there are no WRs, it would be more difficult to see whether it is sloppy or not.
It's much more likely that all the difficulty's world records are equally valid.
true, but agent wrs are more maxed than 00 wrs because they are less complex. for humans, complex levels are harder, but in a tas, there is no difference if the level is complex or simple like in agent, that's why you can improve 00 several seconds, but agent can only be improved a few seconds.
i'm sure wyster could have gotten at least wrs on those levels he didn't, but it's harder with 1.1 control style, although he didn't do 25 on depot which he had done before, but who cares, it's just one number, like anyone is gonna see the difference anyway, unless they are from elite.
JXQ, i didn't mean sucked i meant less maxed. So timewise they suck, not playing wise.
especially if the Agent unassisted world records are so close that you can't be bothered to check them against your tool-assisted run before proceeding to the next level.
I'm afraid i don't understand this sentence, i know perfectly well every world record in Goldeneye. If you didn't know it already i'm ranked 11th in the world. And i also knew what time i had before i proceeded.
t looks like you're getting frustrated because you can't do a sloppy job since somebody already did it better. Uh...
Actually it's you who don't make any sense or don't understand me at all, My point is, I DIDN'T do a sloppy job, And RT didn't make it better, he did it on a diffrent difficulty, meaning less maxed wr's and therefor, he beats them. Otherwise my run is for most parts more optimized.
And blublu, your last sentence is exactly what i'm trying to say, in a game with no competition, you guys can't see if a run is optimized or not(not to the level you want me to optimize though, visible mistakes you can of course notice), while in a game like GE you can see the wr's and make your points solely from that. Just look at the first posts in this topic, when you didn't know the run didn't beat some wr's, you didn't see any mistakes. In this case you judge the run only by the numbers, not the entertainment/Perfection in the levels. The only diffrence between my run and a completely perfect run is some luck manipulation which there are no known ways to do.[/quote]
If Agent unassisted records are improvable with tools by n%, it seems reasonable to me to assume that 00 Agent unassisted records are improvable by that same percentage. Perhaps Goldeneye unassisted speedrunning has qualities about it that I'm not aware of, though.
The thing I'm confused by now is this: since you knew the unassisted WRs in Agent difficulty, why did you decide to keep going with a tool-assisted play of that level with a worse time, rather than fix the inoptimal play?
(Please don't answer by pointing fingers at the currently published Goldeneye run, as it is irrelevant to the question I'm asking.)
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
The thing I'm confused by now is this: since you knew the unassisted WRs in Agent difficulty, why did you decide to keep going with a tool-assisted play of that level with a worse time, rather than fix the inoptimal play?
Because of 2 reasons:
1: I didn't know how to improve it and i still don't. The only thing that i know for sure could improve it is lookdown. Otherwise it's pure blind luck manipulation(i.e trying to manipulate something when you don't have a clue of how or when it's decided).
2: The first few levels of the run i wasn't exactly serious about it, Of course i still tried to optimize as much as possible but spending 100 hours on a level for a second? I do have a life you know.
Anyways, I suppose everyone here can agree this discussion is leading nowhere. So i'll just stop arguing now. Whether this run gets published or not, i don't really care anymore, of course it'd be nice but i still have a full agent run to watch for myself when i'm bored.[/quote]
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
1. if you don't know how to improve it, maybe you shouldn't have made a run of it.
2. If you weren't serious about the first few levels, why submit if you didn't fully put effort into it? Guess what, we have real life stuff too, but yet we put man hours into the TASes to make it optimal because what's the point of having tools that let us achieve perfection if we don't try to make perfection?
And hey, you can always let speedruns.net leech and encode your movie for their site, if it's distribution you want.
Joined: 10/31/2005
Posts: 329
Location: The Netherlands
I'd appreciate if someone can make an avi anyway.
as for the "as fast as possible" debate, you can't be wanting 2 things that conflict. if you don't want lookdown because it takes away amusement, then don't whine about the seconds lost to not using it.
another thing which is off topic but I'd still like to mention:
does this mean that PD will NEVER be able to get a tas published? you'll never be able to get the wr or better on the air force one level if you get the wr or better on the level prior to it, air base. and vice versa. the level air base has 2 exits, and air force one has 2 starting points. the exit leading to the fastest time to be able to match or beat the wr, also leads to the starting point that will lead to a slower time than the wr. pd has more of such kind of things, that actions in certain levels can change things in other levels. if the same is true for GE, then arguments about times having to match the wr could be incorrect. and, it would make this on topic :p
I think it's the overall time which counts, not the time of individual levels.
Also, you seem to be implying that the WR is frame-perfect and thus impossible to beat. I find that a bit hard to believe.
Joined: 10/31/2005
Posts: 329
Location: The Netherlands
no, I'm trying to say that random factors could be affected by other levels and thus the wr for a single level might not be matched due to that. I am not implying that it is true in this case, but it shouldn't be dismissed either. and reading the comments about the objections with this submission, it seems people don't look at the overall time, but the time per level. the overall time DOES beat the overall time for all the wrs combined.
