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Skilled player (1419)
Joined: 5/15/2010
Posts: 141
Location: Japan
New any% TAS has done before Wily stage. smv: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1014759191/Mega%20Man%20VII%20any%25.smv video: http://dic.nicovideo.jp/v/sm10898212 It saved 1509 frames excluding conversation scene.
Active player (417)
Joined: 8/22/2008
Posts: 301
Location: Brazil
Great video man! Could you to post the smv file here also?: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php Thanks.
Joined: 5/19/2010
Posts: 259
Location: California
I presume the any% Wily stages will be near identical to the 100% then? Great work, sparky!
#3201
Player (160)
Joined: 5/20/2010
Posts: 295
Great work and great commentary!
Skilled player (1419)
Joined: 5/15/2010
Posts: 141
Location: Japan
sameasusual wrote:
I presume the any% Wily stages will be near identical to the 100% then?
Yes. Unless I find new shortcut. So I'm tired of making it again.
Active player (298)
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 154
Location: Taiwan
sparky wrote:
New any% TAS has done before Wily stage. smv: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1014759191/Mega%20Man%20VII%20any%25.smv video: http://dic.nicovideo.jp/v/sm10898212 It saved 1509 frames excluding conversation scene.
Spring man stage How not to use the death moved to the boss gate? http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm10734520
Skilled player (1419)
Joined: 5/15/2010
Posts: 141
Location: Japan
Sorry, it seemed to cause misunderstanding, it isn't death move. That's just case of failure.
Former player
Joined: 9/13/2010
Posts: 138
Location: Tallahassee, FL
How do you do the wall zip glitches? I am planing a console speed run for this game and I was wondering if it is in theory possible to do on console. I saw that in the run notes that you used up/down and left/right. Do you need to do this to do the wall glitch?
Player (102)
Joined: 1/9/2013
Posts: 1
I checked around a tad and didn't see any mention of this, so I figured I'd post about it. If you're touching a moving platform in Wily 1 while it transitions from solid to passable, mega man goes into an odd state. Screen transitions can teleport you around. I'm assuming it's because you are moved with the platform. This was done on console (US version), so it's not an emulator bug. You can get sent to a lot of places, including the spikes to the left, and and straight upwards into a wall (which you can just walk out of). Here's a video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7GszBkBMl0 I can create an input file if needed. It's really lenient, though.
Experienced player (674)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1773
Location: Brasil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_Z18r2DoMo there are other early boss attack interactions and a cutscene interrupting trick with picking up items
TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Player (37)
Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282
Specifically, scenes at 11:09, 11:36, and 12:18.
Experienced player (674)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1773
Location: Brasil
TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Player (105)
Joined: 6/7/2005
Posts: 290
Location: New York
This game is kinda neat. Is it broken yet?
Soft Blue Dragon
PJ
He/Him
Joined: 2/1/2011
Posts: 181
Location: Western NY
Hey everybody! I found something really interesting in this game yesterday and thought I'd share. It can definitely be used to improve both the any% and 100% TASes if anybody decides to work on those again in the future. I'd also really like to have some more eyes on this in hopes that someone might get some more ideas. ^_^ Rush Search can be used to interrupt cutscenes if he digs up a health or weapon refill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EZZ0iqV3H0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbJjPmmw8uE Those are really the only worthwhile applications I've found. The Wily Machine quick kill is the biggest one. The Cloud Proto visit might save some time (didn't time it out), and the Proto Shield cutscene is probably also worthwhile. Idk if the first Proto Man fight cutscene is worth it or not, but I'll leave that to a more interested party. I've been unable to use this for any other boss kills or anything else of note, but I'd love to have some more opinions!
Editor, Expert player (2071)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
Hi PJ. Haven't seen you around for a while. I already found out that glitch two years ago (although I never made it public). I'll tell you what I know so far. - I came to the same conclusion as you, that the Wily Machine can be quick killed with this method (but not Wily Capsule, since it doesn't have a hitbox). - I disassembled how Rush Search works. Rush Search has three random components. One is the item to be dug up, one is the first Rush delay (wag-tail animation) and the last one is the second Rush delay (digging animation). Note the last one does not apply when digging up important items. There is a 3/32, 3/32, 1/32, and 1/32 chance of digging up small life energy, small weapon energy, large life energy, and large weapon energy, respectively. So the chances of pulling this trick off for the Wily Machine is only 1/4. - Using it on the Cloud Proto visit saves time, if it works. It is also possible to use on the Turbo Proto visit but is difficult to do and unnecessary because there is a full Turbo Proto visit skip which is much faster and isn't random (you have to enter the room by jumping and then exit the room while touching the ground at the same time). - As you already found, you can use it to get the Proto Shield while Proto Man is talking. With Shade Man already done you can then leave the level. According to my calculations, it is now faster in a TAS to do Shade Man first, quick kill Turbo Man then revisit Shade Man's stage for the Proto Shield. - For the Bass scene in Shade Man's stage, if Rush Search has very small delay and digs up a small life/weapon energy, you can save a small amount of time here. In 100% you get a shot at this for free because you need Rush Search three rooms before that for the Energy Balancer. - I couldn't find other places where Rush Search worked. The Rush Search before the Proto door in Shade Man is something I never found before though, so thanks for that (by the way, you need to hold left while going through the door for it to work). It definitely saves time in a TAS. However this trick doesn't seem to work for any other door. I've looked at 100% for a while because there are a lot of possible improvements (and not just because of Rush Search glitches). Here is the test run I made two years ago (requires snes9x 1.51 v7); don't know whether it helps or not.
PJ
He/Him
Joined: 2/1/2011
Posts: 181
Location: Western NY
Oh wow, there's tons of good info here! Thanks so much, FractalFusion! ^_^ -I also took a peek at the Rush Search code, but only for the item probabilities. I did not know that the delays were also random! I thought they were linked to the item result, since I was always getting long delays for the same items. That's good to know! -I had no idea that you could skip the Turbo Proto visit like that! I'll look into that and get practicing. Thanks so much! -Re: stage order in 100%, I agree that Shade first should be fastest. Since Turbo Man and the truck miniboss in his level are both random, I couldn't calculate an exact time savings, but it was somewhere between 3 and 20 seconds based on patterns (in an RTA run). I imagine it would be very very close in a TAS, but likely in favor of Shade first. Factoring in the Proto cutscene skip/early shield grab, it would definitely be faster. Thanks for linking your test run! I'll give it a watch later tonight. IIRC, the current 100% TAS doesn't even do the noise crush quick kills, so there's already quite a lot of time to come off. It would be very interesting to see an updated run! Thanks again for all of this feedback and ideas. I have some things to look into. ^_^
PJ
He/Him
Joined: 2/1/2011
Posts: 181
Location: Western NY
FractalFusion, I gave your TAS WIP a watch two weeks ago and finally remembered to post here. Haha. It's a really impressive run! The biggest change is the cutscene after fighting Mash in the Robot Museum. You can hold start to advance the text during that cutscene; you let it play out in the WIP. Text boxes are really inconsistent in this game so I don't blame you for the omission. Free time save! I've been curious for awhile about a Rush Jet strat in Wily 2. I never tested it myself because it is of no use in an RTA, but it might be interesting to try to TAS sometime. The stage has some awkward geometry in the first few screens that would make zips appealing, but the startup of Jet probably makes it slower than the alternatives. Thanks for sharing the WIP! I had a lot of fun watching it. I sadly can't use much of it in an RTA except the Turbo Proto visit skip, but it was great to see still. ^_^
Editor, Expert player (2071)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
PJ wrote:
The biggest change is the cutscene after fighting Mash in the Robot Museum. You can hold start to advance the text during that cutscene; you let it play out in the WIP.
Thanks! That explains why I wasn't gaining any time over the 100% TAS. Now I feel better about it. Note that there are some things I did in the WIP which are actually suboptimal (I think one or two Rush Coil instances are like that), so it isn't completely well done. I used my WIP mainly to try out different strategies.
Experienced player (674)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1773
Location: Brasil
so... is anybody TASing this for real or just finding tricks and discussion right now?
TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Reviewer, Experienced player (918)
Joined: 11/18/2011
Posts: 311
Location: Morocco
KusogeMan wrote:
so... is anybody TASing this for real or just finding tricks and discussion right now?
After 5 years Yes, there is someone! :) Here is first WIP for 100% Finished up to Cloud Man... Executing first Rush Search glitch.
I still learn more about English. https://www.youtube.com/user/McBobX100
I wrote:
Working is the best way to achieve goals in speedruning. Hardworking is a pain.
Skilled player (1020)
Joined: 1/9/2011
Posts: 230
This is some really good work so far. My only question is at 7:25 it seems like getting stuck in the door is a super small speed vs. entertainment trade off. Is that it?
Reviewer, Experienced player (918)
Joined: 11/18/2011
Posts: 311
Location: Morocco
WarHippy wrote:
This is some really good work so far. My only question is at 7:25 it seems like getting stuck in the door is a super small speed vs. entertainment trade off. Is that it?
Didn't calculate how much it saves/loses, though, yes it is intentionally for entertainment more than saving frames (if anything, maybe 2 frames lost for turning around). I liked it after watching FractalFusion's WIP.
I still learn more about English. https://www.youtube.com/user/McBobX100
I wrote:
Working is the best way to achieve goals in speedruning. Hardworking is a pain.
Editor, Skilled player (1438)
Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 2106
Oh dude, the Mega Man 7 TASes are some of my favorite TASes on the site. I'd be stoked to see an improvement. Looking forward to it!
Challenger
He/Him
Skilled player (1686)
Joined: 2/23/2016
Posts: 1061
I watched the WIP again, and I noticed something: before climbing the second-to-last ladder on Burst Man stage, wouldn't be faster using another Rush Coil or the Freeze weapon usage (after collecting one of R-U-S-H letters) was for lag reduction? Meanwhile, great job! Looking forward for the new project :)
My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.
Reviewer, Experienced player (918)
Joined: 11/18/2011
Posts: 311
Location: Morocco
Challenger wrote:
I watched the WIP again, and I noticed something: before climbing the second-to-last ladder on Burst Man stage, wouldn't be faster using another Rush Coil or the Freeze weapon usage (after collecting one of R-U-S-H letters) was for lag reduction? Meanwhile, great job! Looking forward for the new project :)
Interesting... I'll look at it and see... Freeze usually causes lag, but there it was mostly to clear the way as the met and fish will cause some damaging, or summoning Rush in this case may cause some lag. With that said, it is probably barely faster to use Rush Coil on the ladder. EDIT: I just tested it and it is about 10 frames slower to use Rush Coil compared to regular climb. It is not because of increased lag (there wasn't any lag there thankfully) but it is impossible to kill the first fish after getting the letter with buster, hence why keeping Coil is not that optimal for this one. Nice catch though, Challenger!
I still learn more about English. https://www.youtube.com/user/McBobX100
I wrote:
Working is the best way to achieve goals in speedruning. Hardworking is a pain.
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