I'd vote 100% Notes, Jiggies and Honeycombs only. No need for opening Note Doors, Mumbo Tokens or Witch Switches (since you can get some Jiggies without them).
Basically, anything that's displayable on the Game Stats Total screen.
But that's just my opinion.
I'd vote for jiggies, notes & honeycombs for 100%.
Avoid as many Mumbo Tokens, door-openings and Witch-switches as possible to save time.
I am really hoping for a gamebreaking glitch that would cut the time of the current run by Sami in half for a future any% run.
I was in the group that wanted the mumbo tokens collected last time. It makes no sense to not get them at all. Like was said, they are collectible and there is a max amount possible. I don't suspect I will get my wish because of the impatient posters not wanting the run to take longer... which makes even less sense to me.
<i>A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.</i>
I actually don't care what total you go for as much as I act like, since I'm sure it'll look cool anyway. But I wonder why we have to give so much credence to the pause screens in determining it.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
I don't think any major skips are going to be found, but here are some comments on them anyways:
1. Any world early would be useful, since that would allow us to skip however many jiggies it takes to enter the world. Even Mumbo's Mountain early would let us skip a time consuming jiggy later on that may save over a minute.
It has been tested with emulator and loading zones for worlds exist even if the doors aren't open. The most likely candidates for early worlds are Clanker's Cavern, Mad Mosnter Mansion, and Rusty Bucket Bay. The Clanker's Cavern loading zone is extremely close to the bars, but no attempts to clip slightly through the bars and trigger it have ever been successful. Mad Monster Mansion actually has a hole in the roof that drops straight to the loading zone, and you can actually reach it if you use the "shock jump anywhere" cheat. Unfortunately, you can't get enough height otherwise (even messing with stuff like bee damage boosts). Rusty Bucket Bay doesn't have a very nice loading zone, but when the room is flooded, there is a much larger area you can potentially break out of bounds and work your way around to it.
2. Note skips are pretty useless, unless you can bypass the 810 door. Bypassing the 810 door would immediately allow us to skip click clock woods (saving 15 jiggies, although losing 11 potential jiggies, of which 2-4 would be skipped anyways). Unfortunately, this game isn't clip-friendly...other than the Rusty Bucket Bay window, you can only clip through extremely thin surfaces that happen to be above you (with Beak Buster).
3. Other ideas for useful sequence breaks: skipping the trivia game (would save a lot of time), reaching Clanker's Cavern jigsaw podium without Shock Spring (would save a little backtracking), skipping water level switch 1 (I assume hitting switch 2 would work to get to CCW/RBB podium), clip into that-one-temple-in-Gobi's Valley (the one that would allow us to do GV w/o beak bomb and thus skip two trips to FP)
I would be interested in seeing an any% run with or without more skips found, since skipping 90 notes, 6 jiggies, and all extra honey combs is actually quite a lot (just think about it, no Eyrie, no christmas tree, no tiptup choir, no mr vile...). Would you be going for real time or game time - if real time, you can skip the first credits by resetting at the right point (I know it works when Bottles appears, it probably works even earlier). However, this puts you back at the start of the tower instead of a the top, so it costs more game time (but saves around 5 minutes real time).
I'd vote 100% Notes, Jiggies and Honeycombs only. No need for opening Note Doors, Mumbo Tokens or Witch Switches (since you can get some Jiggies without them).
Basically, anything that's displayable on the Game Stats Total screen.
But that's just my opinion.
So first of all, I found the speed address: 00C67F70 (Float)
I found that swimming speed is 300, running and jumping speed is 500, rolling and normal flying speed is 600, and talon trot is 700. So I then figured that for the start of the game, instead of doing what Sami did with the roll jump and fly, it would be faster to just repeatedly roll and jump.
Which then led me to discover a way to keep rolling speed. At the end of a roll, you can continue getting 600 speed if you hit Z+A to do a back flip, because when you are going into the back flip and sliding you still have 600 speed. I figured this would be useful going when exiting areas before we have the talon trot (into the lair, into Mumbo's Mountain, etc).
I then found that if you are running, and then you crouch you get a speed from around 490-530 (depending on the steepness of the slope you are on) that lasts for about 30 frames. You can jump to get out of it, so it would look like: 500->5xx->500. But, the only place I have found a use for this is the very start of the game when you are outside the house.
I also tested locking the speed at really big values to see if I can get through note doors, and I couldn't, but I easily was able to go through things like bars and small walls.
I'm not sure how much of this is known, because I haven't read the thread too far back.
Edit: If someone can help me find the facing address, I would like to make an optimized spiral mountain.
Flying or Feathery Flap?
Also the z+a to keep speed at the end of a roll while exiting an area was used (if not by Sami, then by me in my Spiral Mountain attempt), but it's been so long I don't know if it was specifically pointed out.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
The Z+A trick I think also applies to when you land on the ground? I remember someone somewhere in this thread mentioning that if you hit the ground during a beak bomb, and you use Z+A plus some other cancelling thing that you can slide across the ground at beak bomb speed.
bkJ's movement method up until getting Talon trot is best. Roll, jump and flap wings at the first possible frame so that banjo touches the ground the instant he jumps. aka jump-cancelling like in the GB DKC3 TAS.
With the crouch thing, I've noticed in this game as well as the sequel that when your running at a good speed, if you crouch and reverse direction, you get a slight speed boost before slowing down (you see Sami do this in the run occasionally, when morphing out of Talon Trot to a spot he needs to get to as only Banjo) I think it needs to be looked into more because of various speedups I've gotten when playing both games. particularly in Banjo Tooie, using the speed cheat, running as only Kazooie, if you run and crouch, you get an insane speed boost moving forward, and even moreso if you turn around while crouching and face backwards as you slide.
I cannot stress this enough: I have proven that when climbing poles/vines/trees, it is faster to jump and press Z to beak dive to grab a higher spot on the vine. I haven't found the exact reasons why, but you can zip up the vine/pole/tree as well. I seem to get it most when I hit Z right after A. It'll take experimentation, but Banjo should never have to climb anything. Even with doing just Jump +Z to regrab, I was able to save 30 frames over Sami's run, and that was just a test. But the zipping thing really works.
Speaking of which, as a sidenote, I think there's a ton of hitbox-detection things you can mess with to save frames everywhere that I don't think Sami fully abused.
Have you tried Z + B after getting the first Jiggy rather than rolling off those steps? I always wanted to see if there is a long waiting period if you Z + B off of a ledge, and the move ends in midair. (Hopefully not a splat.)
You probably know this but potential big time savers in the run would be improving the route. I think on a big scale for each level Sami did a good job, but I predict route improvements could save some time.
Have you tried Z + B after getting the first Jiggy rather than rolling off those steps? I always wanted to see if there is a long waiting period if you Z + B off of a ledge, and the move ends in midair. (Hopefully not a splat.)
A splat? The first jiggy isn't that high up... I think jiggies cancel all movement if you are on the ground (after 1 or 2 frames), and also cancel all upward acceleration. Which is why most of the jiggy jig cancels require a ledge that is jumped off of instead of z+b'd
I'm not sure how much of this is known, because I haven't read the thread too far back.
All of it except for the crouch-slide.
The problem with roll-jump instead of roll-jump-flap is that there is a small pause on landing. The best way to move before talon trot, which Sami did not use, is to roll-jump and flap on the earliest possible frame after the jump.
EDIT: speaking of which, on normal jumps, always flap a frame before landing to avoid that pause.
If you want tricks, try landing a beak bomb exactly (last frame), straight into a crouch-slide or backflip, or landing it exactly or crash-landing on snow.
Comicalflop wrote:
I cannot stress this enough: I have proven that when climbing poles/vines/trees, it is faster to jump and press Z to beak dive to grab a higher spot on the vine. I haven't found the exact reasons why, but you can zip up the vine/pole/tree as well. I seem to get it most when I hit Z right after A. It'll take experimentation, but Banjo should never have to climb anything. Even with doing just Jump +Z to regrab, I was able to save 30 frames over Sami's run, and that was just a test. But the zipping thing really works.
This is known but was assumed to be slower. I think the difference in results is that you are hitting Z earlier.
I believe the reason for it is that Banjo keeps his previous vertical speed during the vine-grabbing animation. It's related to a broader bug where Banjo's velocity takes one frame too long to change, which is also why you can move over the edge of a ledge while entering or exiting talon trot.
Trying 127.0.0.1...
telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host
Thank you for all of the information everyone.
I would really like to start on doing Spiral Mountain, but I still am having trouble finding the facing address. If someone could help me out and find it, I would be extremely grateful!
Edit: Would resets benefit this run in anyway, and if so where?
Would resets benefit this run in anyway, and if so where?
1 place I can think of: between RBB's lair jiggy and CCW. It's a long way from one to the other and resetting to the start of the lair puts you close-ish to the perfect warp cauldron (assuming they were activated and the puzzle completed earlier) iirc.
Would resets benefit this run in anyway, and if so where?
1 place I can think of: between RBB's lair jiggy and CCW. It's a long way from one to the other and resetting to the start of the lair puts you close-ish to the perfect warp cauldron (assuming they were activated and the puzzle completed earlier) iirc.
That might work, I was also wondering maybe reset to skip the credits after the trivia? Would that work?
Joined: 8/8/2005
Posts: 296
Location: NSW, Australia
That does work, it apparently saves 5 or so minutes real time but adds to the game time where the credits don't. I don't know exactly where the reset needs to be, either, that would be something you'd have to test.
I'm not sure how much of this is known, because I haven't read the thread too far back.
All of it except for the crouch-slide.
2008-12-17 (Page 56) Re: Grunty's Furnace Fun
Kirkq wrote:
POSSIBLY USEFUL: It seems that if Banjo is running in a direction, if you turn around and crouch upon turning around you seem to gain more speed than when banjo is walking. This may be the best method of traversing the board. I didn't test this using frame advance, it definitely seems faster though. If Banjo chooses a square while crouched, after the square is over he will be standing as well. (Banjo cannot roll on the board to my knowledge. Banjo normally cannot do his standing B attack, but if you quickly turn around and do it, it sometimes works. You may be able to apply this knowledge to get him to roll, but I couldn't.)
Well now I feel dumb, everything I said before was already known!
Anyways, to get used to TASing this game, I did a sort of test run-ish .m64 of Spiral Mountain, not collecting any honeycombs, just getting into the lair as fast as possible (video coming soon). I found when talking to Bottles, I am 1.5 seconds ahead of Sami's 100% TAS. In this, I showcase the new movement for before talon trot, and I also jump out of the back-flip landing on the spiral unlike Sami, and I skip the top of the spiral Bottles text differently than Sami, and I also show the back-flip after roll into doors trick.
As a side note, for this route, I almost went from the top of one of the trees right on to the spiral. I couldn't do it, but it was very close.
As a side note, for this route, I almost went from the top of one of the trees right on to the spiral. I couldn't do it, but it was very close.
Is this something that may be possible? I suddenly find myself with more free time and could spend some time trying to make it, if you think it could use more testing.
As a side note, for this route, I almost went from the top of one of the trees right on to the spiral. I couldn't do it, but it was very close.
Is this something that may be possible? I suddenly find myself with more free time and could spend some time trying to make it, if you think it could use more testing.
Unless we have the ground pound move (can't quite remember its name), I don't think so. But feel free to try!
Also, I am uploading the video to my test and it's going to take about 2 hours or so.
Anyways, to get used to TASing this game, I did a sort of test run-ish .m64 of Spiral Mountain, not collecting any honeycombs, just getting into the lair as fast as possible (video coming soon). I found when talking to Bottles, I am 1.5 seconds ahead of Sami's 100% TAS. In this, I showcase the new movement for before talon trot, and I also jump out of the back-flip landing on the spiral unlike Sami, and I skip the top of the spiral Bottles text differently than Sami, and I also show the back-flip after roll into doors trick.
looks pretty much like my test run from way back when (I abandoned it because manipulating the MM entrance so that the random seed would cause those 2 jiggies by the ape to be collectible with one dance drove me crazy and the perfectionist in me didn't want to continue with something like that at the beginning of the run :/ ) except with a quicker bottles skip. I don't have the m64 handy and I don't remember if I ever posted it, but if it still exists I'll have access to the computer it's on in a week.
Facing address seems to be right after the speed, at 00C67F74. It's a float in the range [0, 360), though I can't seem to edit it (it's as if it ignores the new value).
