• Emulator used: Gens 11b, and the customized Gens 11b + Camhack + SolidityViewer + HitboxDisplay together with LUA HUD for Genesis Sonic games
  • Aims for fastest ingame time
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Abuses programming errors
  • Does not use zips
  • Manipulates luck
This is a run of Sonic the Hedgehog where no zipping mechanism is abused. It's by no means a glitchless run, mainly because defining what is a glitch and what is not a glitch isn't really trivial. By choosing to not use zipping it means (as defined by me) that what's not allowed to do is gaining a big speed boost (16-32 pixels per frame) from being inside terrains. Something which might seem similar to zipping and is allowed is terrain-ejection and sprite-ejection where the character doesn't gain any speed but instead gets directly shifted to a certain position.
By setting up a goal like this it pretty much forces you to actually play the game like the programmers intended, and you'll never see the screen scroll through the levels without Sonic on it (except when he's above the screen), which more and more have been the case with the Sonic games for Genesis. In this game zips have been found in 13 out of 19 levels (that sometimes basically skip entire levels) meaning that a run without zips looks very different as a whole, which was also a big reason why I made this run.

More details about why this goal was chosen

Normally improvements to Sonic games have been the result of slighty better precision added to the run but mainly by finding more places to zip through thus taking away more and more normal gameplay from the run. When reading through submission threads for many of these improvements it's clear that there's interest for a so called "glitchless" run without anyone really specifying what they mean by that. It might seem like a simple thing to do but if you spend some time with the game learning the physics and everything that comes with it, it'll be clear that it's not so simple - especially when you also need to consider everyone's own opinion of what a glitch is, what a zip is and what an ejection is. As I don't consider ejection a glitch (it's the result of normal collision detection) and pretty much all other things that could be interpreted as glitches besides zipping isn't really noticable by the eye and unintendedly happen frequently when playing the game unassisted. I thus went for only disallowing zipping.
Most criticism has been pointed towards the ejections that skips parts of the levels in the acts SBZ2 and SBZ3. Believe me, I'd be very glad myself if those maneuvers weren't possible as I always wanted to take the intended route. But if I'd disallowed those then the question would be why I didn't disallow other slighty less obvious ejections as well. And then if I'd ban those too, I'd be wondering whether I'd give up even less obvious ejections, and so on until I'd gotten to the kind of ejection that occurs when normally landing on ground which is impossible to not abuse. So rather than setting an arbitrary standard for how "big" the ejection can be in order to stay in the run I simply allowed them all. Of course, I probably just could've skipped using the ejections in SBZ2 and SBZ3 and Final Zone and not mentioning the ejections in the submission text at all, and almost nobody would've noticed the other ejections in the run even if they're there, if I'd just wanted to have this run published as easy as possible, lying is an easy way to get love from people. But then I'd end up with a run that doesn't follow my goals which not how I make my TASes.

Time table

ActMy timePrevious best non-zipped time
Green Hill 10:24:230:24:30
Green Hill 20:17:090:17:43
Green Hill 30:30:450:30:48
Marble Zone 10:42:370:44:26
Marble Zone 20:49:540:52:48
Marble Zone 31:11:331:12:56
Spring Yard 10:21:310:22:12
Spring Yard 20:26:120:28:00
Spring Yard 30:55:400:56:59
Labyrinth 10:39:310:40:45
Labyrinth 20:50:290:51:19
Labyrinth 31:03:421:07:31
Star Light 10:21:230:21:43
Star Light 20:15:130:15:58
Star Light 30:35:260:42:49
Scrap Brain 10:37:51N/A
Scrap Brain 20:33:580:41:18
Scrap Brain 30:15:380:18:26
Final Zone1:12:011:13:20

Level-by-level comments

Green Hill 1

Took use of lots of down-slopes to speed up the jumps, attacked enemies to minimize air drag(1) and jumped an extra time in the loop.

Green Hill 2

Executed the ejection process better and again minimizing air drag.

Green Hill 3

Faster boss fight

Marble Zone 1

I got under the first frame rule based obstacle one frame rule earlier, but then I had to wait to get it right with the platform that goes in and out of the wall.

Marble Zone 2

Just better execution for every situation

Marble Zone 3

Only optimizations

Spring Yard 1

Took the speed shoes in a faster way and using a different route in the middle part of the act.

Spring Yard 2

I gained 3 frames before the second spike ball in the tunnel which just allowed me to pass under it for a big improvement.

Spring Yard 3

Optimizations and a new boss strategy

Labyrinth 1

Optimizations and strategy changes

Labyrinth 2

Took the invincibility to not have to stop and wait for obstacles under the water.

Labyrinth 3

Just lots of optimizations and strategy changes

Star Light 1

Gained more speed pretty much everywhere.

Star Light 2

Gained much more speed and tackled the end better.

Star Light 3

Major shortcut and route change together with a new boss strategy

Scrap Brain 1

Took the only route that doesn't force you to wait for the blocks that go in and out of the wall.

Scrap Brain 2

Used the, by now, famous trick to skip down a level plus a much more optimized last room.

Scrap Brain 3

Optimizations and the other famous trick.

Final Zone

Pausing in the beginning will increase the counter for when the boss fight will start, while not costing any ingame time.
(1) Air drag occurs when your jumping velocity is between -1024 and 0, and takes away 1/32th of your speed per frame.

Thanks to

marzojr for all the help during the making of this run. And thanks to all the previous TASers and contributors to this game, I won't mention any names since I'll probably miss out quite a few, but you know who you are.
Enjoy!

feos: HD Encode.
adelikat: Judging.
adelikat: Accepting for publication as a new category for this game. See this post for my comments.
OmnipotentEntity: Encoding underway.


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kode54 wrote:
High quality FM: Acceptable, sounds correct. High quality PSG: Interpolates square waves into sine waves, kill with fire.
I know. But after I uploaded this Sonic to my second (unlimited) YT account, next day it was capped regardless phone number (for no reason). So, now I'm not able to upload 15+ min vids again.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I'm not totally sure about labeling a run with 'no zips' and then have a screenshot of the player going through walls. Even if it's not technically a zip, (which actually took a bit of discussion to establish, even among members of this community, consider outsiders) it's the most blatant example of glitching in a run with a label many will read as 'low glitch'. I think something more representative of what the run's about would be more appropriate.
Even the best player is limited by the speed of his fingers, or his mind's ability to control them. But what happens when speed is not a factor, when theory becomes reality?
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what is Camhack + SolidityViewer + HitboxDisplay ? where i can get then? ps.. yes for the video
Run..Run...Run.....
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wicked wrote:
what is Camhack + SolidityViewer + HitboxDisplay ? where i can get then?
http://www.mediafire.com/file/uw1gls6593v757s/gens_11b-s1.7z User instructions by marzojr: "The modifications are by Upthorn and Nitsuja, I just compiled with it. It has solidity display (green = only top solid; red = all but top solid; blue = all solid; no overlay = not solid) (which can be used to spot imperfections on the ground, which are sometimes good for slope jumps), hitbox display, base RAM address and slope display (can be turned on/off with numlock) and the camhack -- which can still be useful as you can force it to center in an offscreen object (such as the spikes you mentioned) using page up/page down/home to navigate through objects and scroll lock to toggle on/off."
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Joined: 9/22/2011
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Although I think getting pushed through the floor by the piston thing was fine, the thing in that screenshot is pushing it a little. I understand what the distinction is and your reasoning for it, though. (And that screenshot really shouldn't be used as the publication shot, like Dragonfangs suggests.) With that said, one little thing isn't enough for me to dislike the run. Very fast action and lots of precision jumps, just like Sonic should be!
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Voted no. It was really entertaining, but I felt the criteria is too iffy. Saying zipping is not okay, but terrain ejection or whatever is okay, seems way too narrow a distinction.
Soig
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Love it!!! And waiting for an encode.
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Soig wrote:
Love it!!! And waiting for an encode.
There's a YouTube stream in the submission message.
nfq
Player (94)
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The zips make you go WTF the first time you see them, but after a while they get boring, so this is a good idea. I hope to see a Sonic 3 & Knuckles run without zips also, if I remember correctly there were a lot more zips there.
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Might not the right place but if we are throwing out 'whats next?' ideas... The no zip rule I imagine would go together with a goal which is not simply any% get to the end asap. And the first one that comes to my mind with that with Sonic would be Sonic CD 100%. Having to find a 'past sign post/Eggman Machine/Hologram projector' I would imagine remove the potential for a lot of zips, which would remove the 'bad criteria' no votes that this run got? (Of course that is assuming a 100% run consists of all Hologram and Eggman machines and the last time stone is collected on the last level, which is a whole different topic.)
Soig
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Nahoc wrote:
There's a YouTube stream in the submission message.
My means is that waiting for a downloadable publication movie.
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This amuses me much, I especially liked the aim of the mission of not using those glitches that take you to the finish with the push of a button. I vote yes.
sack_bot
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You get hurt only 4 times in the move. Can't you make it no damage?
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Probably my favorite TAS of 2011, very much hoping other Sonic games get similar treatment from you, great work! I read through the entire thread just now, and I honestly don't understand what some of you people are smoking. Just a big giant enormous WTF to some of the comments in here.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [1937] Genesis Sonic the Hedgehog "no zips" by Aglar in 17:36.58
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Blaming stupidity and a lack of general intelligence, OmnipotentEntity announced that there are various issues with the released mp4 files, with a/v desync and number of bits. He will reencode and replace as soon as possible.
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Replace the Youtube video while that you're doing it, please. As pointed out by kode54 as well, it uses the very bad PSG sound. Can that option be removed at all from the newest Gens Movie releases, too?
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I didn't encode the youtube video, but that one is way quicker to do, so I'll just upload my own.
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I agree that the original TASer is correct in that there's no reliable criteria to exclude just those two ejections, and allow the ones that aren't broken. On the other hand it's incredibly obvious that those routes aren't intended. On the third hand, there are other routes not intended that do not even abuse ejections. So the "as intended by the programmer" test is too restrictive. Personally i would have not performed those two skips, and just filed it under speed/entertainment tradeoffs. The skip in these cases showcases much less skill.
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sack_bot wrote:
You get hurt only 4 times in the move. Can't you make it no damage?
I actually take damage 6 times. And I've always preferred damage boosts over waiting for something. It's a matter of opinion:)
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Joined: 12/15/2011
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Thanks for the effort. It's very relaxing to watch. Btw: I got issues with the sound in the video. It's very delayed. Am I the only one experiencing this?
The need for speed! *highfive*
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OhMega wrote:
Thanks for the effort. It's very relaxing to watch. Btw: I got issues with the sound in the video. It's very delayed. Am I the only one experiencing this?
As noted before, there are a few issues with the published mp4 files. They have just been fixed. Please redownload.
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Joined: 6/26/2011
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I'm just kind of wondering at this point if this movie could technically be obsoleted by one that is slightly slower, but performs fewer zips.
First a movie gets submitted, and ends up accepted despite breaking rules other runs have been rejected for. And when I vote less than spectacularly on this movie, I become the victim of harassment and threats. Yay, favoritism.
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Saethori wrote:
I'm just kind of wondering at this point if this movie could technically be obsoleted by one that is slightly slower, but performs fewer zips.
You mean a movie that is of similar quality but actually plays through Scrap Brain Zone 3? I'd prefer that. And I don't see why not.
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marzojr
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You guys mean choosing the yellow path over the teal path in this picture (warning, gigantic image)? Because, you know, the first Sonic 1 TAS already used it. Or do you mean one of the (not pictured) increasingly slower routes that come about from playing more of SBZ3?
Marzo Junior