Joined: 11/26/2010
Posts: 444
Location: New York, US
P.JBoy wrote:
P.JBoy wrote:
lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:
Is it possible for you to make a file that lists for the Health and Weaknesses for the normal enemies in the game. If you can I would greatly appreciate it.
Sure, I'll add it after the exams; until then, here's this:
Thank you, this was very informative!!! Its good to know if any other enemies have certain weaknesses to other weapons. Anyway thank you again, I really appreciate the effort you put in to making this!!!!
Also Cpadolf those .smv's were amazing!!!!
Fuck saving ammo, that was just flat out disgusting!!!!!
Anyway there's probably no use for that Pseudo Screw Attack + Charge Beam glitch unfortunately but, it is cool. Hopefully there will be some use for it somewhere in the run but, I doubt it.
Anyway there's probably no use for that Pseudo Screw Attack + Charge Beam glitch unfortunately but, it is cool. Hopefully there will be some use for it somewhere in the run but, I doubt it.
Problem here is that the Charge Beam will only be acquired right before maridia and once you get to Norfair, it doesn't take too long for you to get the Screw Attack, so the window for the usage of this trick is very short.
Anyway there's probably no use for that Pseudo Screw Attack + Charge Beam glitch unfortunately but, it is cool. Hopefully there will be some use for it somewhere in the run but, I doubt it.
I used it to kill Ridley in my old Super Metroid: Redesign WIP, but unfortunately bosses aren't susceptible to the 'Pseudo Screw Attack', and I can't think of anywhere else you would have to shoot so soon after doing it, as the window for shooting a normal shot after would only be about 10 frames or so.
Eye of the Beholder posted me about the possibility of going to GT through the back door and getting the missile with the CF glitch (I'm guessing this is what Taco/Kriole had in mind when testing it). I did a very unoptimized test of it, and it was already 9 seconds faster, though with far less Super Missiles, so some additional time might be wasted for that. I was worrying about how you'd take enough damage in time without taking of any suits, but then I realized that no E-tank is picked up between getting the springball and going to LN, so a lot of energy can be drained on the crawler that breaks the wall in the pre springball room, which would remove any delay it causes on GT.
Also, silly thing I didn't think about. If you grab both Spazer and Wave early, you'd just de-equip Spazer, along with Varia either in WS (if you need to lose more health before the Gauntlet shinespark), or right before Botwoon. Krioles Zeebite skip would then be used to avoid a second pause screen.
Joined: 11/26/2010
Posts: 444
Location: New York, US
You fought the GT first I'm guessing? 9 seconds faster DAMN, unoptimized nonetheless!!!!!! That's just fucking crazy. Would grabbing Screw Attack first be faster? I would doubt that it would be but, its still worth testing I guess. I didn't even think it would be faster for 100% but, clearly it is by a large margin of time no less!!!!!
Also I think Taco and Kriole tested that because of a 100% RBO route possibility. Because apparently you can't activate the Statue without Space Jump, killing Draygon or something like that.
This route just keeps getting crazier and crazier as time goes on. I'm remember you guys discussing this a few pages back I believe. That the Energy Tank room with the Lightning Bugs would be faster in game time if you go there before Ridley, correct? I would definitely see it saving in game time but, it will hurt the real time aspect of the game due to another door transition. I'd rather see the in game time saver anyway. So that would make another route change for the 100%. Man, things just keep getting more and more interesting.
Also with that WS Attic room strategy. Wouldn't that Ki Hunter die from the Blue Suit Echos instead of the Super Missile + Missile or does taking damage from that spark make you go through him?
Yeah GT was fought first. If you Crystal Flash during his death animation, very little time is wasted by the Crystal Flash. And I think Screw Attack should be taken before GT. It's probably slightly slower than taking it afterwards, but it makes it possible to quickly take damage several times from GT before he wakes up so you won't have to waste time doing that during the fight. If it was possible to manage your energy in such a way that you enter his room with so little energy that only one or two hits are needed to make a Crystal Flash possible, it might be worth to take Screw Attack later.
As far as I know the E-tank in the light bugs room would still be taken after Ridley. That was discussed because of the possibility of taking the PB to the room in the upper right with a Crystal Flash to avoid a detour, but it turned out slower.
And the two last enemies in the WS attic can indeed be taken out by blue suit echoes. I think I wrote that in an edit to that post.
Regarding that GT fight, i never saw something like this happening, but isn't it possible to make him jump to the oposite side, i mean, jump to the left instead of jumping to the right? So you could handle him while still close to the spot where you have to Cristal Flash.
Edit: If you manage to do that, you could shoot him one charged shot right before morphing to land the Power Bomb, shooting diagonally down, and then shoot another charged shot when you reach the ground to jump again.
Joined: 11/26/2010
Posts: 444
Location: New York, US
Cpadolf wrote:
Yeah GT was fought first. If you Crystal Flash during his death animation, very little time is wasted by the Crystal Flash. And I think Screw Attack should be taken before GT. It's probably slightly slower than taking it afterwards, but it makes it possible to quickly take damage several times from GT before he wakes up so you won't have to waste time doing that during the fight. If it was possible to manage your energy in such a way that you enter his room with so little energy that only one or two hits are needed to make a Crystal Flash possible, it might be worth to take Screw Attack later.
As far as I know the E-tank in the light bugs room would still be taken after Ridley. That was discussed because of the possibility of taking the PB to the room in the upper right with a Crystal Flash to avoid a detour, but it turned out slower.
And the two last enemies in the WS attic can indeed be taken out by blue suit echoes. I think I wrote that in an edit to that post.
Yea I figured you fought him first it just seem like the logical way to do it. You grab the Super Missile Pack before the fight, right? Yea I didn't even think about the Screw Attack Cancel that's a great idea depending on how your energy that is at that point!!!!!!!
Oh so that's what the discussion was about. Pretty good idea but, yea it seems slower. I think grabbing the E-Tank early would faster for in game time though.
Oh nice you can save a Super or 2 there. The way you kill the enemies is insane though. Speaking of the WS Attic room is it possible to PB then Grapple the spark and do the room with about the same speed in order to save some Missiles and Super Missiles or will the enemy placement be a problem?
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
Does the screw attack zebetite skip cost any time, or is it just as fast non-screw attack version?
Light bug etank early might well be faster for in-game time. Seems like it would be worth testing.
If this run is going to use crystal flashes to slip past single blocks, then there may be anther spot to save time:
http://gromba.nl/zebes/?zoom=6&lat=34&lng=-33
Go straight up after passing the green gate in lower norfair, thus avoiding the pillar room detour to obtain the missile pack up there.
Does the screw attack zebetite skip cost any time, or is it just as fast non-screw attack version?
As far as i remember, it is the same in-game time, but it saves some realtime frames by not having to disable it in the pause screen.
hero of the day wrote:
If this run is going to use crystal flashes to slip past single blocks, then there may be anther spot to save time:
http://gromba.nl/zebes/?zoom=6&lat=34&lng=-33
Go straight up after passing the green gate in lower norfair, thus avoiding the pillar room detour to obtain the missile pack up there.
I don't think this will work. The route that is going to be used now is entering GT from the back door and for that you have to go down instead of going up in that area. Even if you would go for the usual route, it would take too much time to wait for the PB to destroy the blocks before the pilar room to reach the top and go to the right and it would take much more time for the Cristal Flash to be activated.
In the other hand, if you want to get this Missile pack before going to fight GT, it would take more time because of the backtrack. I think the usual route to get that Missile Pack is the fastest one.
Also, even if this would be tested, there would be too much health to waste because you'd have just used a Cristal Flash to refill all your health.
The method used to perform the zebetite skip with Screw Attack is the same that is used in the RBO. At most it could be a few frames slower because of possibly having to do the first jump different to properly take damage with Screw Attack.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
So now that getting the charge beam early is a no-go, here is a quick list of the places where wave early saves time, please feel free to add:
- Shootable blocks in WS
- Exiting norfair (room after exiting the croco area)
- The room between the crateria lake and the landing site
- The gold torizo fight
- Daygon and Botwoon PB combo (disabling spazer)
- The elite pirates (using xray on them to do a single hit kill)
- Ridley can take an extra 600 (?) damage, thus saving 20 frames on a super missile
- The dachora room
- The blue gate before croco
- The pink brinstar room with the blue gate
- The plasma beam room can be greatly improved using the strategy in Saturn's movie
- There are countless other areas where doors seem like they are opened right when samus is horizontally aligned with them. Maybe many arm pumps are can be added throughout
- killing enemies and collecting countless item drops that would otherwise be impossible (cactus in red brinstar shaft would save time to kill early)
may be possible (needs testing)
- see if wave/spazer can allow a wrap shot in croco area without being charged
- open the blue door on the outside of the WS to see if a shinspark can be performed 2 rooms prior to the chozo statue room.
- the wrap around shot in lower norfair when exiting the light bug room, to open the left side door earlier/faster
If the wave beam can be collected and it only adds 3 seconds of pipe bug refills, it should be worth collecting.
What amazes me is how all these changes are constantly being found and how this run has truly evolved from its humble beginings. It's already gone well beyond where I even could remotely ponder something and it be interesting or new... but who knows.
Wish there was a quicker way to defeat Mother Brain though. I mean outside of a Murder Beam. Too bad it'd be pointless to shoot anything but beams.. or lack of time to fire off a power bomb if that did anything. That'd be cool if it was some delayed reaction affair could take place and it go off as Samus stands up from being healed. Impossible, but interesting to visualize
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Just another random gamer
----
<OmnipotentEntity> How do you people get bored in the span of 10 seconds? Worst ADD ever.
may be possible (needs testing)
- open the blue door on the outside of the WS to see if a shinspark can be performed 2 rooms prior to the chozo statue room.
I posted a smv of that door beeing opened from above with a charged shot, but iirc i used to open it with just regular shots, so i don't think it will be a problem. Regarding if it's possible or not to shinespark, it is. I did a not optimized test that you can see here. I just don't know if would save time or not.
hero of the day wrote:
- the wrap around shot in lower norfair when exiting the light bug room, to open the left side door earlier/faster
I couldn't find a spot even with a Charged Plasma. Also, i realized that Cpadolf was holding the run button all the way to the door, the only benefit of a wrap around (if possible without loosing time) would be to add some more armpumps.
I think it saves some frames in the bubble room when returning from Speedbooster/Wave Beam. In the small passage in the middle of the room you don't need to wait for the crabs to be in a good position to shoot them, you just place a bomb to destroy the blocks and shoot diagonaly down.
Also, there's the WS room where kriole found the CWJ trick, going for the E.T. after defeating Phantoon. for it to work you need wave beam to open the door earlier. IIrc it allows to save almost half second.
Edit: It possibly saves some frames when going for that PB pack after the LighBugs E.T. After the morphball maze, Cp had to wait till Samus reached the ground to shoot the block in the right, while it could have been shot earlier, with wave beam, so Cp could morph in midair before reaching the ground.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
nice additions to the list. I am thinking that when all of these are added up, it really seems as though getting the wave beam is a must for in-game time.
Another topic for discussion is what version of Snes9x should be used for future runs. I see that there is a 1.53 version now. It looks like it fixes the graphical issues that plagued the game in the 1.43 version. I would also assume that the timing is now more accurate. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
I only used this version to watch the smvs that forensics and his brother post in m2k2. I don't know why but i have problems with this version, it doesn't work fine for me unfortunatelly. Here at my work it says a dll file is missing and i don't remember but something happens in my notebook too. If it's better for TASing, then go for it.
Wish there was a quicker way to defeat Mother Brain though. I mean outside of a Murder Beam. Too bad it'd be pointless to shoot anything but beams.. or lack of time to fire off a power bomb if that did anything. That'd be cool if it was some delayed reaction affair could take place and it go off as Samus stands up from being healed. Impossible, but interesting to visualize
Murder beam is obsolete for Mother Brain, isn't it? I'm pretty sure the stand-up glitch is faster, and gets rid of all of Mother Brain's hp before Samus gets the hyper beam. So you don't really need any delayed reaction affair there.
Another topic for discussion is what version of Snes9x should be used for future runs. I see that there is a 1.53 version now. It looks like it fixes the graphical issues that plagued the game in the 1.43 version. I would also assume that the timing is now more accurate. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Man, that's a lot of applications for the Wave beam. It would be really nice to get it, even though I don't entirely like adding door transition like that. I guess the Pipe Bugs will be the final decider on what happens, as it might just as well be impossible to manipulate your luck well enough to get all the necessary health in a reasonable amount of time.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
yeah the door transitions suck :/
Unfortunately if the run does aim for in-game time, there will be something like 12 additional door transitions. Combined with additional lag/slower door transitions, and an in-game run may actually be slower in realtime than the current run.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
wave early - 2
maridia sandpit after plasma - 2
maridia new route after mainstreet missile pack - 1
green brinstar super missile room (get missiles and reenter) - 2
?? lightbug room early etank ?? - 2
The new gold torizo route adds 2 doors transitions, but is offset by the gains of the CF
Maybe more, but I cannot recall at the moment.
