This is a warpless run! I believe everyone in this site looks for nsmb's warpless run for a long time! And now, it has finished and submitted!
When I watched its any% movie, I had a ambition to make a warpless run. But I didn't have a good route to finish game fast... But WinEpic's "no cannons" run gives me a good route. So I start doing this run with WinEpic.
WinEpic do some stages in this run. And I improved his.
Emulator used
DeSmuME 0.9.7
Be sure Advanced Bus-Level Timing is off before watching.
I choose 0.9.7 instead of 0.9.8. Because 0.9.8 gives me more lag frames on map screen...
Some important Comments
I use corner boosting to make run faster.
1 frame lost in 1-1. To get flower in 1-2.
I use star speed to finish 1-2's first part.
I enter door in 1-tower earlier. To maniplate time at the ending of the stage.
I use fire ball to fight against boss in 1-castle to make him die faster.
Take damage and get a flower later in 2-castle to save time.
I want to tread boss in 2-castle. But it doesn't achieve...
I use flower in 3-1... Sorry, I didn't know its swimming speed can be faster with blue koopa shell when I did this stage...
Waste time to maniplate time in 5-1.
A different route from any% run. To finish world 5 faster.
Jump ahead of screen in 5-tower.
Spend 5 coins to walk a faster way.
Use mini-Mario to enter world 7.
I copy most of any%'s world 8's input.
I waste about 2 seconds in 8-3 to get blue shell. Sorry, I don't know how to manilate hammer bros's item well...
Noxxa: While there are some technical mistakes here and there in the movie, this is still a quite nice and entertaining run. Viewer response was generally positive, as well. I think the good things outweigh the bad things here, so despite there being a couple seconds' worth of improvements in this TAS, I'll still accept this run for publication.
I use flower in 3-1... Sorry, I didn't know its swimming speed can be faster with blue koopa shell when I did this stage...
You should really know this stuff before you take the time to make the run, so you don't make this kind of simple mistake. The any% TAS takes time out to get a blue shell specifically so it can swim faster in underwater levels; you should have realized this, assuming you watched that TAS.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
I waste about 2 seconds in 8-3 to get blue shell. Sorry, I don't know how to manilate hammer bros's item well...
I hope this helps:
Luck Manipulation
The starting RNG depends on the date and time you start the movie.
The RNG changes whenever certain sound effects are played, whether by Mario or the background music itself (though this depends on the level). Luck can always be manipulated by either double jumping, throwing something, or wall jumping. We sadly do not know exactly what the numbers in the address mean yet, so luck was usually manipulated by changing the amount of double jumps and wall jumps.
We currently know that the RNG affects:
The Red ? Block and Hammer Bros. movements on the world map
The movement of the Scuttlebugs
The volcano rocks in World 8-8
When the final cutscene in World 8-Castle 2 (Bowser Jr. throwing Dry Bowser into the pot) activates
Oh! It seems that this submission will be rejected.
Maybe I should redo this, but I can't. Because my summer holiday will end. So who can help me redo this?
I choose 0.9.7 instead of 0.9.8. Because 0.9.8 gives me more lag frames on map screen...
Isn't that because it's more accurate than 0.9.7? You can choose a ROM revision that benefits you, but you shouldn't cherry pick an emulator that benefits you through inaccurate emulation! Always choose the most accurate emulator available.
TASing or playing back a DOS game? Make sure your files match the archive at RGB Classic Games.
Isn't that because it's more accurate than 0.9.7? You can choose a ROM revision that benefits you, but you shouldn't cherry pick an emulator that benefits you through inaccurate emulation! Always choose the most accurate emulator available.
When I used 0.9.8 to do it and found that it gave me more lag frames, my mood was so bad... But you are right. I'll pay attention to it. I'll choose the most accurate emulator's version later.
I haven't watched the TAS yet, but i would like to add that if you are going to redo this, or make any other TAS, post your work on the forums, so someone can tell you about simple errors or mistakes like the stated above.
Joined: 8/14/2009
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hopper wrote:
Isn't that because it's more accurate than 0.9.7? You can choose a ROM revision that benefits you, but you shouldn't cherry pick an emulator that benefits you through inaccurate emulation! Always choose the most accurate emulator available.
It happens all the time. (See: Most people who still use snes9x v1.43, and probably some other instances as well)
There isn't really a rule to pick the most 'accurate' emulator, and some people prefer speed/less lag over accuracy.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player
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Location: Tennessee
You can't assume more lag is more accurate. Emulator developers are not at all concerned with or even notice how much lag there is.
Especially with desmume, the new release may have a more new (and less tested) approach to something that in theory is more accurate. However, in practice it may have unforseen bugs. (For instance, FCEUX has an old ppu that is definitely less accurate but is more stable than the new ppu, and thus the old ppu is better overall for tasing. I'm not saying 9.7 is preferred, but you can't say it was wrong to use it.
Also, make sure you turn advanced bus level timing off! Regardless of which version. For this game especially, it adds lag that should NOT be there.
If you study videos of speedruns on a real DS, it is looks as though there is absolutely 0 lag frames on overworld maps, so I find any instance of lag there to be dubious in terms of accuracy.
Also, this game is very copy/paste friendly, you might be able to paste in a fixed version of some levels. However, I do think people are being a bit harsh on a few mistakes over the course of a rather long warpless movie.
Thanks for the encode, FractalFusion!
Having watched this, I was quite entertained. The run wasn't obviously suboptimal aside from not having a blue shell for the underwater segments, and the playing around was quite fine (though I confess to fast-forwarding through the snake block segment in 7-castle).
While the run may not be perfect, I think we should keep in mind that it still took a lot of effort to make from some players who are new to the TASing scene. If anyone more experienced wanted to make this run, they had plenty of time to do it in; TASing on the DS is not a new phenomenon and the any% run has been around for years now. So, thanks, Soig and WinEpic!
That said, given the amount of input copied from the any% run, I do think that the creators of that run (or at least those who worked on world 8) should be credited as co-creators on this one.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
I liked the run. It kept me entertained for the three quarters of an hour that I watched it, and it looked pretty good, aside from what was pointed out in the thread. Really glad to see more of the game too, though a full 100% run, whatever the definition of that category may be for that game, wouldn't go a miss.
I don't see why we shouldn't accept this run.
I uploaded FractalFusion's encode to YouTube, so you can watch without download.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaPw4gHEicE
Thanks to him and WinEpic, Soig for the run.
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
Just as a route-planning issue, I'm not 100% convinced the route for 5-Castle is optimal. Is it worth spending the extra time necessary to get a Mini Mushroom in reserve to be able to kill the boss much faster by attacking it with an item that actually does damage? (You could manage that much earlier in the game via using a ?-block Mini Mushroom together with a Mini Mushroom in the stage, which wouldn't lose much time, as you don't use the reserve box before that point except for a bit of entertainment in 5-T that could easily be replaced.)
I thought it looked really good. It's obvious that you put effort into entertainment, and it makes the run look better. The whole run looks optimized to me (though it can be hard to tell) and is very entertaining. Yes vote!
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
W3-Castle boss could be improved
Took 7 in-game seconds for the TAS run to defeat the boss.
My 100% run took 7 in-game seconds and also picked up a power up so technically it's 1-2 in-game seconds faster if you do this strat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIEe1Py2ztQ&list=PLC4630F9B1AB5603E&index=22&feature=plpp_video
I am aware that the RNG manipulation is a bit mean at times from Red ? boxes/Hammer Bros to not only be on the right stages but also drop the correct power-ups as well.
Other possible yet hard RNG improvements
- Try and get the Red ? Box/Hammer Bro on 5-B instead of 5-Tower.
I'm not 100% convinced the route for 5-Castle is optimal. Is it worth spending the extra time necessary to get a Mini Mushroom in reserve to be able to kill the boss much faster by attacking it with an item that actually does damage? (You could manage that much earlier in the game via using a ?-block Mini Mushroom together with a Mini Mushroom in the stage, which wouldn't lose much time, as you don't use the reserve box before that point except for a bit of entertainment in 5-T that could easily be replaced.)
You got to factor:
- The time it takes to get one by unlocking via Star sign path/Fireworks bonus that is then placed at the start of the world map
- The fade transition from World map to the Red Mushroom House,
- The time it takes for the mini mushroom to be in the reserve slot
- The time it takes for the Red Mushroom house to disappear
With all of those things, it is a good chance that it's not a good idea to get one in reserve.
What interested me is how useful the mini mushroom is for this warpless run, I was originally thinking,
"No, please use the fire flower for the bosses"
and then the stage afterwards I was like,
"Oh so that's why you kept the mini power-up"
The possible improvements is mostly RNG which only saves a few seconds at the most and probably test if paying a star sign to play through 3-A is faster than going straight to 3-1.
Good run overall.
Soig has been doing a LOT of submitting. But THIS is his best work! You'll make millions!
actually, not too many TASes get a million hits. trust me, it has been done before.
Yes vote :P
You got to factor:
- The time it takes to get one by unlocking via Star sign path/Fireworks bonus that is then placed at the start of the world map
- The fade transition from World map to the Red Mushroom House,
- The time it takes for the mini mushroom to be in the reserve slot
- The time it takes for the Red Mushroom house to disappear
With all of those things, it is a good chance that it's not a good idea to get one in reserve.
I wasn't talking about using a Red Mushroom house; that's probably slower (although it says something that it isn't obvious).
I was talking about getting a Mini Mushroom while already being in Mini form, which is another way to get a mini mushroom in the reserve box, and one that's likely to lose a lot less time; you can get two mini mushrooms early quite easily. (Probably world 1 would be the best place to do it.) It's even possible to get a mega mushroom in the reserve box this way, btw; I've done it in realtime, although it's pretty difficult.
I waste about 2 seconds in 8-3 to get blue shell. Sorry, I don't know how to manilate hammer bros's item well...
I hope this helps:
Luck Manipulation
The starting RNG depends on the date and time you start the movie.
The RNG changes whenever certain sound effects are played, whether by Mario or the background music itself (though this depends on the level). Luck can always be manipulated by either double jumping, throwing something, or wall jumping. We sadly do not know exactly what the numbers in the address mean yet, so luck was usually manipulated by changing the amount of double jumps and wall jumps.
We currently know that the RNG affects:
The Red ? Block and Hammer Bros. movements on the world map
The movement of the Scuttlebugs
The volcano rocks in World 8-8
When the final cutscene in World 8-Castle 2 (Bowser Jr. throwing Dry Bowser into the pot) activates
Totally uninformed idea, but from watching the video, whenever Mario double jumps he either says "Yah" or "Whooh". I assume this is decided by the RNG. So it sounds like the RNG advances only when a number is consumed from it.
I'm guessing it was initially connected to certain sound effects because they're randomized sound effects.
Wall jumps seem to have randomized smoke. Throwing things I haven't observed yet, but perhaps it also uses a random sound effect?
If that's the case then breaking the blue bricks seems to generate pieces that fly out randomly. This should also advance the RNG. Sorry to be a bother, but I'm not set up to check. Does someone want to?
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Joined: 9/2/2008
Posts: 289
Location: United Kingdom
I wasn't talking about using a Red Mushroom house; that's probably slower (although it says something that it isn't obvious).
I was talking about getting a Mini Mushroom while already being in Mini form, which is another way to get a mini mushroom in the reserve box, and one that's likely to lose a lot less time; you can get two mini mushrooms early quite easily. (Probably world 1 would be the best place to do it.) It's even possible to get a mega mushroom in the reserve box this way, btw; I've done it in realtime, although it's pretty difficult.
Problem is that I do not know any regular stages that contains 2 mini mushrooms, and secondly you have to clear stages to keep the mini-mushroom in reserve. For example if you cleared 3-A as Mini-Mario/Luigi then played through the same stage, getting another mini-mushroom does add it in the reserve slot but you need to complete the stage again to actually keep that item in the slot afterwards.
The only other way is very good manipulation and get it from a Red ? Box/Hammer bro on a regular stage. They never stop at X-Castle stages but do for X-Tower stages.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I'm going to vote meh. I spotted various little improvements here and there, in addition to the ones mentioned by others. While it's true that it overall "looks good", to the trained eye I could see areas for improvement (especially having seen the work of the other NSMB TASers, from the published any% in addition to the 100% WIPs.) I also think that the category is unnecessary... How would this run differ from a 100% run?
Problem is that I do not know any regular stages that contains 2 mini mushrooms, and secondly you have to clear stages to keep the mini-mushroom in reserve. For example if you cleared 3-A as Mini-Mario/Luigi then played through the same stage, getting another mini-mushroom does add it in the reserve slot but you need to complete the stage again to actually keep that item in the slot afterwards.
The only other way is very good manipulation and get it from a Red ? Box/Hammer bro on a regular stage. They never stop at X-Castle stages but do for X-Tower stages.
My basic plan was to get one mini mushroom from a red ? box, and the other from within a stage that you were completing anyway. (You could get both from red ? boxes/Hammer Bros, but that would require doing an entire level, or even multiple levels in some worlds, with the Mini Mushroom; not sure how much time that would lose.)
The manipulation would probably suck, but I imagine it wouldn't lose that much time compared to the amount of time lost fighting world 5's boss with a mini mushroom.
