Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
Lol, not quite :D Thanks for the encouragement!
Dude, this game has got so much TAS potential. I'm getting ideas, left and right, just by watching the current record runs...
I also have a whole lot more respect for platforming. I never thought I could spend upwards of 30-45 min. optimizing a single room. This will be a long-term project, but will be well, well worth it once it's through!
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
WIP #4 is uploaded!
Btw Samsara, I appreciate you creating the WIP encode (and liked the fade-in/fade-out effect you added!).
With more creative use of village NPCs and animals, I was able to hop my way up and over the Axe Magic trees and into the cave holding the Fire Boots! In addition to cutting down an extra return trip to Massan, this should save some time in the Verla Mine by being able to navigate through all the lava without damage-boosting. The Thieve's Cave also turned out very nice, with clean optimizations made, throughout.
Only a half hour in, and there's a lot of cool stuff to do once I enter Mercator (helping the old lady, gambling, etc.). Creative TASing should provide some very interesting solutions, in these places...
edit: Hey guys. I'm thinking about the idea of incorporating a minor speed/entertainment tradeoff, while in the Crypt. Basically, the Crypt consists of a section of 8 cells that each contain a plaque with a riddle on them. You have to read these in order to activate that room's puzzle. The riddles, themselves, offer a hint on how to solve each of the puzzles.
They are all pretty entertaining reads. Some examples are:
Betty stitched a border yellow, red and white. If everything's in order,
everything's all right.Maria was a jealous wife, she threw the pots and pans, I think she even took a
life with a boulder in her hands!Here lies Whodini magician without peer his body was so skinny, he'd turn then
disappear.
At the most, I was thinking of keeping each of the text boxes up for around 100-120 frames, to give the viewer a chance to read them and understand how they correspond to solving the room's puzzle.
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2792
Location: Northern California
ars4326 wrote:
WIP #4 is uploaded!
Btw Samsara, I appreciate you creating the WIP encode (and liked the fade-in/fade-out effect you added!).
I'm encoding this WIP as well (with more fades). I'll edit it into this post once I get it finished and uploaded, which should be about an hour from now.
EDIT: This starts where the previous WIP leaves off:
Link to video
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 | CohostwarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
can't u put the messages on a later scripted encode?they seem interesting though so i'm just suggesting so we have alternate method of preservation
why is this 100%?
EDIT:sorry i just read you doc,bu you should also do the any% LOL
TAS i'm interested:
megaman series: mmbn1 all chips, mmx3 any% psx glitched
fighting games with speed goals in general
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
grassini wrote:
can't u put the messages on a later scripted encode?they seem interesting though so i'm just suggesting so we have alternate method of preservation
Hmmm...I may go with that idea, instead. Simple subtitles could display the riddles while I continue blazing through. I'll definitely think about it.
you should also do the any% LOL
I was just watching the any% again and realized that it looks VERY possible to bypass getting the Death Statue! Simply put, with a little more HP, and possibly some Eke Eke in reserve, Nigel can just run back and get poisoned again by the Red Mushroom. From here, he needs to stay alive long enough to reach the second set of Axe Magic trees in the Mountainous Area; where he'll glitch through again to reach the Lake Shrine.
This makes two significant improvements:
1) There's no longer a need to sit through the forced events in Mercator Castle, as well as spend time setting up inventory for the unique item shop (AT LEAST a 8+minute savings).
2) Having higher HP will be a huge benefit later on in defeating the end-game bosses and elite-level monsters in King Nole's Labyrinth.
Estimated, I could easily see a truly optimized any% run getting as low as 1:05. Heck, with the savings I got so far on the 100%, you might even be able to break the 1-hour mark.
edit: Hold on a sec...I got ahead of myself and overlooked the fact that the first set of Axe Magic trees are still near Greenmaze, lol (got too excited there). *ahem* Anyways, if there's another Red Mushroom prowling around even REMOTELY near the Mountainous Area--that would still save a significant chunk of time over having to sit through the banquet at Mercator Castle. This should really be looked into further...edit 2: Okay, I'm excited and can't stop posting :D It is ABSOLUTELY I strongly believe it is possible to bypass the Death Statue entirely, due to there being a Teleport Tree located at the beginning of the Mountainous Area. In case there are no more Red Mushrooms close by, Nigel can simply teleport back to a prior area, get poisoned again, and return back again. He only needs enough HP/healing items to stay alive.
edit 3 04/2015: I tested out this theory, via frame-advance, in the cave with the Life Stock just before the broken bridge where Zak confronts you. I had a grey mushroom poison Nigel and attempted to reach the set of Axe Trees near Zak's battlefield.
Even using the purple spectres to scale heights quicker, I came nowhere near reaching the trees. As a matter fact, the poison counter timer expired before I even left the screen. Oh well... at least it was worth a test run.
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
Quick update on my end. After conversing on the SDA thread, a fellow runner named Ratfunk brought to my attention a very subtle screen transitioning trick that I wasn't using. Basically, when Nigel transitions from one screen to another, the game will reset his starting position either to the left-hand side or to the right. What this means is, if you exit a screen slightly to the center of either side, the game will automatically move you completely over to that side in the next screen, saving at least 5 frames each time.
There were at least 30 places where I missed using that trick, lol.
So...back to the drawing board for now :)
However, the next WIP (maybe within 2 weeks) will absolutely have Tibor's side-quest completed along with The Crypt. I did a test run in Tibor's level last night, and was able to save significant time over the current any% with use of a few new exploits (hint: those pesky little ghosts jump high!). It barely took me over a minute to finish this dungeon.
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Hi, ars4326! I saw the latest WIP encode. Seems flawless to me. Nice little jump tricks you've got there. I am once again impressed by your big and complex game choice!
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
Thanks, everyone! When it's all said and done, this will be the most ambitious project I've worked on (competing in DTC 5 especially helped improve my TAS skills for this one).
Progress is slower than I anticipated, but I've completed the Swamp Shrine again and am 663 frames (11 sec.) ahead. A huge chunk of that was just improving rooms in the Swamp Shrine, while the rest was fine-tuning a few things in the beginning along with incorporating Ratfunk's screen transitioning trick.
Might be able to chisel off another 200-300 frames before I resync back to the Tibor quest...
edit: Redone/resynced back up to Ryuma, and back on my way toward Tibor. 953 frames saved total, so far. Even the Thieves Cave had rooms that were still improvable.
edit 2: Overlooked a small shortcut near the end of the Thieves Cave. After fixing that and improving a few other rooms, I'm synced back once more. Total frame savings from prior WIP: 1,061.
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
ah the old mummy skip method, what a pain in the ass thing to remember. theres some ball skips as well but in jp version u can do some cool clips to save time and mess around like standing on top of niros head , you could try skiping the garlic text, thou thats slower, but you should be able to ride a mummy in the stair room with them instead of killing them all. all in all its a brutal exuction heavy dungeon with lots going on as u said, cant wait to see tas works.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2792
Location: Northern California
Encode coming later tonight!
I should mention (if only out of personal interest) that the previous WIPs, when converted to .bk2 and played on BizHawk 1.9.1, still sync perfectly fine. I expect this WIP and the completed run to be no different.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 | CohostwarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
I don't waste time opening treasures--the treasures come to me :)
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
oh shoot this reminded me sometimes g bags are solid long enough to be used to be jumped on making a makeshift platform almost anywhere if lucky, This could be tas usefull, esp at the first boss Hammer Guy, should be able to use his gold bag to jump onto healing shoes and possibly get over door, but circumstances could be all over where a makeshift platform would be usefull.
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
RatFunkZ wrote:
oh shoot this reminded me sometimes g bags are solid long enough to be used to be jumped on making a makeshift platform almost anywhere if lucky, This could be tas usefull, esp at the first boss Hammer Guy, should be able to use his gold bag to jump onto healing shoes and possibly get over door, but circumstances could be all over where a makeshift platform would be usefull.
Really...? I could probably even use that on the return trip in that same room, after getting the garlic. Thanks for pointing that out, Ratfunk!
I think there's going to be more and more creative solutions popping in the later game's dungeons (the Lake Shrine, especially, looks interesting).
edit: Hmm. Can't seem to get a gold bag jump to work on the mimic. Maybe you have to time the kill just right?
edit 1: No biggie, afterall! Found a faster method back up the stairs (Mimics jump pretty high, too...).
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
u almost gotta kill the enemy while jumping over it allrdy, its a rare fluke that happens once in a while to me, never been able to purposefully recreate.
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
RatFunkZ wrote:
u almost gotta kill the enemy while jumping over it allrdy, its a rare fluke that happens once in a while to me, never been able to purposefully recreate.
I figured it boiled down to a timing issue, like having the money bag appear just as you're approaching the top ledge of it, as the enemy dies. From my observations, that would make the most sense (and would allow many other shortcuts, also).
It actually reminds me of another anomaly within the game: Occasionally, you can jump and collide against the giant spiked boulders from underneath without taking any damage. It seems to only allow you to do so every other frame, though. I took advantage of it a few times in the Swamp Shrine, and might be able to find a use for it within Mir's Tower, as well.
I also discovered Nigel can, very rarely it seems, also jump off of a smaller spiked boulder without taking damage (I stumbled across this in the Thieves Cave). I'm not sure exactly why the game allows this, either...
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
Loads more content, this time!
Two months in, and almost half the game completed. This will be a treat when it's all said and done :)
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
Shaving frames and cuttin' corners.
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
Verla Mine has been excavated!
Little bit of gold grinding needed to purchase some Life Stock coming up. Otherwise, blazing along!
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
